• Re: Apple needs to explain that bug that resurfaced deleted photos

    From Andrew@21:1/5 to badgolferman on Tue May 21 21:25:12 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    badgolferman wrote on Tue, 21 May 2024 16:31:18 -0000 (UTC) :
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24161152/apple-ios-17-photo-bug

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what happened.

    You'll notice I wrote this when Apple's lie about the bug came out.
    > Apple released a bugfix for the resurfacing old photos
    > (which were never deleted, despite Apple claiming they were)...
    > https://www.macrumors.com/2024/05/20/apple-releases-ios-17-5-1-photos-bug/

    You have to admit it's clever to call it a "database corruption" problem.

    What it really was, was *Apple didn't actually delete the photos*.
    Just like Ashley Madison didn't actually delete users' data either.

    Methinks this is yet another billion-dollar Apple lie ready to be fought
    out in the courts... where Apple only tells the truth when forced to, in
    court.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to badgolferman on Wed May 22 01:20:37 2024
    On 2024-05-21, badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:
    Earlier today, Apple issued a fix in iOS and iPadOS 17.5.1. Patching
    buggy software is a good, normal thing. But that’s not the issue here.
    The issue is that the fix “addresses a rare issue where photos that experienced database corruption could reappear in the Photos library
    even if they were deleted” — and that’s all Apple has to say about it.

    That's enough explanation for me. But then I'm not a gullible rube who
    jumps to incorrect conclusions based on ignorance and unsubstantiated
    rumors.

    On iOS, deleted photos technically spend 30 days in the Recently
    Deleted folder before disappearing for good, but the intent to send a
    photo to digital oblivion is still there. A reasonable person would
    expect a deleted file to stay that way. That’s why it’s understandable that people freaked out last week when photos deleted years ago had
    suddenly reappeared in their iPhone photo library.

    This is obviously a privacy concern.

    Nobody but you has access to your photos. So no.

    You're certainly on form, though badgolferman.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tyrone@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed May 22 03:10:07 2024
    On May 21, 2024 at 12:31:18 PM EDT, ""badgolferman"" <[email protected]> wrote:

    Another post claimed that old photos appeared on an iPad that was sold to another person.

    I call BS on that. If the iPad was fully reset before the sale, that would be impossible. If it really DID happen, then the seller fucked up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Enrico Papaloma@21:1/5 to Tyrone on Wed May 22 05:30:34 2024
    On 5/22/2024 5:10 AM, Tyrone wrote:
    Another post claimed that old photos appeared on an iPad that was sold to
    another person.

    I call BS on that. If the iPad was fully reset before the sale, that would be impossible. If it really DID happen, then the seller fucked up.

    Did the photos that weren't really deleted actually come from the iCloud?
    Or were those undeleted photos coming back from the user's device itself?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Wed May 22 03:28:10 2024
    Jolly Roger wrote on 22 May 2024 01:20:37 GMT :

    That's enough explanation for me. But then I'm not a gullible rube who
    jumps to incorrect conclusions based on ignorance and unsubstantiated
    rumors.

    You have to admit it's clever to call it a "database corruption" problem.

    What it really was, was *Apple didn't actually delete the photos*.
    Just like Ashley Madison didn't actually delete users' data either.

    When Apple was told that they didn't delete the photos, they said "oh
    shit", and then they spent all their energy coming up with the lies.

    Just like they did when they found out that they designed the power
    delivery to shut down the phone when the battery was one year old.

    I can't wait for the billion-dollar lawsuit to arise due to Apple's lies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 22 07:48:18 2024
    Am 22.05.24 um 05:10 schrieb Tyrone:
    On May 21, 2024 at 12:31:18 PM EDT, ""badgolferman"" <[email protected]> wrote:

    Another post claimed that old photos appeared on an iPad that was sold to
    another person.

    I call BS on that. If the iPad was fully reset before the sale, that would be impossible. If it really DID happen, then the seller fucked up.

    +1; Arlen spreads FUD again.

    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 22 07:49:08 2024
    Am 22.05.24 um 05:30 schrieb Enrico Papaloma:
    On 5/22/2024 5:10 AM, Tyrone wrote:
    Another post claimed that old photos appeared on an iPad that was sold to >>> another person.

    I call BS on that. If the iPad was fully reset before the sale, that would be
    impossible. If it really DID happen, then the seller fucked up.

    Did the photos that weren't really deleted actually come from the iCloud?
    Or were those undeleted photos coming back from the user's device itself?

    In both cases the seller would have fucked up.

    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordinator@21:1/5 to Andrew on Wed May 22 21:29:18 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:
    badgolferman wrote on Tue, 21 May 2024 16:31:18 -0000 (UTC) :
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24161152/apple-ios-17-photo-bug

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what happened.

    You'll notice I wrote this when Apple's lie about the bug came out.
    > Apple released a bugfix for the resurfacing old photos
    > (which were never deleted, despite Apple claiming they were)...
    > https://www.macrumors.com/2024/05/20/apple-releases-ios-17-5-1-photos-bug/

    You have to admit it's clever to call it a "database corruption" problem.

