iPhone users in the EU next year will be able to download apps hosted
outside of Apple's official App Store to comply with European regulations, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

Otherwise known as sideloading, the change coming sometime in the first
half of 2024 will allow customers to download apps without needing to use
the App Store, which will mean developers won't need to pay Apple's 15 to
30 percent fees.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

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On 11/13/2023 6:19 AM, badgolferman wrote:

iPhone users in the EU next year will be able to download apps hosted
outside of Apple's official App Store to comply with European regulations, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

Otherwise known as sideloading, the change coming sometime in the first
half of 2024 will allow customers to download apps without needing to use
the App Store, which will mean developers won't need to pay Apple's 15 to
30 percent fees.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

More localization of models.

Already you have non-U.S. models that did not have the physical SIM slot decontented, Chinese models with two physical SIM slots, U.S. models
with 5G mmWave that non-U.S. models lack.

For a while it appeared that Apple was trying to reduce the number of
different SKUs.

What happens if a U.S. resident buys an iPhone in the EU? Besides losing
mmWave 5G, what are the downsides? I know that Apple has the option to
deny warranty service, in the U.S., for non-U.S. iPhones but do they
actually do this? Nikon is adamant about not servicing non-U.S. camera equipment in the U.S., even paid repairs, while Canon will usually
repair non-U.S. equipment even under warranty (I've personally
experienced this).

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

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badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote

iPhone users in the EU next year will be able to download apps hosted
outside of Apple's official App Store to comply with European regulations, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

Otherwise known as sideloading, the change coming sometime in the first
half of 2024 will allow customers to download apps without needing to use
the App Store, which will mean developers won't need to pay Apple's 15 to
30 percent fees.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

Hi badgolferman, (and any other adults on this newsgroup),

Important information which is not in that article is provided below,
which indicates that it's not going to be sideloading like we think of it.

It's going to be a special kind of highly restricted "Apple loading".
Just watch...

BTW, I always wondered why they gave it its own name of "side loading" when every consumer operating system except iOS does it as a "normal thing".

Given every operating system does it except iOS, it should more accurately
be called "normal loading" (or something like that), don't you think?

Anyway, based only on what I've read, the "sideloading" allowance will have gotchas such as it will only be allowed for "approved" apps and it will
only be allowed in the countries that are forcing Apple to be open, etc.

Also, the benefit, as I see it, isn't to developers, per se, as almost all developers of Android apps who allow "normal loading" also are in the
Google Play Store - so the macrumors article, I think, misses the point.

Note that this is the fact whether or not people understand this fact:
a. Most functionality on a phone comes from the developers, not the OEM;
b. Apple severely restricts the functionality the developers can have;
c. Google & Microsoft can't.

In that light, do you see the problem with what Apple is planning to do?
I do.

What I find disturbing is the news just parrots without thinking about it.
What Apple is going to implement isn't "side loading" but "Apple loading".

Which isn't the same thing as what Android (or Microsoft) allows users.
--
My role on the child-like Apple newsgroups is to provide an adult view.

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Wally J wrote:

badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote

iPhone users in the EU next year will be able to download apps
hosted outside of Apple's official App Store to comply with
European regulations, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

Otherwise known as sideloading, the change coming sometime in the
first half of 2024 will allow customers to download apps without
needing to use the App Store, which will mean developers won't
need to pay Apple's 15 to 30 percent fees.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

Hi badgolferman, (and any other adults on this newsgroup),

Important information which is not in that article is provided below,
which indicates that it's not going to be sideloading like we think
of it.

It's going to be a special kind of highly restricted "Apple loading".
Just watch...

BTW, I always wondered why they gave it its own name of "side
loading" when every consumer operating system except iOS does it as a
"normal thing".

Given every operating system does it except iOS, it should more
accurately be called "normal loading" (or something like that), don't
you think?

Anyway, based only on what I've read, the "sideloading" allowance
will have gotchas such as it will only be allowed for "approved" apps
and it will only be allowed in the countries that are forcing Apple
to be open, etc.

Also, the benefit, as I see it, isn't to developers, per se, as
almost all developers of Android apps who allow "normal loading" also
are in the Google Play Store - so the macrumors article, I think,
misses the point.

Note that this is the fact whether or not people understand this fact:
a. Most functionality on a phone comes from the developers, not the
OEM; b. Apple severely restricts the functionality the developers can
have; c. Google & Microsoft can't.

In that light, do you see the problem with what Apple is planning to
do? I do.

What I find disturbing is the news just parrots without thinking
about it. What Apple is going to implement isn't "side loading" but
"Apple loading".

Which isn't the same thing as what Android (or Microsoft) allows
users.

You're right in the respect that Apple doesn't reach the level of an
open platform such as Google or Microsoft, but in the context of
Apple's business model this is a big deal. Now they won't be able to
charge 30% fees to developers of programs. And there's a potential for developers to create new content for iOS users. It's just another
small crack developing in the walled garden where some sunlight can get through.

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badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote

You're right in the respect that Apple doesn't reach the level of an
open platform such as Google or Microsoft, but in the context of
Apple's business model this is a big deal. Now they won't be able to
charge 30% fees to developers of programs.

Hi badgolferman,

It's always good to converse with someone who can think using critical
thought processes, as I will agree with any sensible statement you make.

In terms of this being a "big deal" to Apple, I definitely fully agree.

It's tremendously big deal for Apple given it's the major difference
between the iPhone and iOS (that Steve's document doesn't even mention).

And there's a potential for developers to create new content for iOS users.

Again, I will easily agree with any sensible statement, where at first I
would have disagreed with the statement above but you caveated it with the
use if "potential" so I can't disagree that a small crack will soon open.

