• Checking identity

    From Roy@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 24 07:08:36 2024
    A federal or local agent asks if you a John Doe, You refuse to answer
    or show id.

    Can they ask that you press your finger on their device?

    Can they use your picture on his bodycam to do facial recognition?

    This check may not be a positive id but I would think it would certainly
    give a reason to detain you further.

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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to Roy on Sun Nov 24 15:02:42 2024
    On 11/24/2024 10:08 AM, Roy wrote:
    A federal or local agent asks if you a John Doe,  You refuse to answer
    or show id.

    Can they ask that you press your finger on their device?

    Can they use your picture on his bodycam to do facial recognition?

    This check may not be a positive id but I would think it would certainly
    give a reason to detain you further.


    I believe they need probable cause, but it might vary by state.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Barry Gold@21:1/5 to Roy on Sun Nov 24 15:03:21 2024
    On 11/24/2024 7:08 AM, Roy wrote:
    A federal or local agent asks if you a John Doe,  You refuse to answer
    or show id.

    Can they ask that you press your finger on their device?

    Can they use your picture on his bodycam to do facial recognition?

    This check may not be a positive id but I would think it would certainly
    give a reason to detain you further.


    Look up Terry Stop in Wikipedia. To sum up:
    1. A peace officer must have "reasonable suspicion" that you are
    involved in some criminal activity. Given that, they are entitled to ask
    you to identify yourself. That means that you must tell the officer your
    name. If you have more than one, e.g., writing under a pen name, you
    must give the one you normally use in your daily affairs.

    2. When an officer engages you in conversation, he does not have to tell
    you that you are free to leave. If you want to terminate the encounter,
    you must ask the officer if you are free to leave. If not, you must
    stay, but you do not have to answer any questions beyond giving your
    name. If you are operating a motor vehicle, the officer can demand your
    driver license and you must give it to him.

    3. If the officer has a reasonable suspicion that you are armed, he can
    do a "pat down" search and "seize" whatever suspicious items he finds.
    Not just weapons - in 1968 I was stopped by police and had a bandage can
    in my shirt pocket. The officer took it, opened it, and found a "joint"
    and arrested me. I consulted a lawyer, and he said that the officer was
    allowed to do this, even though I can't imagine a weapon in a bandage can.

    If you search YouTube for things like "terry stop" or just "police",
    you'll get lots of videos about what an officer can or can't do. And how
    you should protect your rights.

    --
    I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

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  • From Roy@21:1/5 to Barry Gold on Sun Nov 24 22:19:20 2024
    On 11/24/2024 3:03 PM, Barry Gold wrote:
    ...

    If you search YouTube for things like "terry stop" or just "police",
    you'll get lots of videos about what an officer can or can't do. And how
    you should protect your rights.


    I was thinking of where ICE has seen a person on the street and asks for
    their identity based on photo recognition. They think the person has
    been previously deported and want a fingerprint scan to confirm. Note
    that the database is federal so a state's driver license database is not involved.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to Roy on Mon Nov 25 08:09:05 2024
    Roy <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 11/24/2024 3:03 PM, Barry Gold wrote:
    ...

    If you search YouTube for things like "terry stop" or just "police",
    you'll get lots of videos about what an officer can or can't do. And
    how you should protect your rights.


    I was thinking of where ICE has seen a person on the street and asks
    for their identity based on photo recognition. They think the person
    has been previously deported and want a fingerprint scan to confirm.
    Note that the database is federal so a state's driver license database
    is not involved.

    The key phrase is "reasonable suspicion." To stop someone just based on
    their complexion is not reasonable suspicion. To top someone because he
    looks a lot like someone who shouldn't be there, it may be.


    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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  • From Barry Gold@21:1/5 to Roy on Mon Nov 25 19:49:13 2024
    On 11/24/2024 10:19 PM, Roy wrote:

    If you search YouTube for things like "terry stop" or just "police",
    you'll get lots of videos about what an officer can or can't do. And
    how you should protect your rights.


    I was thinking of where ICE has seen a person on the street and asks for their identity based on photo recognition.  They think the person has
    been previously deported and want a fingerprint scan to confirm.  Note
    that the database is federal so a state's driver license database is not involved.

    Those rule arise from the Constitution, specifically the Fourth
    Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. It
    applies to the Federal Government just as much as to state and local governments.

    They still need reasonable suspicion to stop and/or detain you, and if
    they demand your ID papers they need to have probable cause.

    --
    I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Roy@21:1/5 to Barry Gold on Tue Nov 26 12:02:58 2024
    On 11/25/2024 7:49 PM, Barry Gold wrote:
    ...

    Those rule arise from the Constitution, specifically the Fourth
    Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. It
    applies to the Federal Government just as much as to state and local governments.

    They still need reasonable suspicion to stop and/or detain you, and if
    they demand your ID papers they need to have probable cause.


    I think that a possible match via photo recognition of a wanted person
    would be reasonable suspicion and a request for a fingerprint would be
    allowed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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