Under-fire Elon Musk urged to get a grip on X and reality - or resign

Chamber of Progress pens open letter pressing billionaire to behave
better amid UK riots
...
...
The Chamber of Progress is supported by major Silicon Valley tech
firms including Amazon, Apple, Google, and Meta, to name a few. These
firms did not ask the group to make an appeal to Musk, according to
director of communications Chris MacKenzie.
...
....
MacKenzie's suggestion that Musk's behavior tarnishes the entire
industry offers another clue as to why the Chamber of Progress is
trying to temper Musk's trolling: Online rabble-rousing is bad for
online business and may lead to unwanted regulation.

When social media platforms incite violence and protests, legislators
face more pressure to respond to calls from civil society groups like
Amnesty International to ban social media data gathering and subject
algorithms "to strict regulatory oversight."

https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/07/elon_musk_chamber_progress/

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On Thu, 08 Aug 2024 12:28:42 -0500, JAB <[email protected]d> wrote:

Under-fire Elon Musk urged to get a grip on X and reality - or resign

PS: The Irish Data Protection Commission has launched legal action
against Twitter, alleging the social network's use of EU user posts to
train Grok - the AI search assistant built by Musk's xAI lab that's
intertwined with X - breaks Europe's tough GDPR.

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On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, JAB wrote:

Under-fire Elon Musk urged to get a grip on X and reality - or resign

Chamber of Progress pens open letter pressing billionaire to behave
better amid UK riots
...
...
The Chamber of Progress is supported by major Silicon Valley tech
firms including Amazon, Apple, Google, and Meta, to name a few. These
firms did not ask the group to make an appeal to Musk, according to
director of communications Chris MacKenzie.
...
....
MacKenzie's suggestion that Musk's behavior tarnishes the entire
industry offers another clue as to why the Chamber of Progress is
trying to temper Musk's trolling: Online rabble-rousing is bad for
online business and may lead to unwanted regulation.

When social media platforms incite violence and protests, legislators
face more pressure to respond to calls from civil society groups like
Amnesty International to ban social media data gathering and subject algorithms "to strict regulatory oversight."

https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/07/elon_musk_chamber_progress/

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries
can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

No one is talking about education, public awareness, treating individuals
as adults.

Everyone of the politicians I hear about is about banning speech, banning critique of politicians and islam, fining people who say the wrong thing,
more camera surveillance, more police powers etc.

That way lies madness and the end station is authoritarianism. I find
these signs troubling.

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On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 22:28:45 +0200, D <[email protected]> wrote:

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries
can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

3.3 Freedom of Speech

Learning Objectives

Define speech under the First Amendment.

Identify five types of speech that can be governmentally regulated
in spite of the First Amendment.

Ascertain the constitutional parameters for statutes that
criminalize speech.
...
...
For the purpose of brevity, this book reviews the constitutional
exceptions to free speech in statutes criminalizing fighting words,
incitement to riot, hate crimes, and obscenity.

https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/3-3-freedom-of-speech/

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D <[email protected]> writes:

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries
can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

There's a large number of people who are variously possessed of rabid fanaticism -- religious, political or confabulated -- and another
large tranche who are driven by sheer perversity. The so-called
"social media" as they are now operated enable these people widely to instantaneously disseminate overt falsehood, inflammatory rhetoric,
believable misinformation and the like to a vast audience among which
are the gullible, the fearful, the ignorant and the mentally unstable
who can be swept into destructive action, potentially widely when
informally coordinated via contemporary telecom tech.

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

No one is talking about education, public awareness, treating individuals
as adults.

Educating or enlightening the fanatics and the perverse is not doable
and they cannot safely or in good faith be treated as adults. This is
a problem with TFG who enjoys both a confabulated fanatic sense of
self and a perverse enjoyment of doing unto others simply because he
can. He is neither educable nor enlightenable and it has been a big
mistake to treat him as an adult.


--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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Mike Spencer wrote:

D <[email protected]> writes:

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries
can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

There's a large number of people who are variously possessed of rabid fanaticism

Yes: they're commonly called 'leftists'.

-- religious, political or confabulated -- and another
large tranche who are driven by sheer perversity. The so-called
"social media" as they are now operated enable these people widely to instantaneously disseminate overt falsehood, inflammatory rhetoric, believable misinformation and the like to a vast audience among which
are the gullible, the fearful, the ignorant and the mentally unstable
who can be swept into destructive action, potentially widely when
informally coordinated via contemporary telecom tech.

