Trump calls on Alabama to protect IVF treatment after court ruling

Donald Trump has said he supports the availability of IVF treatment,
joining a growing number of Republicans who are seeking to distance
themselves from an Alabama court ruling on the issue.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68388232

But,

Trump Took Credit for Overturning Roe v. Wade

Fox News town hall, "For 54 years they were trying to get Roe v. Wade terminated, and I did it. And I'm proud to have done it."

And, ending Roe v Wade is why that Alabamian court could "conclude" an
embryo is akin to a person. Needless to say, them ProLifers have
suggested an embryo is special too, but IVF attempts to separate the
good embryos from defective ones.

ProLifers and related conservatives are mental basket
cases...flip-flopping on IVF means defective "persons" are killed in
their reasoning.



May 15, 2023

The Irony of Pro-life Efforts to Grant Embryos Legal Personhood

The overruling of Roe v. Wade has emboldened pro-life lawmakers to
confer legal personhood status on early-stage embryos outside of
pregnancy as well, including in the context of assisted reproduction. Recognizing embryos as legal persons, it is said, promotes a "culture
of life." And yet treating embryos as persons would actually undermine
a promotion of human life, in this critical sense: helping people to
have the children they want and are otherwise unable to have.

Designating embryos "persons" would have the effect of obstructing the
medical best practices that infertile people have come to rely on to
create offspring in the face of uncertain reproductive outcomes and
often significant biological limits. So, treating embryos more like
persons will ultimately result in fewer people born and fewer families
formed. This is because the success of a procedure like in vitro
fertilization (IVF) -- from initiating pregnancy to coming to term in
a live birth -- depends in large part on being able to select from
among multiple embryos the ones most likely to implant and develop
into a child. The more restricted that cohort of embryos, the lower
the chances of ending up with a baby to take home

https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2023/05/15/the-irony-of-pro-life-efforts-to-grant-embryos-legal-personhood/

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On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 10:44:04 -0600, JAB <[email protected]d> wrote:

Trump calls on Alabama to protect IVF treatment after court ruling

Donald Trump has said he supports the availability of IVF treatment,
joining a growing number of Republicans who are seeking to distance >themselves from an Alabama court ruling on the issue.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68388232

It's clear this Senator was clueless about this topic




Reporter: Do you have a reaction to the Alabama Supreme Court ruling?

GOP Sen. Tuberville: I was all for it... We need to have more kids

Reporter: But IVF is used to have more children and IVF services are
paused at some clinics

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1760783335909925116

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On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 16:38:58 -0500, Auric Hellman
<[email protected]> wrote:

and hence the big change in attitude

Republican party is attempting to win back those soccer moms (a
middle-class suburban mother), who are the ones who can afford IVF.

Ethically, if a Pro-lifer accepts embryos as being "personhoods,"
then IVF must be eliminated since defective embryos are discarded.

I'm not a Jew, but their religious thinking is better, imho, on the
abortion topic

The Torah of Reproductive Freedom
The Jewish Case for Abortion Justice
Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg
Mar 28, 2022 13 min read

https://www.lifeisasacredtext.com/the-torah-of-reproductive-freedom/

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On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 16:38:58 -0500, Auric Hellman
<[email protected]> wrote:

They suddenly realized

It's clear Republicans never considered consequences, nor were they
aware of how IVF works.

Introduced in House (02/11/2021)
117th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 1011
...
...
For purposes of this Act:

(1) HUMAN PERSON; HUMAN BEING.--The terms "human person" and "human
being" include each and every member of the species homo sapiens at
all stages of life, including the moment of fertilization, cloning, or
other moment at which an individual member of the human species comes
into being.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1011/text

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On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 01:29:11 -0500, Auric Hellman
<[email protected]> wrote:

pro-life stance on abortion.

All religions are not consistent about when life begins. Some suggest
when the soul enters a body at birth...others no comment.

As noted before..."between 60 and 80 percent of all naturally
conceived embryos are simply flushed out in women's normal menstrual
flows unnoticed. This is not miscarriage we're talking about." http://reason.com/archives/2004/12/22/is-heaven-populated-chiefly-by

I have no idea who dreamed up this idea of embryos being akin to
personhood, but whoever is not a profound thinker. My speculation is
the Republican party wants the religious folks into their fold, so
abortion/etc has been used as a political gimmick for obtaining votes.

FWIW, the Alabama Supreme Court case was about "allowing three couples
to sue a fertility clinic where their frozen embryos were allegedly
destroyed by accident in 2020." https://www.improvethenews.org/story/2024/alabama-supreme-court-rules-frozen-embryos-are-children

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On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 09:02:25 -0600, JAB wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 01:29:11 -0500, Auric Hellman <[email protected]> wrote:

pro-life stance on abortion.

