On 2023-05-27, Ant <[email protected]> wrote:
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are
upside down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at the
bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he
get them? What ones do you recommend?
No, just turn the plug over to match and plug it in, silly.
Often (but not always), upside down outlets indicate that that particular outlet can be controlled with a switch on the wall.
(Some electricians consider the upside down orientation to be saferbecause with a right-side up orientation if the two prongs at the top
are exposed and someone or something touches them, it could present a dangerous electrical hazard. But others argue that with the upside down orientation if gravity or some other force pulls the plug down and out
of the outlet the ground connection will be lost, presenting its own electrical hazard. Both are good points.)
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are upside down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at the bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he get
them? What ones do you recommend?
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are upside down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at the bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he get them? What ones do you recommend?
Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon.
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are
upside down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at the
bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he
get them? What ones do you recommend?
Ant <[email protected]> wrote:
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are upside
down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at the bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he get
them? What ones do you recommend?
Are you joking? Or are you high?
Why not just go with the easy solution of turning the house upside down?
Then all the sockets will be “correct”.
On 2023-05-27 12:52, Bob Campbell wrote:
Are you joking? Or are you high?
Not enough choices there ...?
Why not just go with the easy solution of turning the house upside down?
Then all the sockets will be “correct”.
Because the roof is too pointed and it won't stand up?
Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2023-05-27 12:52, Bob Campbell wrote:
Are you joking? Or are you high?
Not enough choices there ...?
True, but I think it covers the most obvious.
Why not just go with the easy solution of turning the house upside down? >>> Then all the sockets will be “correct”.
Because the roof is too pointed and it won't stand up?
Don’t need a roof on the bottom. Chop it off and it will be flat. The “roof” is now the concrete slab.
All of which is still better than doing something completely crazy like plugging in your charger upside down. Because - obviously - it’s from Apple and it does not like upside down electricity.
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
In article <%FqcM.3701371$[email protected]>, Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote:
No, just turn the plug over to match and plug it in, silly.
Doesn't even need to do that - Apple power adaptors are not polarized.
the duckheads aren't, however, the power cord is, with a ground pin.
No, just turn the plug over to match and plug it in, silly.
Doesn't even need to do that - Apple power adaptors are not polarized.
UPC (Unneeded Pedantic Clarification): in a home, the neutral and ground
are common in the breaker box (main panel) closest to the main breaker
to assure breaker operation when there is a hot short to ground
appliance case.
In "downstream" breaker boxes (sub panels) the neutral should not be
grounded but pass through back to the first breaker panel. Breaker
panels have a separate "ground" bonding strip and a "neutral" bonding
strip for this reason (both insulated from the case). You connect them together only in the first breaker box (main panel). This is to assure
that the ground is never "floated" to some voltage above ground 0 voltage.
The neutral at a single phase transformer should be grounded to earth
whether via the transformer case and ground or neutral to ground connection.
The u-shape hole is for the ground.
The ground wire goes directly into the ground.
Usually clamped to a copper stake at the outside cold water pipe.
Normally it's bare copper wire in the box.
For most things, reversing the plug on a polarized or non polarized device >> won't matter in terms of operation or safety - but it could in some cases.
Pretty much anything that doesn't have its own power switch can have
polarity free plugs. But if it has a switch, it's important to isolate
the hot to the input to the power switch. Thus if there is a mechanical fault somewhere in the appliance and the switch is off, the hot will
likely not touch a metal part resulting in a shock hazard. Better: 3
prongs with grounding to the appliance case.
Doesn't even need to do that - Apple power adaptors are not polarized.
the duckheads aren't, however, the power cord is, with a ground pin.
This is an iphone group. So the common iPhone power adapter cube is
simply two blades of equal width.
Ant <[email protected]> wrote
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
Each of the three slots is different.
Depending on the outlet, one slot is often smaller than the other.
That's for the hot wire.
The hot wire usually comes directly off the transformer on the power pole. Normally it's black (in a non-three-way switched configuration) in the box.
The larger slot is for the neutral wire.
It usually comes directly off the pole transformer centertap.
Which usually is grounded within a few power poles.
Normally it's white (in a directly wired configuration) in the box.
The u-shape hole is for the ground.
The ground wire goes directly into the ground.
Usually clamped to a copper stake at the outside cold water pipe.
Normally it's bare copper wire in the box.
For most things, reversing the plug on a polarized or non polarized device won't matter in terms of operation or safety - but it could in some cases.
Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote
UPC (Unneeded Pedantic Clarification): in a home, the neutral and ground
are common in the breaker box (main panel) closest to the main breaker
to assure breaker operation when there is a hot short to ground
appliance case.
I understand what you're saying but for people like the OP who won't, we should distinguish between the neutral and the ground because the ground NEVER carries current (except when there is a momentary fault) while the neutral ALWAYS carries current when a load is plugged into the receptacle.
So they're quite different.
To put that in simpler terms for the OP, I would never touch the hot
(black) wire, and I'd stay away from the neutral (white) wire if I can, but
I wouldn't have any qualms about touching the ground (bar) wire in the box.
In "downstream" breaker boxes (sub panels) the neutral should not be
grounded but pass through back to the first breaker panel. Breaker
panels have a separate "ground" bonding strip and a "neutral" bonding
strip for this reason (both insulated from the case). You connect them
together only in the first breaker box (main panel). This is to assure
that the ground is never "floated" to some voltage above ground 0 voltage. >>
The neutral at a single phase transformer should be grounded to earth
whether via the transformer case and ground or neutral to ground connection.
Still, that doesn't change that the ground is usually connected to the
ground at the water pipe entrance to the home (or via a long stake).
The neutral doesn't run into the ground until it gets to at least the transformer (which might not be on the pole directly next to the house).
For the OP though, the simplest distinction between the neutral (white) and the ground (bare) is that the neutral is expected to be carrying current while the ground (bare) isn't expected to be carrying any current normally.
The hot wire (black) is always carrying current (unless it's red).
The u-shape hole is for the ground.Pretty much anything that doesn't have its own power switch can have
The ground wire goes directly into the ground.
Usually clamped to a copper stake at the outside cold water pipe.
Normally it's bare copper wire in the box.
For most things, reversing the plug on a polarized or non polarized device >>> won't matter in terms of operation or safety - but it could in some cases. >>
polarity free plugs. But if it has a switch, it's important to isolate
the hot to the input to the power switch. Thus if there is a mechanical
fault somewhere in the appliance and the switch is off, the hot will
likely not touch a metal part resulting in a shock hazard. Better: 3
prongs with grounding to the appliance case.
Even better is GCFI. :->
But all this is too deep for the OP I would think.
We have to assume whoever made the appliance gave the OP the right plug.
For the OP, the two slots are different but if the plug doesn't have different sized blades, it usually won't matter how it's plugged in.
To further simplify the decision for the OP, if the plug does have
different sized blades (the hot will always be smaller than the neutral),
or if it has a ground pin, you can't plug it in wrong anyway.
So you're covered by the manufacturer.
His question was so funny, that all the above is amusing.
On 2023-05-27 12:17, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-05-27, Ant <[email protected]> wrote:
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades
holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are
upside down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at
the bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he
get them? What ones do you recommend?
No, just turn the plug over to match and plug it in, silly.
Doesn't even need to do that - Apple power adaptors are not polarized.
I was thinking of funnier replies (such as dead links to Amazon) but
you sucked the gas out of the balloon, alas.
In article <%FqcM.3701371$[email protected]>, Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote:
No, just turn the plug over to match and plug it in, silly.
Doesn't even need to do that - Apple power adaptors are not polarized.
the duckheads aren't, however, the power cord is, with a ground pin.
On 2023-05-27, Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2023-05-27 12:17, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-05-27, Ant <[email protected]> wrote:
In most places in North America, the socket on the wall has two blades >>>> holes at the top, and a round hole at the bottom.
My client just moved into a new house and most of the sockets are
upside down. The round hole is at the top and the blade holes at
the bottom.
Does my client need to buy special adapters for this? Where can he
get them? What ones do you recommend?
No, just turn the plug over to match and plug it in, silly.
Doesn't even need to do that - Apple power adaptors are not polarized.
I was thinking of funnier replies (such as dead links to Amazon) but
you sucked the gas out of the balloon, alas.
Sorry. At least others jumped in to refill it!.
On 2023-05-27 17:09, Walter Jones wrote:
Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote
UPC (Unneeded Pedantic Clarification): in a home, the neutral and ground >>> are common in the breaker box (main panel) closest to the main breaker
to assure breaker operation when there is a hot short to ground
appliance case.
I understand what you're saying but for people like the OP who won't, we
should distinguish between the neutral and the ground because the ground
NEVER carries current (except when there is a momentary fault) while the
neutral ALWAYS carries current when a load is plugged into the receptacle. >>
So they're quite different.