    What it really was, was *Apple didn't actually delete the photos*.
    Just like Ashley Madison didn't actually delete users' data either.

    Methinks this is yet another billion-dollar Apple lie ready to be fought
    out in the courts... where Apple only tells the truth when forced to, in court.
    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data loss,
    not undeleting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some desync
    between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were only
    respected in all but one server). I prefer to assume incompetence,
    rather than malice, unless sufficient evidence is provided. The world
    isn't like in the movies where all the execs smoke cigars and laugh at
    how they're going to screw over the customer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Gordinator on Wed May 22 23:04:42 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:
    badgolferman wrote on Tue, 21 May 2024 16:31:18 -0000 (UTC) :
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24161152/apple-ios-17-photo-bug

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely not
    limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did not
    have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to photos that
    were saved to locations other than the photo library (such as the Files
    app), where the Photos app showed the user those photos, users deleted
    them, and they weren't properly deleted from those external locations.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Wed May 22 19:46:10 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:
    badgolferman wrote on Tue, 21 May 2024 16:31:18 -0000 (UTC) :
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24161152/apple-ios-17-photo-bug

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did not
    have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to photos that
    were saved to locations other than the photo library (such as the Files
    app), where the Photos app showed the user those photos, users deleted
    them, and they weren't properly deleted from those external locations.


    We will probably never know what sort of iFuckup it was. Why bother to speculate?

    It's gone now, fixed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Thu May 23 02:24:38 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Hank Rogers wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 19:46:10 -0500 :

    We will probably never know what sort of iFuckup it was. Why bother to speculate?

    It's gone now, fixed.

    The "why bother" matters more that it shows Apple never tests sufficiently.

    There are extremely many cases of Apple forgetting to test entire blocks of code, which Project Zero proved huge swaths of Apple code was never tested.
    <https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
    "The root causes I highlight here are not novel and are often overlooked.
    *We'll see cases of iOS code which seems to have never worked*,
    *iOS code that likely skipped QA or likely had little testing*
    *or no code review before the iOS release was shipped to users*."

    Google easily proved beyond a doubt (which Apple agreed to!) that Apple
    did not & does not test much of the iOS code at all (the Facetime fiasco
    proved it too).

    Apple even re-released the exact same bugs two releases apart, Hank.

    That clearly and obviously shows Apple's QA doesn't even put in place the
    most basic of the simplest regression tests AFTER someone tells Apple about their bugs and they fixed them (which any competent QA group would do).

    What Gordinator said has been proven time and again, where even the VP of Engineering at Apple (Craig Federighi) sent out an internal memo that
    leaked which said the QA organization has been fucking up at Apple for
    years.

    <https://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2016/02/15/what-apple-did-and-didnt-say-about-its-software-quality/>
    <https://www.quiverquant.com/news/Apple%20Prioritizes%20Software%20Stability%20Over%20New%20Features%20in%20Strategic%20Shift>
    <https://www.axios.com/2018/01/30/scoop-apple-delays-ios-features-to-focus-on-reliability-performance-1517278421>


    Looks like that memo from Apple's own Engineering VP didn't fix things.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Andrew on Wed May 22 19:20:25 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-22 19:15, Andrew wrote:
    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data loss,
    not undeleting.

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems and databases work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Gordinator on Thu May 23 02:15:58 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data loss,
    not undeleting.

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen lying.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were only
    respected in all but one server).

    I would agree it's a "bug of some kind", which Apple apparently never
    tested for, and which means likely billions of photos that people thought
    were deleted, were never deleted. Shades of Ashley Madison, is it not.
    <https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/may/14/ashley-madison-netflix-documentary>

    I prefer to assume incompetence,
    rather than malice, unless sufficient evidence is provided.

    Absolutely agree. The very fact the iPhone has multiple times the zero-days
    of Android and more exploits than Android shows a lack of Apple testing.
    (see references in the sig)

    The world
    isn't like in the movies where all the execs smoke cigars and laugh at
    how they're going to screw over the customer.

    Much like Ashley Madison did, Apple only said they deleted the photos.
    Clearly they did not.

    I suspect Apple will lose yet another billion-dollar lawsuit over their
    lies and then simply move on making more lies just as Ashley Madison did.

    Just like Apple always does.
    --
    FACT:
    *Apple only fully supports a single release.*
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
    <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
    <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

    FACT:
    *Apple always has far more exploits than does Android.*
    <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

    FACT:
    *Apple only recently (in iOS 16) started the RSR patch mechanism.*
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

    FACT:
    *Google & Craig Federighi both said Apple QA is lacking in coverage.* <https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
    "The root causes I highlight here are not novel and are often overlooked.
    *We'll see cases of iOS code which seems to have never worked*,
    *iOS code that likely skipped QA or likely had little testing*
    *or no code review before the iOS release was shipped to users*."