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

No one is talking about education, public awareness, treating individuals
as adults.

Educating or enlightening the fanatics and the perverse is not doable
and they cannot safely or in good faith be treated as adults. This is
a problem with TFG who enjoys both a confabulated fanatic sense of
self and a perverse enjoyment of doing unto others simply because he
can. He is neither educable nor enlightenable and it has been a big
mistake to treat him as an adult.

Because of "people" like you, there is more "free speech" in Russia
and China than there is in the so-called "West". And the rules are
completely straightforward.

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JAB wrote:
Under-fire Elon Musk urged to get a grip on X and reality - or

resign

Chamber of Progress pens open letter pressing billionaire to behave
better amid UK riots
....
....
The Chamber of Progress is supported by major Silicon Valley tech
firms including Amazon, Apple, Google, and Meta, to name a few.

These

firms did not ask the group to make an appeal to Musk, according to
director of communications Chris MacKenzie.
....
.....
MacKenzie's suggestion that Musk's behavior tarnishes the entire
industry offers another clue as to why the Chamber of Progress is
trying to temper Musk's trolling: Online rabble-rousing is bad for
online business and may lead to unwanted regulation.

When social media platforms incite violence and protests,

legislators

face more pressure to respond to calls from civil society groups

like

Amnesty International to ban social media data gathering and

subject

algorithms "to strict regulatory oversight."

https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/07/elon_musk_chamber_progress/

He
is doing a fine job. Burn it down.


This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=671285881#671285881

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On 09 Aug 2024 01:12:27 -0300
Mike Spencer <[email protected]e> wrote:

D <[email protected]> writes:

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

There's a large number of people who are variously possessed of rabid fanaticism -- religious, political or confabulated -- and another
large tranche who are driven by sheer perversity. The so-called
"social media" as they are now operated enable these people widely to instantaneously disseminate overt falsehood, inflammatory rhetoric, believable misinformation and the like to a vast audience among which
are the gullible, the fearful, the ignorant and the mentally unstable
who can be swept into destructive action, potentially widely when
informally coordinated via contemporary telecom tech.

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

No one is talking about education, public awareness, treating individuals as adults.

Educating or enlightening the fanatics and the perverse is not doable
and they cannot safely or in good faith be treated as adults. This is
a problem with TFG who enjoys both a confabulated fanatic sense of
self and a perverse enjoyment of doing unto others simply because he
can. He is neither educable nor enlightenable and it has been a big
mistake to treat him as an adult.

I agree, but I bet there's some troublemakers or badly informed sorts
who'll post against you.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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On Fri, 9 Aug 2024, Mike Spencer wrote:

D <[email protected]> writes:

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries
can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

There's a large number of people who are variously possessed of rabid fanaticism -- religious, political or confabulated -- and another
large tranche who are driven by sheer perversity. The so-called
"social media" as they are now operated enable these people widely to instantaneously disseminate overt falsehood, inflammatory rhetoric, believable misinformation and the like to a vast audience among which
are the gullible, the fearful, the ignorant and the mentally unstable
who can be swept into destructive action, potentially widely when
informally coordinated via contemporary telecom tech.

Incorrect. I am by no means forced to read all garbage on social media,
and if they want to spread it, it is their right. If we start to limit it,
it will only be used by dictators eventually, to limit the thoughts of
their opposition, which has already happened in sweden where it is illegal
to criticize immigration, immigrants and probably soon, "climate change".

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

That's nonsense. Theaters are private, which means the owner sets the
rules, just like the owner of Twitter sets the rules.

I am arguing against the government deciding what is allowed to be said or
not. That is immoral and highly dangerous as we learned in nazi germany
and the soviet union.

Another sinister trend are the numerous "truth ministries" where the government, or government funded organizations decide what is the truth.

On the other hand, I am blessed with usenet and mastodon where I can say
negro if I feel like it, without any problems! =) Let's hope that these
type of forums only become bigger, stronger and more powerful!

No one is talking about education, public awareness, treating individuals
as adults.

Educating or enlightening the fanatics and the perverse is not doable
and they cannot safely or in good faith be treated as adults. This is
a problem with TFG who enjoys both a confabulated fanatic sense of
self and a perverse enjoyment of doing unto others simply because he
can. He is neither educable nor enlightenable and it has been a big
mistake to treat him as an adult.

That's a paternalist and arrogant point of view. Germany was de-nazified, gripping stories of nazis, communists and criminals who managed to turn
their lives around are only a google search away.