In a balanced load 240V circuit, there isn't even a neutral wire.
(Think electric water heater where the white and black are opposite
120's (240VAC). This is a balanced load, so no neutral wire is needed).
But there is the "unbalanced" load version of this ... below[AAA].
To put that in simpler terms for the OP, I would never touch the hot
(black) wire, and I'd stay away from the neutral (white) wire if I can, but >> I wouldn't have any qualms about touching the ground (bar) wire in the box.
The "apparent" neutral can be quite energized.
A light switch
downstream of a light receptacle: the white is hot on the return from
the switch. The electrician _should_ wrap black tape around the white
at each end to mark it as potentially hot (energized) which it is when
the switch is closed (aka "on").
And of course, above, in the balanced load 240A case, the white and
black are both energized.
In "downstream" breaker boxes (sub panels) the neutral should not be
grounded but pass through back to the first breaker panel. Breaker
panels have a separate "ground" bonding strip and a "neutral" bonding
strip for this reason (both insulated from the case). You connect them
together only in the first breaker box (main panel). This is to assure
that the ground is never "floated" to some voltage above ground 0 voltage. >>>
The neutral at a single phase transformer should be grounded to earth
whether via the transformer case and ground or neutral to ground connection.
Still, that doesn't change that the ground is usually connected to the
ground at the water pipe entrance to the home (or via a long stake).
The neutral doesn't run into the ground until it gets to at least the
transformer (which might not be on the pole directly next to the house).
False. The neutral and ground are tied together in the first breaker
box in the house. This is code everywhere in North America.
That they are also connected at the xformer is also required. This is
more a supply side issue, but part of the safety system tying ground to neutral.
For the OP though, the simplest distinction between the neutral (white) and >> the ground (bare) is that the neutral is expected to be carrying current
while the ground (bare) isn't expected to be carrying any current normally. >>
The hot wire (black) is always carrying current (unless it's red).
Dangerous things to say. First off don't say "carrying current". Say energized (or hot). 'cause the voltage can be there with 0 current (no load).
Most dangerous: [AAA]
The red (and black) could both be energized: my kitchen sockets for
example have a red tied to the hot of the top socket and black to the
hot of the bottom socket (with the tab between them snipped out.
Thus I
can run a toaster and a kettle from one socket with no issues. (2 x 15A
@ 120VAC). (Double 15A breaker tied together). The neutral is of
course common for each socket - and is absolutely required because the
load is unbalanced - the difference in current goes 'down' the neutral.
The hot (black) might not be energized if it is downstream of a light
switch.
For the OP, the two slots are different but if the plug doesn't have
different sized blades, it usually won't matter how it's plugged in.
Exactly.
To further simplify the decision for the OP, if the plug does have
different sized blades (the hot will always be smaller than the neutral),
or if it has a ground pin, you can't plug it in wrong anyway.
So you're covered by the manufacturer.
His question was so funny, that all the above is amusing.
Stay safe, think thrice, measure twice, cut once.
Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote
On 2023-05-27 17:09, Walter Jones wrote:
Alan Browne <[email protected]> wrote
UPC (Unneeded Pedantic Clarification): in a home, the neutral and ground >>>> are common in the breaker box (main panel) closest to the main breaker >>>> to assure breaker operation when there is a hot short to ground
appliance case.
I understand what you're saying but for people like the OP who won't, we >>> should distinguish between the neutral and the ground because the ground >>> NEVER carries current (except when there is a momentary fault) while the >>> neutral ALWAYS carries current when a load is plugged into the receptacle. >>>
So they're quite different.
In a balanced load 240V circuit, there isn't even a neutral wire.
(Think electric water heater where the white and black are opposite
120's (240VAC). This is a balanced load, so no neutral wire is needed).
You know this better than I do as I only know it from wiring my own outlets and switches and incandescent-to-LED ceiling fixture replacements from time to time.
I would have thought a 240V circuit was two hots in a typical two-phase
home, not one hot & one neutral. But I concede you know it better than me.
But there is the "unbalanced" load version of this ... below[AAA].
To put that in simpler terms for the OP, I would never touch the hotThe "apparent" neutral can be quite energized.
(black) wire, and I'd stay away from the neutral (white) wire if I can, but >>> I wouldn't have any qualms about touching the ground (bar) wire in the box. >>
Yes. I know it well. I've had at times had to troubleshoot with a Fluke why there was 80VAC on a neutral in a box I was replacing the switch for. There should be no voltage on an open neutral I think, but it can be there, which is how why I contrasted it the way I did for the OP who doesn't know this.
