• Human data for AI exhausted

    From Retrograde@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 04:02:42 2025
    From the «try the cesspool called Usenet» department:
    Title: Elon Musk says all human data for AI training ‘exhausted’
    Author: Dan Milmo Global technology editor
    Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2025 17:14:35 +0000
    Link: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/09/elon-musk-data-ai-training-artificial-intelligence
    Podcast Download URL: https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/d2a3a4094b703fc457d1069b61ebe1332163a6ee/0_170_5108_3065/master/5108.jpg?width=460&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=c6cb21c9de5c1ead9373244e95cbb201

    Tech boss suggests move to self-learning synthetic data though some warn this could cause ‘model collapse’

    * Business live – latest updates[1]

    Artificial intelligence companies have run out of data for training their models and have “exhausted” the sum of human knowledge, Elon Musk has said.

    The world’s richest person suggested technology firms would have to turn to “synthetic” data – or material created by AI models – to build and fine-tune
    new systems, a process already taking place with the fast-developing technology.
    Continue reading...[2]

    Links:
    [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2025/jan/08/bond-market-selloff-government-borrowing-costs-yields-china-currency-falls-us-jobs-business-live (link)
    [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/09/elon-musk-data-ai-training-artificial-intelligence (link)

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 18:33:19 2025
    On 12 Jan 2025 04:02:42 GMT, Retrograde <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    Artificial intelligence companies have run out of data for training their >models

    AI can be useful in specific applications, but I would not call it "intelligence"

    John McCarthy coined the term "artificial intelligence" (AI) in 1955 https://home.dartmouth.edu/about/artificial-intelligence-ai-coined-dartmouth

    Intelligence has multiple definitions, including the capacity to solve problems, but let it solve the problem of poverty...put it to a real
    test.

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  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to Retrograde on Sun Jan 12 22:29:16 2025
    On 1/11/2025 11:02 PM, Retrograde wrote:
    From the «try the cesspool called Usenet» department:
    Title: Elon Musk says all human data for AI training ‘exhausted’
    (snip)
    Tech boss suggests move to self-learning synthetic data though some warn this could cause ‘model collapse’

    This sounds like the start of some kind of HAL-9000 stuff to me. "I'm
    sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"...

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  • From Jukka Lahtinen@21:1/5 to JAB on Wed Jan 15 00:05:26 2025
    JAB <[email protected]d> writes:
    On 12 Jan 2025 04:02:42 GMT, Retrograde <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    Artificial intelligence companies have run out of data for training their >>models

    AI can be useful in specific applications, but I would not call it "intelligence"

    Quite often it looks more like artificial stupidity.

    --
    Jukka Lahtinen

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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Jukka Lahtinen on Tue Jan 14 19:10:50 2025
    Jukka Lahtinen <[email protected]d> writes:

    JAB <[email protected]d> writes:

    On 12 Jan 2025 04:02:42 GMT, Retrograde <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    Artificial intelligence companies have run out of data for training their >>>models

    AI can be useful in specific applications, but I would not call it
    "intelligence"

    Quite often it looks more like artificial stupidity.

    Because that is just what it is.

    As long as AI has been a thing, Artificial Stupidity has been a
    repeated jape.

    Trouble is, what we're now calling AI *is* artificial stupidity. It's
    sort of in the line of "idiot savant" because the neural net
    constructs do have a remarkable ability to detect or compare
    patterns.

    But now that they can construct convincing, grammatically correct
    language, the fact that they effectively exhibit the Dunning-Kruger
    effect is lost in the impact of well-written English.

    In the same metaphorical way that a corporation, if seen or treated as
    a person, is legally mandated to be a psychopath, current AIs --
    "generative large language models" in the jargon of the trade -- are
    designed to construct apparently knowledgeable assertions from
    detecting patterns in a vast corpus of text and present it with
    confidence. Of course corporations don't have neurally generated
    personalities to suffer from " antisocial personality disorder" [1].
    Nor do GLGMs have a body of knowledge, expertise or wisdom from which
    their assertions emerge. Neither do they have an internal *belief* that
    they *do* have a superior "body of knowledge, expertise or wisdom"
    that defines the Dunning-Kruger effect. But their excellent grammar
    and extensive vocabulary readily influence the credulous to infer that nonexistent "knowledge, expertise or wisdom". [2]

    These GLLMs appear to be a sort of automated Delphi process. The
    problem is that, in nearly every respect, they violate or fail to
    meet the criteria for a Delphi process to operate correctly and do
    exhibit the failure modes that a mismanaged Delphi process encounters.

    I'm not going to try to write an analysis of Delphi methods here for comparison. For further background, you can look at:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_language_model

    People can be intellectually and/or emotionally entrained by language
    that is delivered with confidence while being largely or entirely
    nonsensical. Well-written language presented authoritatively is, in a
    sense, automatically convincing. I'm always encouraged to attribute a
    little extra credibility to text which exhibits errors well known to
    result from hasty keyboard editing of text; so far, GLLMs don't do
    that. I surmise that they soon will.


    [1] The clinical term for psychopathy or sociopathy according to DSM-IV.
    I assume that's unchanged in DSM-V.

    [2] See also: Bobby Azarian,
    https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/stupidity-threat/
    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jan 14 19:23:51 2025
    On 14 Jan 2025 19:10:50 -0400, Mike Spencer
    <[email protected]e> wrote:

    But now that they can construct convincing, grammatically correct
    language, the fact that they effectively exhibit the Dunning-Kruger
    effect is lost in the impact of well-written English.

    I've used Google's AI, but "it" provides cites to its
    "claims/assertions," so the reader can examine the source.

    I'm impressed, but it is only a tool. If asking a very specific
    question, it may not retrieve the "correct" answer.

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  • From Retrograde@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Wed Jan 15 02:27:03 2025
    On 2025-01-14, Mike Spencer <[email protected]e> wrote:
    In the same metaphorical way that a corporation, if seen or treated as
    a person, is legally mandated to be a psychopath, current AIs --
    "generative large language models" in the jargon of the trade -- are
    designed to construct apparently knowledgeable assertions from
    detecting patterns in a vast corpus of text and present it with
    confidence. Of course corporations don't have neurally generated personalities to suffer from " antisocial personality disorder" [1].
    Nor do GLGMs have a body of knowledge, expertise or wisdom from which
    their assertions emerge. Neither do they have an internal *belief*
    that they *do* have a superior "body of knowledge, expertise or
    wisdom" that defines the Dunning-Kruger effect. But their excellent
    grammar and extensive vocabulary readily influence the credulous to
    infer that nonexistent "knowledge, expertise or wisdom". [2]

    Very, very well said, thank you.

    I've been thinking recently that the term 'artificial INTELLIGENCE' is a marketing trick, similar to somehow convincing markets that CLOUD
    services are anything other than renting someone else's server.

    There's no intelligence to them, but by using (coopting? employing?) the
    term, it implies presence of something that is not there.

    The ruse may not have been willful, but it has been effective.

    If they had called this new technology "advanced pattern matching
    repetition" we would not be throwing gobs of money at it.

    I look forward to the whole industry cratering, and the likes of Sam
    Altman being run off with burning torches and pitchforks.

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