However...

While on Android (and Windows), the developers can create "new content", we have no indication from Apple that "new content" will be allowed, do we?

All we know, so far, is that "old content" can be found in "two places".
That's not the same thing as "new content" by a long shot.

Apple will still drastically restrict what developers can do, I'm sure.

Which means we really should not refer to it as "side loading" but some
other term that indicates it's a special "Apple way" of restricting you.

It's just another
small crack developing in the walled garden where some sunlight can get through.

Nobody sensible would disagree (but I'm sure the iKooks will find a way to claim that "nobody wants that" and that it's "not needed" - although with nospam on vacation, we haven't heard that from the Alan Browne, Alan Baker,
and Jolly Roger iTrolls on this thread yet).

No matter what excuse Apple gives for anything it restricts, the real
reason is that Apple's money-making strategy is to control your next move.

Like a game of chess, Apple blocks you from doing what you can do on every other operating system (although so does Chrome & Windows-S, but I've
converted Windows S to Windows 10 Home in minutes so that's not hard).

That's the key point...

Apple 'claims' it's for privacy but then I can give you plenty of examples where there is no privacy on an iPhone (e.g., no tor browser is possible).

So it's not about privacy. Or security.
Anyone saying so doesn't know the first thing about the lack of security
and privacy on the iPhone compared to the other similar operating systems.

In summary, I agree that it is a crack, and that it's a potentially big
deal; but the problem is that it will almost certainly be implemented in a highly restrictive "Apple way" (much like 'democracy' is implemented in
Belarus or Russia and any other country that acts much like Apple does).
--
My role on the Apple newsgroups is to be the voice if a sentient adult.

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sms <[email protected]> wrote

More localization of models.

Steve is correct that the first implementation of "Apple loading" will be
only for the few countries that forced Apple to be a bit more open to them.

Already you have non-U.S. models that did not have the physical SIM slot decontented, Chinese models with two physical SIM slots, U.S. models
with 5G mmWave that non-U.S. models lack.
For a while it appeared that Apple was trying to reduce the number of different SKUs.

Regarding Apple strategy on reducing SKU's and EU-versus-USA models...

Steve usually has a better handle on what an iPhone really is since he
thinks outside of Apple marketing, and I commend Steve for having written
his document which shows many of the differences between Android and iOS.

The main fact Steve's document is missing is the fundamental design of iOS.
a. Most functionality on a phone comes from the developers, not the OEM;
b. Apple severely restricts the functionality the developers can have;
c. Google & Microsoft can't.

There is no bigger difference between iOS and every other OS, but that.

What happens if a U.S. resident buys an iPhone in the EU? Besides losing mmWave 5G, what are the downsides? I know that Apple has the option to
deny warranty service, in the U.S., for non-U.S. iPhones but do they
actually do this? Nikon is adamant about not servicing non-U.S. camera equipment in the U.S., even paid repairs, while Canon will usually
repair non-U.S. equipment even under warranty (I've personally
experienced this).

Let's bear in mind two fundamental facts that exist today:
a. What people call sideloading is "normal loading" for other systems
b. What Apple will implement is _not_ going to be "normal loading"

I need to stress this point because normal loading benefits the user.
This "Apple loading", even as scripted by the law, benefits developers.

What I'm saying here is the whole point of "normal loading" is _not_ to
save the developers the 30% fee they pay to Apple or to Google or M$.

The normal loading is there to benefit consumers.
By giving consumers apps that the motherships won't give them.

I suspect very strongly, and remember, you heard it here first because this will come up in the next few years, that "Apple loading" will be nothing
like "normal loading" is today.

Do you know what Apple loading will be like?
I think I do.

It will be some version of a "highly restrictive" loading that won't
benefit consumers (or developers) as much as "normal loading" does.
--
To understand Apple is to be able to predict what Apple will do tomorrow.

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On 11/13/2023 11:53 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

You're right in the respect that Apple doesn't reach the level of an
open platform such as Google or Microsoft, but in the context of
Apple's business model this is a big deal. Now they won't be able to
charge 30% fees to developers of programs. And there's a potential for developers to create new content for iOS users. It's just another
small crack developing in the walled garden where some sunlight can get through.

I can't imagine the U.S. Congress following the lead of the EU.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-11-13 08:56, Wally J wrote:

badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote

iPhone users in the EU next year will be able to download apps hosted
outside of Apple's official App Store to comply with European regulations, >> according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

Otherwise known as sideloading, the change coming sometime in the first
half of 2024 will allow customers to download apps without needing to use
the App Store, which will mean developers won't need to pay Apple's 15 to
30 percent fees.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

Hi badgolferman, (and any other adults on this newsgroup),

Important information which is not in that article is provided below,
which indicates that it's not going to be sideloading like we think of it.

It's going to be a special kind of highly restricted "Apple loading".
Just watch...

BTW, I always wondered why they gave it its own name of "side loading" when every consumer operating system except iOS does it as a "normal thing".

Given every operating system does it except iOS, it should more accurately
be called "normal loading" (or something like that), don't you think?

Who is "they" supposed to be: Apple? Because they didn't give it that name:

'The term "sideload" was coined in the late 1990s by online storage
service i-drive as an alternative means of transferring and storing
computer files virtually instead of physically.'

It's SIDEloading in contrast to DOWNloading.

Anyway, based only on what I've read, the "sideloading" allowance will have gotchas such as it will only be allowed for "approved" apps and it will
only be allowed in the countries that are forcing Apple to be open, etc.

Bullshit.

I bet you can't cite anything you've read to support that assertion.

(BTW, I've always wondered why the "man" who only posts "facts", so
often posts things that are clearly only assertions.)

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