All religions are not consistent about when life begins. Some suggest
when the soul enters a body at birth...others no comment.

As noted before..."between 60 and 80 percent of all naturally conceived embryos are simply flushed out in women's normal menstrual flows
unnoticed. This is not miscarriage we're talking about." http://reason.com/archives/2004/12/22/is-heaven-populated-chiefly-by

I have no idea who dreamed up this idea of embryos being akin to
personhood, but whoever is not a profound thinker. My speculation is the Republican party wants the religious folks into their fold, so
abortion/etc has been used as a political gimmick for obtaining votes.

That would be Horatio Storer, who developed the idea in support of his
crusade to make abortion illegal at the beginning of the US Anti-abortion movement in the mid 19th century. His wikipedia entry is interesting:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Storer>

Or maybe it's horrible.

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On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 16:32:35 GMT, Derek J Decker <[email protected]>
wrote:

I have no idea who dreamed up this idea of embryos being akin to
personhood, but whoever is not a profound thinker.

That would be Horatio Storer,....

Thanks....in his time, his beliefs may have persuaded some, but if the scientific aspects are dissected today, its bullshit.

His racist underpinning illustrates his bias. "The racial fears would
inspire forced sterilization programs to decrease certain populations,
but Storer's anti-abortion campaign was trying to increase other
populations by focusing on Protestant white women. Elite Protestant
white women were often the ones seeking abortions. The birth rate for Protestant white women had been declining over the course of the 19th
century and so he had fears of what was commonly referred to as "race
suicide" of the Anglo-Saxon replenishing itself fast enough to keep up
with the swells of new immigrants to the United States."


Margaret Sanger supported negative eugenics, which is inline with the
above. I must assume in their times, this was a well known topic.

The Human Genome Project was about "...identifying, mapping and
sequencing all of the genes of the human genome from both a physical
and a functional standpoint," but I'm not aware of any researcher
suggesting "Protestant white women" are the crown jewels.

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On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 16:32:35 GMT, Derek J Decker <[email protected]>
wrote:

Horatio Storer

Eugenics concept has been around since 400 BCE, and I suspect he was
familiar with this topic. Scientific racism (biological racism) is
the outcome when practiced, but scientifically, these thinkers were
without awareness of human genetics. A false paradigm...

"Scientific racism was common during the period from the 1600s to the
end of World War II, and was particularly prominent in European and
American academic writings from the mid-19th century through the
early-20th century. Since the second half of the 20th century,
scientific racism has been discredited and criticized as obsolete, yet
has persistently been used to support or validate racist world-views
based upon belief in the existence and significance of racial
categories and a hierarchy of superior and inferior races.[9]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

=======================================

Heritage Foundation has a recent article,

Jan 24, 2024

Protestant Denominations Need Stronger Leadership on Assisted
Reproductive Technology https://www.heritage.org/marriage-and-family/commentary/protestant-denominations-need-stronger-leadership-assisted

but I suspect if specifics are dissected, it's nothing more than a
propaganda piece for pumping up the base.

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On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 08:38:10 -0600
JAB <[email protected]d> wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 16:32:35 GMT, Derek J Decker <[email protected]>
wrote:

Horatio Storer

Eugenics concept has been around since 400 BCE, and I suspect he was
familiar with this topic. Scientific racism (biological racism) is
the outcome when practiced, but scientifically, these thinkers were
without awareness of human genetics. A false paradigm...

"Scientific racism was common during the period from the 1600s to the
end of World War II, and was particularly prominent in European and
American academic writings from the mid-19th century through the
early-20th century. Since the second half of the 20th century,
scientific racism has been discredited and criticized as obsolete, yet
has persistently been used to support or validate racist world-views
based upon belief in the existence and significance of racial
categories and a hierarchy of superior and inferior races.[9]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

[]

I don't want to encourage any kind of racist bigotry, but there are
traits that indicate one's genetic line of descent; and some
adaptations are clearly genetic: some diseases are more/less prevalent in
some peoples than in others. also lactose tolerance, long distance
running, ability to survive at altitude/chilled/really hot/ environments.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 15:45:06 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
<[email protected]> wrote:

but there are traits that indicate
one's genetic line of descent;

Clearly, but in their time (Storer, Sanger), I believe their focus of
what's best for humankind was skewed towards religion/IQ/race, and
some of them had an extreme case of self-righteousness.

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