    See also many articles proving Apple has always lacked sufficient testing. <https://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2016/02/15/what-apple-did-and-didnt-say-about-its-software-quality/>
    <https://www.quiverquant.com/news/Apple%20Prioritizes%20Software%20Stability%20Over%20New%20Features%20in%20Strategic%20Shift>
    <https://www.axios.com/2018/01/30/scoop-apple-delays-ios-features-to-focus-on-reliability-performance-1517278421>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu May 23 03:30:46 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Alan <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-22 19:15, Andrew wrote:
    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    As a developer, the idea that database corruption couldn't play a huge
    part in something like this is frankly laughable. But then Arlen and his
    little troll gang aren't serious people. They are always looking for any
    excuse they can use to claim Apple: BAD. That's the true extent of their
    logic, and it's as transparent as a pane of glass.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Andrew on Wed May 22 21:38:11 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-22 21:34, Andrew wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 03:30:46 GMT :

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    As a developer, the idea that database corruption couldn't play a huge
    part in something like this is frankly laughable.

    If you don't instantly see right through Apple's bullshit about "database corruption" then that's good reason for me saying you're an Apple zealot.

    Apple simply lied.
    It's not "database corruption"; it's a bug that Apple missed.
    Apple didn't test for it. Apple didn't even find it. For years.

    It's definitely a bug, Arlen...

    ..but it could definitely be database corruption.


    It's standard operating procedure for Apple where Google proved more than *half of the Facetime code had _NEVER BEEN TESTED_ by Apple* when that kid found those bugs which proves that Apple never tests iOS sufficiently.

    Don't you wonder why Apple constantly loses all those expensive lawsuits?

    They don't lose them, Arlen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Thu May 23 04:34:54 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 03:30:46 GMT :

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    As a developer, the idea that database corruption couldn't play a huge
    part in something like this is frankly laughable.

    If you don't instantly see right through Apple's bullshit about "database corruption" then that's good reason for me saying you're an Apple zealot.

    Apple simply lied.
    It's not "database corruption"; it's a bug that Apple missed.
    Apple didn't test for it. Apple didn't even find it. For years.

    It's standard operating procedure for Apple where Google proved more than
    *half of the Facetime code had _NEVER BEEN TESTED_ by Apple* when that kid found those bugs which proves that Apple never tests iOS sufficiently.

    Don't you wonder why Apple constantly loses all those expensive lawsuits?

    Just as Apple paid over a billion dollars when they lied that batteries
    were the cause of only some Apple products (nobody else's & no other Apple products) being secretly throttled after a year (and backdating the release notes secretly and getting caught at that also in separate lawsuits).

    It's standard operating procedure for Apple to get caught in those lies.
    Apple only tells the truth when forced to, in court.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nomen Nescio@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Thu May 23 07:24:02 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Hank Rogers <[email protected]d> wrote in news:v2m3kh$1dtn9$1@dont-
    email.me:

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:
    badgolferman wrote on Tue, 21 May 2024 16:31:18 -0000 (UTC) :
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24161152/apple-ios-17-photo-bug

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely not
    limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did not
    have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to photos that
    were saved to locations other than the photo library (such as the Files
    app), where the Photos app showed the user those photos, users deleted
    them, and they weren't properly deleted from those external locations.


    We will probably never know what sort of iFuckup it was. Why bother to speculate?

    It's gone now, fixed.

    It's not fixed for anybody who suffered harm because of it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nomen Nescio@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu May 23 07:24:02 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in news:v2m959$1icfo$[email protected]:

    On 2024-05-22 19:15, Andrew wrote:
    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    Only a moron would store pictures in a "database".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nomen Nescio@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Thu May 23 08:19:21 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:
    badgolferman wrote on Tue, 21 May 2024 16:31:18 -0000 (UTC) :
    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/20/24161152/apple-ios-17-photo-bug

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    Apple lies about everything.


    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    Undeleted pictures is not exactly data loss.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did not
    have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to photos that
    were saved to locations other than the photo library (such as the Files
    app), where the Photos app showed the user those photos, users deleted
    them, and they weren't properly deleted from those external locations.

    That's what happens companies outsource their programming to India.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Nomen Nescio on Thu May 23 16:09:13 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Nomen Nescio <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in news:v2m959$1icfo$[email protected]:
    On 2024-05-22 19:15, Andrew wrote:
    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    Only a moron would store pictures in a "database".

    You're a clown if you think that. People have been using media
    management software or decades, and virtually all of them utilize
    databases.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Chris on Thu May 23 16:13:50 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely
    not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did
    not have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to
    photos that were saved to locations other than the photo library
    (such as the Files app), where the Photos app showed the user those
    photos, users deleted them, and they weren't properly deleted from
    those external locations.

    Got a source for that? Or is it wild speculation in your front?

    Not speculation. Many people affected have posted about it - and some
    weren't even using iCloud. And I have friends who work at Apple. Also
    others have posted about this on social media. It's relatively well
    known at this point.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Andrew on Thu May 23 16:08:02 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 03:30:46 GMT :

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's
    brazen lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    As a developer, the idea that database corruption couldn't play a
    huge part in something like this is frankly laughable.

