Bolton: Trump has effectively surrendered to Putin in Ukraine
negotiations

John Bolton, who served as national security adviser in President
Donald Trump's first administration, says that President Trump
'effectively surrendered' to Vladimir Putin in the lead up to
negotiations over the fate of Ukraine.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/12/politics/video/john-bolton-trump-putin-ukraine-russia-negotiations-digvid

No sweat off of T-Borg's balls...

AI Overview - Appeasement was Britain's policy of making concessions
to Nazi Germany in the 1930s to avoid war. The policy is most
associated with British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain

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On Wed, 12 Feb 2025, JAB wrote:

Bolton: Trump has effectively surrendered to Putin in Ukraine
negotiations

Nonsense. So Trump has never changed his mind and pretended things he said
or did never happened?

This is called tactics and negotiation.

He is basically forcing europes hand. He couldn't care less about the
outcome or what he said. The only thing he is fishing after is a peace
prize.

Europe should decide to give him a peace prize if he restores Ukraines
borders, then he would do it. ;)

John Bolton, who served as national security adviser in President
Donald Trump's first administration, says that President Trump
'effectively surrendered' to Vladimir Putin in the lead up to
negotiations over the fate of Ukraine.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/12/politics/video/john-bolton-trump-putin-ukraine-russia-negotiations-digvid

No sweat off of T-Borg's balls...

AI Overview - Appeasement was Britain's policy of making concessions
to Nazi Germany in the 1930s to avoid war. The policy is most
associated with British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain

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D wrote:

Europe should decide to give him a peace prize if he restores
Ukraines borders, then he would do it. ;)

I doubt Ukraine's [pre-2014] borders will be restored in our
life time.

Ukraine hasn't been able to do it militarily, so whatever way
the negotiations go - if they happen - they will inevitably
involve a trade of some land for peace.... regardless of what
European political leaders might say.

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On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 13:06:09 GMT, Blueshirt wrote:

D wrote:

Europe should decide to give him a peace prize if he restores
Ukraines borders, then he would do it. ;)

I doubt Ukraine's [pre-2014] borders will be restored in our
life time.

Ukraine hasn't been able to do it militarily, so whatever way
the negotiations go - if they happen - they will inevitably
involve a trade of some land for peace.... regardless of what
European political leaders might say.

That worked so well with the Sudetenland.

--
-c

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On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 13:06:09 GMT, "Blueshirt" <[email protected]>
wrote:

if they happen - they will inevitably
involve a trade of some land for peace

if they happen

WSJ
Vance Wields Threat of Sanctions, Military Action - Vice President JD
Vance said Thursday that the U.S. would hit Moscow with sanctions and potentially military action if Russian President Vladimir Putin won't
agree to a peace deal with Ukraine that guarantees Kyiv's long-term independence.

Other Issue - US spends money on Ukraine war, which T-Borg wants for a corps/wealthily tax cut.

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Creon wrote:

On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 13:06:09 GMT, Blueshirt wrote:

D wrote:

Europe should decide to give him a peace prize if he
restores Ukraines borders, then he would do it. ;)

I doubt Ukraine's [pre-2014] borders will be restored in our
life time.

Ukraine hasn't been able to do it militarily, so whatever way
the negotiations go - if they happen - they will inevitably
involve a trade of some land for peace.... regardless of what
European political leaders might say.

That worked so well with the Sudetenland.

I didn't say it will work well!

But it would be fairly delusional to think that Russia will ever
give up the Crimea which is the home base of their Black Sea
Fleet (Sevastopol)... and has been for centuries.

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On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, Blueshirt wrote:

D wrote:

Europe should decide to give him a peace prize if he restores
Ukraines borders, then he would do it. ;)

I doubt Ukraine's [pre-2014] borders will be restored in our
life time.

Ukraine hasn't been able to do it militarily, so whatever way
the negotiations go - if they happen - they will inevitably
involve a trade of some land for peace.... regardless of what
European political leaders might say.

Don't be so negative. If russia collapses as it usually does a few times
per century, then there will be ample opportunity to rush in, when russia
is in complete disarray.

If the country crashes financially, and the IMF lords step in, there's
plenty of leverage that way too.

I'm very positive that all will be well!

Oh, and Putin might also die within a decade or so, that is also a key
moment!

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D wrote:

On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, Blueshirt wrote:

D wrote:

Europe should decide to give him a peace prize if he
restores Ukraines borders, then he would do it. ;)

I doubt Ukraine's [pre-2014] borders will be restored in our
life time.

Ukraine hasn't been able to do it militarily, so whatever way
the negotiations go - if they happen - they will inevitably
involve a trade of some land for peace.... regardless of what
European political leaders might say.

Don't be so negative.

I call it being realistic. The US and Europe are not going to
pump money in to 'defending' Ukraine forever. Those billions
could be spent elsewhere, and if trade wars break out, they will
become much needed billions!

If I was putting money on it, I'd go with a de-militarised
buffer zone (DMZ) - similar to the one between Iraq and Kuwait,
or on Cyprus - being the outcome along the border... with Ukraine
in NATO.

Don't ask me what year that will be though!

If russia collapses as it usually does a few times
per century, then there will be ample opportunity to
rush in, when russia is in complete disarray.

Good luck with that one.

If the country crashes financially, and the IMF lords step in,
there's plenty of leverage that way too.

I'm very positive that all will be well!

Oh, and Putin might also die within a decade or so, that is
also a key moment!

Well, Vladimir Putin won't live forever so there will be a
change at the top one day! We've all been waiting for the news
to break that Putin has fallen from a Kremlin balcony, but that
doesn't look like it's happening any time soon...

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On Sat, 15 Feb 2025, Blueshirt wrote:

Don't be so negative.

I call it being realistic. The US and Europe are not going to

I call it being negative.

pump money in to 'defending' Ukraine forever. Those billions
could be spent elsewhere, and if trade wars break out, they will
become much needed billions!

They could finish the war in a couple of months. The combined military power of the EU and the US would crush russia quickly. The fact that they haven't means that the defence sectors are earning enormous amounts at the moment, and are probably bribing the politicians to prolong the war as much as possible. So politicians and defense getting richer, and the rest they don't really care about.

I can see no other explanation for the drawn out conflict.

If I was putting money on it, I'd go with a de-militarised
buffer zone (DMZ) - similar to the one between Iraq and Kuwait,
or on Cyprus - being the outcome along the border... with Ukraine
in NATO.

Could be used as a strategic pause, then russia will steamroll the baltics, and we'll have us a nice little northern european war, or ukraine will take back its
borders and Putin will be executed.

Don't ask me what year that will be though!

My bet is within 1-3 years or so.

If russia collapses as it usually does a few times
per century, then there will be ample opportunity to
rush in, when russia is in complete disarray.

Good luck with that one.

Worked brilliantly when the soviet union fell. Plenty of countries got their freedom, and the standard of living for the western eastern european countries is far surpassing that of russia.

The communists took over after the Tsar. As I said, has been done before, and will happen again. Dicatorships crumble quickly.

If the country crashes financially, and the IMF lords step in,
there's plenty of leverage that way too.

I'm very positive that all will be well!

Oh, and Putin might also die within a decade or so, that is
also a key moment!

Well, Vladimir Putin won't live forever so there will be a
change at the top one day! We've all been waiting for the news
to break that Putin has fallen from a Kremlin balcony, but that
doesn't look like it's happening any time soon...

This is the truth! This will happen unexpectedly. I wonder why Ukraine haven't yet succeeded, alternatively, why there isn't a billion dollar reward on Putins head? That surely would motivate someone to kill him. =)

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