A light switch
downstream of a light receptacle: the white is hot on the return from
the switch. The electrician _should_ wrap black tape around the white
at each end to mark it as potentially hot (energized) which it is when
the switch is closed (aka "on").
I didn't know this. I would try to put a light switch before an outlet (if
I could) so I wouldn't have expected a switch to be downstream an outlet.
And of course, above, in the balanced load 240A case, the white and
black are both energized.
Your use of "energized" is a better term than mine of "current" as there won't be current until you touch it (oh, you'll know if it's energized!).
In "downstream" breaker boxes (sub panels) the neutral should not be
grounded but pass through back to the first breaker panel. Breaker
panels have a separate "ground" bonding strip and a "neutral" bonding
strip for this reason (both insulated from the case). You connect them >>>> together only in the first breaker box (main panel). This is to assure >>>> that the ground is never "floated" to some voltage above ground 0 voltage. >>>>
The neutral at a single phase transformer should be grounded to earth
whether via the transformer case and ground or neutral to ground connection.
Still, that doesn't change that the ground is usually connected to the
ground at the water pipe entrance to the home (or via a long stake).
The neutral doesn't run into the ground until it gets to at least the
transformer (which might not be on the pole directly next to the house).
False. The neutral and ground are tied together in the first breaker
box in the house. This is code everywhere in North America.
I looked this up as in my home, the big fat inch or so wide aluminum black-with-yellow-stripe neutral goes to the transformer which happens to
be on a pole two poles away from my home.
I don't see any connection at my mains breaker box between the neutral and the ground, but Wikipedia says there are three ways to wire such things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_and_neutral >
"Neutral is usually connected to ground (earth) at the main electrical [ this !!! ]
panel, street drop, or meter, and also at the final step-down transformer
of the supply[citation needed]."
That says citation needed so it may or may not be correct though.
That they are also connected at the xformer is also required. This is
more a supply side issue, but part of the safety system tying ground to
neutral.
I guess that's why I always see a ground wire heading down the pole under a wooden or plastic cove molding into the ground under every transformer
pole.
For the OP though, the simplest distinction between the neutral (white) and >>> the ground (bare) is that the neutral is expected to be carrying current >>> while the ground (bare) isn't expected to be carrying any current normally. >>>
The hot wire (black) is always carrying current (unless it's red).
Dangerous things to say. First off don't say "carrying current". Say
energized (or hot). 'cause the voltage can be there with 0 current (no
load).
Yes. Energized is correct. It will only carry current when you touch it.
Most dangerous: [AAA]
The red (and black) could both be energized: my kitchen sockets for
example have a red tied to the hot of the top socket and black to the
hot of the bottom socket (with the tab between them snipped out.
I defer to your knowledge and experience as I've only seen the red wire
when I was surprised in replacing a switch that turned out to be a three
way. I hadn't known there was a red until then although sometimes I've seen blue wires in German electrical cords that I had to put new plugs on.
Thus I
can run a toaster and a kettle from one socket with no issues. (2 x 15A
@ 120VAC). (Double 15A breaker tied together). The neutral is of
course common for each socket - and is absolutely required because the
load is unbalanced - the difference in current goes 'down' the neutral.
That difference in current goes down the neutral was the sentiment I was trying to convey to the OP that a neutral was like a ground in some ways,
but in that way it's more like the hot wire than it is like a ground wire.
The hot (black) might not be energized if it is downstream of a light
switch.
Yes. But when the switch is turned on that hot wire will be energized.
The neutral (we hope) will not but I'm sure you check with the buzzer or
neon light to be safe, just like I do to check which wires are energized.
For the OP, the two slots are different but if the plug doesn't have
different sized blades, it usually won't matter how it's plugged in.
Exactly.
I agree that the best answer probably for the OP who isn't responding is
that a polarized plug fits only one way and if it's not polarized it shouldn't matter how you plug it in.
To further simplify the decision for the OP, if the plug does have
different sized blades (the hot will always be smaller than the neutral), >>> or if it has a ground pin, you can't plug it in wrong anyway.
So you're covered by the manufacturer.
His question was so funny, that all the above is amusing.
I think the question was reasonable for someone who has never wired a
socket or switch or outlet as they would never have needed to know this.
Stay safe, think thrice, measure twice, cut once.
I don't think I've ever met an older man who hasn't wired an outlet or switch, but the OP's question indicates that there are people who haven't done it. You've obviously thought about it a lot more than I have.
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