    If you don't instantly see right through Apple's bullshit about
    "database corruption" then that's good reason for me saying you're an
    Apple zealot.

    Projection. There is no evidence Apple lied, and it's certainly possible
    (even probable) that database issues would cause these symptoms. The
    only zealot here is you, and you're also the liar here. You're
    projecting your own weaknesses, as usual.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Nomen Nescio on Thu May 23 16:11:11 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Nomen Nescio <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    Apple lies about everything.

    Another unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely
    not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    Undeleted pictures is not exactly data loss.

    Doesn't change my point.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did
    not have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to
    photos that were saved to locations other than the photo library
    (such as the Files app), where the Photos app showed the user those
    photos, users deleted them, and they weren't properly deleted from
    those external locations.

    That's what happens companies outsource their programming to India.

    Apple doesn't do that either.

    You're just talking out of your ass, as usual.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Thu May 23 18:19:30 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 16:13:50 GMT :

    It's relatively well known at this point.

    What you need to know is only that Apple simply forgot to delete them. Otherwise, how could they come back, even years later, Jolly Roger?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Thu May 23 18:17:54 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 16:08:02 GMT :

    it's certainly possible
    (even probable) that database issues would cause these symptoms

    It's even more likely that Apple simply forgot to delete them.
    Especially since the pictures were _always_ there, Jolly Roger.

    Think about that.

    Apple never deleted them.
    Apple lied that they were deleted.

    For years, Apple lied.
    And then, suddenly, there was a "database corruption".

    And they showed up.
    Think about that, Jolly Roger.

    Apple might lose yet another billion dollar lawsuit for these new lies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Andrew on Thu May 23 11:21:52 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23 11:19, Andrew wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 16:13:50 GMT :

    It's relatively well known at this point.

    What you need to know is only that Apple simply forgot to delete them. Otherwise, how could they come back, even years later, Jolly Roger?

    Again, how could that be what's happening...

    ...unless it was happening to every iPhone?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Andrew on Thu May 23 11:19:37 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23 11:17, Andrew wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 16:08:02 GMT :

    it's certainly possible
    (even probable) that database issues would cause these symptoms

    It's even more likely that Apple simply forgot to delete them.
    Especially since the pictures were _always_ there, Jolly Roger.

    Think about that.

    Apple never deleted them.
    Apple lied that they were deleted.

    If that were true, you simpleton, then EVERY SINGLE iPHONE would show
    this behaviour.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Andrew on Thu May 23 22:54:01 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 16:08:02 GMT :

    it's certainly possible (even probable) that database issues would
    cause these symptoms

    It's even more likely that Apple simply forgot to delete them.

    Nonsense. No evidence suggests that.

    Especially since the pictures were _always_ there, Jolly Roger.

    The images in question were saved outside of the photo library, and a
    bug caused them not to be deleted in their external location yet be
    hidden from view inside of the Photos application.

    Apple lied that they were deleted.

    Obscure bugs don't equate to lies, little Arnie.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Chris on Thu May 23 22:57:31 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-23, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what
    happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely
    not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some
    desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests were
    only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did
    not have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to
    photos that were saved to locations other than the photo library
    (such as the Files app), where the Photos app showed the user those
    photos, users deleted them, and they weren't properly deleted from
    those external locations.

    Got a source for that? Or is it wild speculation in your front?

    Not speculation. Many people affected have posted about it - and some
    weren't even using iCloud. And I have friends who work at Apple. Also
    others have posted about this on social media. It's relatively well
    known at this point.

    A simple "no" would have sufficed.

    I'm not sorry that more detailed explanations hurt your trollish
    sensibilities.

    The article here and the reddit thread about it both mention icloud and
    don't mention Files so it isn't "relatively well known".

    No. This happened to users who did not use iCloud for photo storage.
    Only users who saved images outside of the photo library were affected.

    Are you actually suggesting articles and Reddit posters are never wrong? Laughable.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From danny burstein@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 23 23:58:12 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    [snip]

    I suspect, without hacing any information beyond
    the public claims, that the photos were never actually deleted, but
    the indexing included a flag saying "do NOT show these
    to the owner".



    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    [email protected]
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Thu May 23 23:52:39 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 22:54:01 GMT :

    It's even more likely that Apple simply forgot to delete them.

    Nonsense. No evidence suggests that.

    Years ago, the pictures were supposedly deleted.
    Now with this recent update, those "deleted" pictures resurface.

    There's no other logical conclusion other than they weren't deleted.

    Especially since the pictures were _always_ there, Jolly Roger.

    The images in question were saved outside of the photo library, and a
    bug caused them not to be deleted in their external location yet be
    hidden from view inside of the Photos application.

    Well then. You agree. The images weren't deleted.
    Thank you for agreeing with logic and sense.

    HINT: No other conclusion was possible, but for you to agree with logic is
    a huge step forward, Jolly Roger.


