Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly
missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event
last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's
new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply
5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request
for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-09-21 18:15, badgolferman wrote:

Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event
last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply
5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

...nothing...

...burger.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Alan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2023-09-21 18:15, badgolferman wrote:

Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly
missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event
last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's >> new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its
supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which
resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply >> 5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects
iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last
year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal
reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request >> for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

...nothing...

...burger.

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-21 19:30, badgolferman wrote:

Alan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2023-09-21 18:15, badgolferman wrote:

Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly
missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event >>> last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's >>> new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its
supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which >>> resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply >>> 5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects >>> iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last
year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal >>> reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request >>> for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

...nothing...

...burger.

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

1. I severely doubt the "billions".

2. Who says it's been wasted? You're just assuming that they're going to
throw out all the work they've done? Or is it far more likely that
they'll just switch to their own chip a year or two later?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

badgolferman wrote:

Alan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2023-09-21 18:15, badgolferman wrote:

Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly
missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event >>> last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's >>> new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its
supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which >>> resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply >>> 5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects >>> iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last
year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal >>> reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request >>> for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

...nothing...

...burger.

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

Nuh-uh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-21 18:15, badgolferman wrote:

Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event
last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply
5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

'First, the timeline just doesn’t add up. We’re supposed to believe not just that Apple was only testing the feasibility of a modem chip for the iPhones 15 “late last year”, but also that the chip “was so big it would take up half an iPhone, making it unusable”. It’s true that a modem chip that “takes up half an iPhone” would be unusable, but so why would such
a chip even be considered for possible use in this year’s phones? It
could be the best-functioning 5G modem in the world — faster performance and more efficient — and it simply couldn’t be used if it were that big.
It’s not even close. Look at the teardown from an iPhone 14 to see how
small Qualcomm’s X65 modem chipsets are.'

<https://daringfireball.net/2023/09/craptacular_is_more_like_it>

'Here’s where the Journal’s story starts to smell like a planted
narrative from Qualcomm. We can’t know that Qualcomm is behind this, but
we do know that Qualcomm threw shade at Apple’s modem efforts with a
press release about a renewed deal between the companies the day before
the iPhone announcement event. How better to follow that up than a new
story painting a picture of technical ineptitude and managerial chaos
inside Apple’s modem team, set to appear the day before the iPhones 15
hit customers’ hands? This narrative especially suits Qualcomm if
they’re concerned about their own engineering talent defecting.

“Just because Apple builds the best silicon on the planet, it’s
ridiculous to think that they could also build a modem,” said former
Apple wireless director Jaydeep Ranade, who left the company in 2018,
the year the project began.'

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:

Alan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2023-09-21 18:15, badgolferman wrote:

Apple may have unveiled the new iPhone 15 but the phones are reportedly
missing a silicon chip the company spent years developing.

The Wall Street Journal reported that Apple spent billions of dollars
trying to develop the chips in time for the phone's rollout, but was
delayed by obstacles mainly of its own making.

Apple launched the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro at its "Wonderlust" event >>> last week. The release has been hotly anticipated, but some of the phone's >>> new features have failed to impress some fans.

Apple had been trying to develop the chip to reduce its reliance on its
supplier, Qualcomm, the Journal reported.

In 2019, Apple and Qualcomm announced a six-year license agreement, which >>> resulted in the end of a legal row between the two companies.

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to supply >>> 5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects >>> iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests last
year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal >>> reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's request >>> for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

...nothing...

...burger.

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

It's not wasted. It's development and not everything works first time. You
can guarantee they'll learn and improve.

Apple have a >$150 cash mountain. A few billion spent over a few years is
of little consequence.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-21 21:33, Alan wrote:

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal to
supply
5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that connects
iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new phones, tests
last
year found the chip to be prone to overheating and too slow, the Journal
reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to Insider's
request
for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

It does show that while doing "digital" (Apple Silicon) has turned out
to be Apple's best, quiet payoff over the past 10+ years, doing RF is a
whole other banana with the complex modulation cell networks have
evolved to.

In the end intel may be chuckling at kissing off a big chunk of their
modem business to Apple for a sweet billion... and intel continue to
work in the 5G field in any case.

We'll see if Apple make it for the iPhone 16 (by whatever name).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Alan Browne wrote:

On 2023-09-21 21:33, Alan wrote:

The FT reported earlier this month that Qualcomm extended a deal
to supply 5G modems for Apple's smartphones.

Although Apple planned to have its own modem chip — tech that
connects iPhones to wireless carriers — ready in time for the new >>>phones, tests last year found the chip to be prone to
overheating and too slow, the Journal reported.

Representatives for Apple did not immediately respond to
Insider's request for comment, made outside normal working hours.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

Big...

It does show that while doing "digital" (Apple Silicon) has turned
out to be Apple's best, quiet payoff over the past 10+ years, doing
RF is a whole other banana with the complex modulation cell networks
have evolved to.

In the end intel may be chuckling at kissing off a big chunk of their
modem business to Apple for a sweet billion... and intel continue to
work in the 5G field in any case.

We'll see if Apple make it for the iPhone 16 (by whatever name).

I for one am glad my iPhone 14 has a Qualcomm modem. I would rather
have proven technology than brand new/cutting edge/bug ridden/new kid
on the block technology. Maybe that's why I drive Toyotas rather than
Teslas.