You sound very polarizing and as if you have already written off these
people.

I have nazis as neighbours in the country side, and if you are white, they
are the kindest and most gentle of people.

If you are a negro, that's a different story though. ;) But that shows,
like we all remember from star wars, that there is still good in them.

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On 09 Aug 2024 01:12:27 -0300, Mike Spencer
<[email protected]e> wrote:

D <[email protected]> writes:

I find it very interesting that the only modus operandi western countries
can now resort to is banning and restricting free speech.

There's a large number of people who are variously possessed of rabid >fanaticism -- religious, political or confabulated -- and another
large tranche who are driven by sheer perversity. The so-called
"social media" as they are now operated enable these people widely to >instantaneously disseminate overt falsehood, inflammatory rhetoric, >believable misinformation and the like to a vast audience among which
are the gullible, the fearful, the ignorant and the mentally unstable
who can be swept into destructive action, potentially widely when
informally coordinated via contemporary telecom tech.

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

No one is talking about education, public awareness, treating individuals
as adults.

Educating or enlightening the fanatics and the perverse is not doable
and they cannot safely or in good faith be treated as adults. This is
a problem with TFG who enjoys both a confabulated fanatic sense of
self and a perverse enjoyment of doing unto others simply because he
can. He is neither educable nor enlightenable and it has been a big
mistake to treat him as an adult.

Well said:-)

He is neither educable nor enlightenable

Musk shows a similar behavioral pattern....and both need the 'board of education' years ago.

"social media" as they are now operated enable these people

Yes, the skeletons in the closet are afoot...

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On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 10:46:19 +0200, D <[email protected]> wrote:

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

That's nonsense. Theaters are private, which means the owner sets the
rules, just like the owner of Twitter sets the rules.

I believe your comment is not in sync with Mike's.

The history behind 'shouting fire in a crowded theater' and other free
speech phrases
...
...
This is where the "theater" phrase comes in. Holmes used the analogy
to introduce a truism: "The most stringent protection of free speech
would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and
causing a panic." This prosecution, he argued, was like that scenario.
The fact that the nation was involved in a war meant that "many things
that might be said in time of peace are such a hindrance to its effort
that their utterance will not be endured so long as men fight, and
that no Court could regard them as protected by any constitutional
right." https://sutherlandinstitute.org/the-history-behind-shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-and-other-free-speech-phrases/

On a different note related to

Theaters are private, which means the owner sets the rules

Iroquois Theatre fire - Despite attempts by Foy to calm the crowd,
audience members frantically rushed for the exits, only to find that
fire exits were locked or hidden.

Despite being billed as "absolutely fireproof",....The Iroquois
Theatre fire was a catastrophic building fire in Chicago, Illinois,
that broke out on December 30, 1903 during a performance attended by
1,700 people. The fire caused 602 deaths and 250 non-fatal
injuries.[1] It ranks as the worst theater fire in the United States, surpassing the carnage of the Brooklyn Theatre fire of 1876, which
claimed at least 278 lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_Theatre_fire

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On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 10:46:19 +0200, D <[email protected]> wrote:

The "crying 'FIRE' in a crowded theater" concept desperately needs to
be updated.

That's nonsense. Theaters are private, which means the owner sets the
rules, just like the owner of Twitter sets the rules.

On a different note, do read:

By winning the battle against GARM, Elon Musk will lose the war
...
...
The upside to today's news is that advertisers will no longer rely on
GARM and will now take more direct responsibility over where their ads
appear.

This is a fast-moving industry. With this change, consumers,
advertisers, news publishers, and even regulators have an opportunity
to set new clear standards for how the internet should be governed.

This change does not mean that ads will start sponsoring hate again.
In fact, the opposite is true: brands and their employees are more
clear than ever about what they want to be associated with -- and what
they want to avoid.

https://checkmyads.org/elon-musk-garm-lawsuit/

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On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 09:15:34 +0200, kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

Under-fire Elon Musk urged to get a grip on X and reality - or resign

PS: The Irish Data Protection Commission has launched legal action
against Twitter, alleging the social network's use of EU user posts to
train Grok - the AI search assistant built by Musk's xAI lab that's
intertwined with X - breaks Europe's tough GDPR.

That means they are pissed off enough to threaten him with enforcing the >actual laws.

It also means Musk is a loose cannon on the deck, who does not respect
laws and regulations.

He suggests he supports the environment (via EVs), but flies in the
company jet, compulsively. His speech must be verified.

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