    Apple lied that they were deleted.

    Obscure bugs don't equate to lies...

    It's a brazen (but rather clever) Apple lie that a 'data corruption'
    suddenly brought back photos, exactly as they were prior to "deletion", JR.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Andrew on Fri May 24 00:48:20 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-23, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 22:54:01 GMT :

    It's even more likely that Apple simply forgot to delete them.

    Nonsense. No evidence suggests that.

    Years ago, the pictures were supposedly deleted. Now with this recent update, those "deleted" pictures resurface.

    There's no other logical conclusion other than they weren't deleted.

    Nobody claimed the files weren't deleted, little Arlen. The claim you
    made was "Apple lied".

    The images in question were saved outside of the photo library, and a
    bug caused them not to be deleted in their external location yet be
    hidden from view inside of the Photos application.

    Apple lied that they were deleted.

    Obscure bugs don't equate to lies...

    It's a brazen (but rather clever) Apple lie that a 'data corruption'

    Nope. Sorry. By your idiotic measure, all bugs are lies, which is
    ridiculous on its face. Your trolls are as weak as your intellect,
    little Arlen.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nomen Nescio@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Fri May 24 03:12:03 2024
    XPost: alt.checkmate, alt.usenet.kooks

    In article <[email protected]>
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2024-05-23, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 22:54:01 GMT :

    It's even more likely that Apple simply forgot to delete them.

    Nonsense. No evidence suggests that.

    Years ago, the pictures were supposedly deleted. Now with this recent update, those "deleted" pictures resurface.

    There's no other logical conclusion other than they weren't deleted.

    Nobody claimed the files weren't deleted, little Arlen. The claim you
    made was "Apple lied".

    The images in question were saved outside of the photo library, and a
    bug caused them not to be deleted in their external location yet be
    hidden from view inside of the Photos application.

    Apple lied that they were deleted.

    Obscure bugs don't equate to lies...

    It's a brazen (but rather clever) Apple lie that a 'data corruption'

    Nope. Sorry. By your idiotic measure, all bugs are lies, which is
    ridiculous on its face. Your trolls are as weak as your intellect,
    little Arlen.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    Yawn.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to danny burstein on Fri May 24 02:28:41 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    danny burstein wrote on Thu, 23 May 2024 23:58:12 -0000 (UTC) :

    I suspect, without hacing any information beyond
    the public claims, that the photos were never actually deleted, but
    the indexing included a flag saying "do NOT show these
    to the owner".

    Very likely. The images are, by all accounts, EXACTLY pristinely the exact
    same as the images that were "supposed" to be deleted as far back as 2010. https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/15/ios_deleted_photos/

    That means for almost fifteen years, this bug has existed on Apple devices which is causing pictures to be pristine but not to show up - until now.

    For Apple to claim that a pristine photo resurfacing without corruption is, somehow, "database corruption" stretches incredularity to epic levels.

    Nobody but a fool would believe a "database corruption" caused a decade-old photo to re-emerge unscathed by, well, by database corruption.

    Only Apple can come up with a lie that brazen & expect to get away with it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Fri May 24 02:21:13 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 22:57:31 GMT :

    I'm not sorry that more detailed explanations hurt your trollish sensibilities.

    Like a Christian who doesn't understand why people are worked up about
    Priests sodomizing kids, you don't understand when people are worked up
    about Apple's lies.

    The "database corruption" is nothing more or less than another Apple lie.
    Let's hope Apple loses another billion dollar lawsuit over Apple's lies.

    The article here and the reddit thread about it both mention icloud and
    don't mention Files so it isn't "relatively well known".

    No. This happened to users who did not use iCloud for photo storage.
    Only users who saved images outside of the photo library were affected.

    Are you actually suggesting articles and Reddit posters are never wrong? Laughable.

    Apparently the photos reappeared from at least 2010, Jolly Roger. https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/15/ios_deleted_photos/

    If this is true, that means Apple hasn't found this bug in over a decade.
    Which is pretty bad, don't you think?

    Almost fifteen years of photos have been resurfacing, Jolly Roger.
    It's not a "database corruption" when the photos are completely intact.

    It's nothing more than yet another brazen Apple lie.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wilf@21:1/5 to Andrew on Fri May 24 10:10:39 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 24/05/2024 at 03:21, Andrew wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 22:57:31 GMT :

    I'm not sorry that more detailed explanations hurt your trollish
    sensibilities.

    Like a Christian who doesn't understand why people are worked up about Priests sodomizing kids, you don't understand when people are worked up
    about Apple's lies.

    The "database corruption" is nothing more or less than another Apple lie. Let's hope Apple loses another billion dollar lawsuit over Apple's lies.

    The article here and the reddit thread about it both mention icloud and
    don't mention Files so it isn't "relatively well known".

    No. This happened to users who did not use iCloud for photo storage.
    Only users who saved images outside of the photo library were affected.

    Are you actually suggesting articles and Reddit posters are never wrong?
    Laughable.