--
"What's right is what's left if you do everything wrong." ~ Robin
Williams

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On 2023-09-22 01:36, Alan wrote:

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

'First, the timeline just doesn’t add up. We’re supposed to believe not just that Apple was only testing the feasibility of a modem chip for the iPhones 15 “late last year”, but also that the chip “was so big it would
take up half an iPhone, making it unusable”. It’s true that a modem chip that “takes up half an iPhone” would be unusable, but so why would such
a chip even be considered for possible use in this year’s phones? It
could be the best-functioning 5G modem in the world — faster performance
and more efficient — and it simply couldn’t be used if it were that big.
It’s not even close. Look at the teardown from an iPhone 14 to see how small Qualcomm’s X65 modem chipsets are.'

Iterative process. If you can make that large chip and it meets the requirements then you're on the path to the smaller chip. But it takes
time. RF does not scale as easily as digital.

Complex modulation RF is hard.

<https://daringfireball.net/2023/09/craptacular_is_more_like_it>

'Here’s where the Journal’s story starts to smell like a planted narrative from Qualcomm. We can’t know that Qualcomm is behind this, but
we do know that Qualcomm threw shade at Apple’s modem efforts with a
press release about a renewed deal between the companies the day before
the iPhone announcement event. How better to follow that up than a new
story painting a picture of technical ineptitude and managerial chaos
inside Apple’s modem team, set to appear the day before the iPhones 15
hit customers’ hands? This narrative especially suits Qualcomm if
they’re concerned about their own engineering talent defecting.

“Just because Apple builds the best silicon on the planet, it’s ridiculous to think that they could also build a modem,” said former

Avoids the fact that when Apple bought a chunk of modem business from
intel, it came with 2,200 employees, labs, equipment, patents, etc.

It is true that complex RF is exceeding difficult - but in time, Apple
will get there.

Apple wireless director Jaydeep Ranade, who left the company in 2018,
the year the project began.'

Bitter fellow. Yes, stinks of a plant. That said, Apple acquired a
good chunk of intel's modem business and assets in July 2019. 4 years
later and no production ready modem is a bit disappointing.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

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On 9/21/2023 8:15 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-15-missing-chip-the-company-spent-billions-on-2023-9

No one really expected the Apple 5G modem to be ready for the iPhone 15.
The prediction is 2026 for the iPhone 18 or 2027 for the iPhone 19.
Developing a modem chip is much more difficult than developing a CPU or
GPU. If it's ready for the iPhone 17 in 2025 then that would be a bonus.

Also, remember, that a standalone 5G modem is not the real goal, the
goal is to do what Qualcomm, Samsung, and MediaTek have done and
integrate the modem into the Bionic. That makes the thermal issues even
more difficult to solve.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 9/21/2023 9:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

It's not wasted. Independence from Qualcomm for one of the most
expensive chips in the phone is the long term goal and it requires an
enormous investment that will eventually pay off. Purchasing Intel's
modem business was intended to jump-start development. The idea that the
Apple modem was expected to be in production for the iPhone 15 is
ludicrous, you can't develop such a complex chip so fast.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

sms <[email protected]> wrote

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

It's not wasted. Independence from Qualcomm for one of the most
expensive chips in the phone is the long term goal and it requires an enormous investment that will eventually pay off. Purchasing Intel's
modem business was intended to jump-start development. The idea that the Apple modem was expected to be in production for the iPhone 15 is
ludicrous, you can't develop such a complex chip so fast.

Apple has _never_ designed a best-in-class chip in its entire history.


Hell, Apple can't even _integrate_ an existing modem into the SOC.


Why would anyone think Apple could best Qualcomm at 5G modem design?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 19:49:34 -0400, Wally J wrote:

sms <[email protected]> wrote

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

It's not wasted. Independence from Qualcomm for one of the most
expensive chips in the phone is the long term goal and it requires an
enormous investment that will eventually pay off. Purchasing Intel's
modem business was intended to jump-start development. The idea that the
Apple modem was expected to be in production for the iPhone 15 is
ludicrous, you can't develop such a complex chip so fast.

Apple has _never_ designed a best-in-class chip in its entire history.

Hell, Apple can't even _integrate_ an existing modem into the SOC.

Why would anyone think Apple could best Qualcomm at 5G modem design?

We can always hope for a miracle from Apple in San Diego, can't we?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-09-22 16:49, Wally J wrote:

sms <[email protected]> wrote

Billions of wasted dollars are nothing to you?

It's not wasted. Independence from Qualcomm for one of the most
expensive chips in the phone is the long term goal and it requires an
enormous investment that will eventually pay off. Purchasing Intel's
modem business was intended to jump-start development. The idea that the
Apple modem was expected to be in production for the iPhone 15 is
ludicrous, you can't develop such a complex chip so fast.

Apple has _never_ designed a best-in-class chip in its entire history.

All of the Apple processors have been at or very near the best in their class...

Hell, Apple can't even _integrate_ an existing modem into the SOC.

Why would anyone think Apple could best Qualcomm at 5G modem design?

...and you have claimed Apple doesn't actually design chips, so what
would you know about any of this?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 9/22/2023 6:51 PM, Patrick wrote:

<snip>

We can always hope for a miracle from Apple in San Diego, can't we?

It won't take a miracle, it will take multiple silicon revisions before
they can have a device with acceptable performance. Each revision of a
device takes months, and costs millions of dollars.

While Apple has designed multiple best-in-class CPUs, building a
cellular modem that can support all the different variations of LTE and
5G is enormously complex.

The Apple modem doesn't have to perform as good as a Qualcomm modem.
Apple sold phones with the Intel modem which didn't perform as well as
the Qualcomm modem, and they throttled the Qualcomm modem to keep
performance about the same, at least in terms of speed.

The bigger goal is to integrate their own modem into the Bionic chip but
first they need to get a standalone modem working.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)