    Apparently the photos reappeared from at least 2010, Jolly Roger. https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/15/ios_deleted_photos/

    If this is true, that means Apple hasn't found this bug in over a decade. Which is pretty bad, don't you think?

    Almost fifteen years of photos have been resurfacing, Jolly Roger.
    It's not a "database corruption" when the photos are completely intact.

    It's nothing more than yet another brazen Apple lie.

    I don;t know if this is the same thing, but I have noticed for some
    years the occasional old photos appearing on my rarely used iPad. They
    are easy to spot because I move all my photos to other media and then
    delete them on my iPhone so those deleted should disappear everywhere
    after 30 days.

    --
    Wilf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Chris on Fri May 24 15:28:28 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-24, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-23, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-23, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-22, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 21/05/2024 22:25, Andrew wrote:

    I said the same thing, which is Apple cleverly lied about what >>>>>>>> happened.

    That's an unsubstantiated claim.

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to
    data loss, not undeleting.

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is
    definitely not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    That being said, it's most likely a bug of some kind (maybe some >>>>>>> desync between multiple iCloud servers where deletion requests
    were only respected in all but one server).

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who
    did not have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related
    to photos that were saved to locations other than the photo
    library (such as the Files app), where the Photos app showed the
    user those photos, users deleted them, and they weren't properly
    deleted from those external locations.

    Got a source for that? Or is it wild speculation in your front?

    Not speculation. Many people affected have posted about it - and
    some weren't even using iCloud. And I have friends who work at
    Apple. Also others have posted about this on social media. It's
    relatively well known at this point.

    A simple "no" would have sufficed.

    I'm not sorry that more detailed explanations hurt your trollish
    sensibilities.

    The article here and the reddit thread about it both mention icloud
    and don't mention Files so it isn't "relatively well known".

    No. This happened to users who did not use iCloud for photo storage.
    Only users who saved images outside of the photo library were
    affected.

    That's not the case

    It is the case. Numerous people who don't use iCloud Photos have
    reported this issue - a few examples:

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1csk9v1/comment/l45gsyi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button>

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1csk9v1/comment/l48oefz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button>

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1csk9v1/comment/l46nkxg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button>

    There are more reports like this as anyone who bothers to look can see.

    the examples from the ElReg article

    Those examples are very limited, and the author drew incorrect
    conclusions based on ignorance.

    Are you actually suggesting articles and Reddit posters are never wrong?

    I'm actually showing some evidence. You're simply asserting unsupported claims.

    See above. Now you have evidence that disputes your iCloud claim. Let's
    see if you change your position or just double down on the dumb claim
    you made.

    I'm suggesting you're wrong.

    No I'm not wrong. This is not an iCloud issue. It's an issue where
    database corruption caused photos not to be deleted in the file system
    under certain circumstances yet be hidden in the Photos app as if they
    were actually deleted:

    ---
    Hello everybody,

    I may or may not know somebody who is a Private Contractor @ Apple, and
    they may have or may not have given me an explanation on the current
    situation.

    (When referring to the “Files” app in this post please also note that
    this also can means the local filesystem/file storage.)

    This glitch affects “deleted” photos, primarily causing them to reappear after a user updates their iPhone to iOS 17.5. Let’s clear up a few
    simple things first:

    No, Apple is NOT permanently saving all of your photos to a remote
    server without your knowledge. This also means they are NOT spying on
    you. No, this glitch more than likely isn't a backdoor into
    iCloud/iPhones. Your device and cloud data is mostly secure. Now how
    are the deleted photos “reappearing” after being deleted? This is
    because almost every case of this incident happening which Apple has investigated has been caused by the photo(s) being deleted from the
    Photos app but NOT the Files app. They are two separa
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Chris on Fri May 24 18:01:47 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-24, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2024-05-24, Chris <[email protected]> wrote:

    I'm suggesting you're wrong.

    No I'm not wrong. This is not an iCloud issue. It's an issue where
    database corruption caused photos not to be deleted in the file
    system under certain circumstances yet be hidden in the Photos app

    Certainly sounds plausible, but how would a 10-yo photo be
    resurrected? I guess it's possible, but unlikely, that the phone is 10
    years old.

    When iPhone users upgrade to a new model, they very often transfer their
    data from the old device to the new one with an automated process. This includes the data from the apps they have installed, which includes
    their photo library.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Wilf on Sat May 25 10:43:57 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-24 09:10:39 +0000, Wilf said:
    On 24/05/2024 at 03:21, Andrew wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 23 May 2024 22:57:31 GMT :

    I'm not sorry that more detailed explanations hurt your trollish
    sensibilities.

    Like a Christian who doesn't understand why people are worked up about
    Priests sodomizing kids, you don't understand when people are worked up
    about Apple's lies.

    The "database corruption" is nothing more or less than another Apple lie.
    Let's hope Apple loses another billion dollar lawsuit over Apple's lies.

    The article here and the reddit thread about it both mention icloud and >>>> don't mention Files so it isn't "relatively well known".

    No. This happened to users who did not use iCloud for photo storage.
    Only users who saved images outside of the photo library were affected.

    Are you actually suggesting articles and Reddit posters are never wrong? >>> Laughable.

    Apparently the photos reappeared from at least 2010, Jolly Roger.
    https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/15/ios_deleted_photos/

    If this is true, that means Apple hasn't found this bug in over a decade.
    Which is pretty bad, don't you think?

    Almost fifteen years of photos have been resurfacing, Jolly Roger.
    It's not a "database corruption" when the photos are completely intact.

    It's nothing more than yet another brazen Apple lie.

    I don;t know if this is the same thing, but I have noticed for some
    years the occasional old photos appearing on my rarely used iPad. They
    are easy to spot because I move all my photos to other media and then
    delete them on my iPhone so those deleted should disappear everywhere
    after 30 days.

    Yep, it's nothing new, nor even restricted to photos. When installing
    OS updates on our iPad, we sometimes get deleted apps reappearing.

    It's not even restricted to Apple devices. It's simply a by-product of
    two things happening:

    1. The way computers / devices "delete" files. Unless you use
    a separate deletion app to specificlly over-write the file,
    few operating systems actually delete a file. They simply
    mark the drive space as now being 'empty' so that it can be
    reused by new files. The file's data is actually still
    there until the space does get re-used, which may be a long
    time. This can be handy if you accidentally delete a file
    since you can use a recovery app to retrieve it (just don't
    use the drive before that). It's also why you're meant to
    properly erase a device before selling it or disposing of it.

    2. Update post-install system check. After an operating system
    update, most devices will do a check of the drives, which in
    the case of a corrupted system file catalogue / database, can
    cause that catalogue to be re-created or retrieved from an
    internal OS backup catalogue ... meaning a "deleted" file can
    sometime no longer be marked as "empty" space. This is also
    useful since a corrupted catalogue file could otherwise mean
    losing ALL your files (and then watch the whiners complain!).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordinator@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 25 23:02:30 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    Correct. This is Hanlon's Razor.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

    Thanks for putting face to name for me. I knew it was a well-documented phenomenon, and I'd heard of it somewhere, but I didn't know its name. I
    think I'll bookmark it just in case.

    The amount of effort and coordination to achieve such a scenario make it impossible. Ever tried getting more than a couple of important people on
    the same Zoom call? It takes months.

    I think people use the 'smoky exec room' argument to find a reason to be
    so angry at everything. It's a way to mis-attribute all of life's
    problems by suggesting someone else is pulling the strings. In a way,
    it's a way of giving up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordinator@21:1/5 to Nomen Nescio on Sat May 25 23:03:50 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 23/05/2024 06:24, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in news:v2m959$1icfo$[email protected]:

    On 2024-05-22 19:15, Andrew wrote:
    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    Only a moron would store pictures in a "database".

    What do you think a filesystem is? A database of course. Also,
    bog-standard SQL databases are more than capable of holding files. It's
    a bad idea, since SQL isn't designed with that in mind, but if SQL can
    do it, surely more specialised software has been created in the past.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordinator@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 25 23:11:56 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server


    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely not
    limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    Undeleted pictures is not exactly data loss.


    Maybe not, but it doesn't change the fact that the data was corrupted
    somehow.


    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did not
    have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to photos that
    were saved to locations other than the photo library (such as the Files
    app), where the Photos app showed the user those photos, users deleted
    them, and they weren't properly deleted from those external locations.

    That's what happens companies outsource their programming to India.


    Bad code isn't a result of outsourcing, but rather poor maintenance
    practice. A lack of proper or consistent testing, high employee turnover leading to nobody with real code-base familiarity, technical debt, and
    more can all make a code-base harder to maintain and buggy.

    I know better than to accuse an Internet stranger of bigotry, but it
    does sound like you're jumping to conclusions based on prejudice.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to badgolferman on Sat May 25 21:59:15 2024
    On 2024-05-21, badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:

    Earlier today, Apple issued a fix in iOS and iPadOS 17.5.1. Patching
    buggy software is a good, normal thing.i

    Yes, it is. Here's what we now know about this bug that Apple fixed:

    First, it's important to realize numerous people who don't use iCloud
    Photos have reported this issue - a few examples:

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1csk9v1/comment/l45gsyi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button>

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1csk9v1/comment/l48oefz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button>

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1csk9v1/comment/l46nkxg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button>

    There are more reports like this as anyone who bothers to look can see.

    For anyone reading along, this is *not* an iCloud issue. It's an issue
    where database corruption caused photos not to be deleted in the file
    system under certain circumstances yet be hidden in the Photos app as if
    they were actually deleted:

    ---
    Hello everybody,

    I may or may not know somebody who is a Private Contractor @ Apple, and
    they may have or may not have given me an explanation on the current
    situation.

    (When referring to the ‚"Files, app" in this post please also note that
    this also can means the local file system / file storage.)

    This glitch affects ‚deleted‚ photos, primarily causing them to reappear after a user updates their iPhone to iOS 17.5. Let's clear up a few
    simple things first:

    No, Apple is NOT permanently saving all of your photos to a remote
    server without your knowledge. This also means they are NOT spying on
    you. No, this glitch more than likely isn't a backdoor into
    iCloud/iPhones. Your device and cloud data is mostly secure. Now how
    are the deleted photos ‚reappearing‚ after being deleted? This is
    because almost every case of this incident happening which Apple has investigated has been caused by the photo(s) being deleted from the
    Photos app but NOT the Files app. They are two separ
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Gordinator on Sat May 25 22:17:06 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-25, Gordinator <[email protected]> wrote:

    Actually, database corruption can take many forms and is definitely
    not limited to data loss the way you are suggesting.

    Undeleted pictures is not exactly data loss.


    Maybe not, but it doesn't change the fact that the data was corrupted somehow.

    The issue is not related to iCloud since it affected users who did
    not have their photos stored in iCloud. The issue is related to
    photos that were saved to locations other than the photo library
    (such as the Files app), where the Photos app showed the user those
    photos, users deleted them, and they weren't properly deleted from
    those external locations.

    That's what happens companies outsource their programming to India.


    Bad code isn't a result of outsourcing, but rather poor maintenance
    practice. A lack of proper or consistent testing, high employee
    turnover leading to nobody with real code-base familiarity, technical
    debt, and more can all make a code-base harder to maintain and buggy.

    Luckily, most of those issues can be addressed (and are) by competent development teams (ask me how I know). Naturally, it takes more work and
    time (expense) - but it can be significantly reduced.

    I know better than to accuse an Internet stranger of bigotry, but it
    does sound like you're jumping to conclusions based on prejudice.

    Little doubt there.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Gordinator on Sun May 26 12:37:36 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.privacy.anon-server

    On 2024-05-25 22:03:50 +0000, Gordinator said:
    On 23/05/2024 06:24, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in news:v2m959$1icfo$[email protected]:
    On 2024-05-22 19:15, Andrew wrote:
    Gordinator wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 21:29:18 +0100 :

    It's probably not database corruption, as that would lead to data
    loss, not undeleting.

    That depends on the exact nature of the corruption and / or whether or
    not the sytem has some process to use a backup version of the database
    if it detects the corruption or has issue loading the current version.



    I would agree with you that it's not corruption. It's Apple's brazen
    lying.

    Then you demonstrate your profound ignorance of how computer systems
    and databases work.

    Only a moron would store pictures in a "database".

    *ALL* photo / image cataloguing systems are just database apps -
    including Apple Photos, Android Gallery, Adobe Lightroom, the old
    clipart CD-ROM browsers, etc. Some store a link to the image file, some
    store thumbnails of the images with a link to the proper file, while
    others store the proper images themselves. It just depends on how the
    developer decided to implement their app and each approach has its own
    pros and cons.



    What do you think a filesystem is? A database of course. Also,
    bog-standard SQL databases are more than capable of holding files. It's
    a bad idea, since SQL isn't designed with that in mind, but if SQL can
    do it, surely more specialised software has been created in the past.

    Yep. Every file system uses some form of cataloguing database to know
    where the files are on the storage drive, at the very least.

    Proper database apps like FileMaker Pro and Access have specific field
    types for storing images or videos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Stickers@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 26 22:12:19 2024
    XPost: alt.checkmate, alt.dev.null, alt.lies

    % wrote:

    William Stickers wrote:
    William Stickers wrote:

    % wrote:

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2024-05-25, % <[email protected]> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2024-05-24, % <[email protected]> wrote:
    Andrew wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote on 24 May 2024 15:33:04 GMT :

    He will now cite lawsuits where *both sides settled* claiming that >>>>>>>>> must mean "Apple lost them".

    Nobody pays a billion dollars in penalties when they're not guilty, >>>>>>>> JR.

    i wouldn't

    You'll never be able to, twit.

    sure i could , slapnutts

    Yes, trolling on Usenet 24/7 is definitely how you become a billionaire. >>>> ?

    no silly first you win the lottery like i did

    Do lottery winners receive GST credit?

    <http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%
    3CosudnXZgxaqcRJj7nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d%40giganews.com%3E>

    "The goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax (GST/HST) credit is a tax-free
    quarterly payment that helps individuals and families with low and modest >> incomes offset the GST or HST that they pay"

    <https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/goods-
    services-tax-harmonized-sales-tax-gst-hst-credit.html>

    Lottery winners don't live on hand outs.

    Counsellors don't need to live on hand outs.

    Locked-in, good fer nuffing shitbags, they need hand outs.

    I like telling Fat Dave the truth, it shows how stoopid he is.


    none of the above applies to me ,
    and you spelled counselors wrong ,
    i'm sure if there was one here they'd tell you

    You have said that you are a lottery winner, that you got a three hundred dollar GST credit and that you are a counsellor, so it all applies to you and I spell counsellor the English way. Americans spell it with one L.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)