The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

The situation: three people purchase tickets from Argentina to Miami,
Florida and pay extra to choose their seats so they can sit together.
The seats have a price tag so they pay extra for the seats as well.

When they board they are directed to sit in different seats and are
not seated together. The seats they had previously chosen are then
occupied by people who appear to be resting or returning off-duty
crew.

On return to Argentina they contact the airline office to ask for a
refund of the extra fees they paid for the seats. The office says that
they have the right to move any passenger for "Operational Reasons"
and that they don't give refunds.

I have no argument with the right of the crew to move passengers
although I would have expected the reasons to be more along the lines
of caring for babies, old or disabled folk or to cope with a medical
emergency but to move so that off duty crew may have a more
comfortable ride home?

Anyway, my main concern is the refusal to refund the seat fees. Surely
a specific good or service has been paid for and not supplied? If
airlines never refunded payments for extras not received would anybody
buy them? So which country or state laws should apply to this
situation?

Nick

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On 9/21/2024 6:12 AM, Nick Odell wrote:

The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

The situation: three people purchase tickets from Argentina to Miami,
Florida and pay extra to choose their seats so they can sit together.
The seats have a price tag so they pay extra for the seats as well.

When they board they are directed to sit in different seats and are
not seated together. The seats they had previously chosen are then
occupied by people who appear to be resting or returning off-duty
crew.

On return to Argentina they contact the airline office to ask for a
refund of the extra fees they paid for the seats. The office says that
they have the right to move any passenger for "Operational Reasons"
and that they don't give refunds.

I have no argument with the right of the crew to move passengers
although I would have expected the reasons to be more along the lines
of caring for babies, old or disabled folk or to cope with a medical emergency but to move so that off duty crew may have a more
comfortable ride home?

Anyway, my main concern is the refusal to refund the seat fees. Surely
a specific good or service has been paid for and not supplied? If
airlines never refunded payments for extras not received would anybody
buy them? So which country or state laws should apply to this
situation?

It appears that US law applies, both because the airline is incorporated
in the US and because the destination is in the US.

Seat fees are usually fairly small compared with the cost of going to
court. It might be more efficient to contact a local TV station in the destination city - or in the passenger's home city, if in the US. Every
city I'm aware of has at least one TV station with a consumer complaints section in their news staff. Contacting them will probably get some sort
of adjustment. Bad publicity and all that...


--
I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

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It appears that Nick Odell <[email protected]> said:

The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

[ not seated in paid reserved seats ]

I'd think this is governed by American Airlines' tariff,
which you can find here:

https://www.aa.com/content/images/tariff/american-airlines-general-rules-of-the-international-tariff.pdf

On page 143 under "Ancilllaries" it says if they don't provide the
seat assignment you paid for, uou get an involuntary refund, as in it
was involuntary on your part.

I would start here and make a refund request:

https://www.aa.com/refunds/en_US/#/refunds/lookup

--
Regards,
John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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Nick Odell <[email protected]> wrote:

The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

I recently had that situation happen to me. I filed lots of complaints
with the airline and the FAA, but didn't think it was worth going to
small claims court over.

In your case either country would have jurisdiction. Normally you can
sue a defendant either where they live, work or where the wrong took
place. Since the airline has offices in both countries and the tickets
were purchased in Argentina, the plaintiffs can sue in either place.

The situation: three people purchase tickets from Argentina to Miami,
Florida and pay extra to choose their seats so they can sit together.
The seats have a price tag so they pay extra for the seats as well.

When they board they are directed to sit in different seats and are
not seated together. The seats they had previously chosen are then
occupied by people who appear to be resting or returning off-duty
crew.

On return to Argentina they contact the airline office to ask for a
refund of the extra fees they paid for the seats. The office says that
they have the right to move any passenger for "Operational Reasons"
and that they don't give refunds.

I have no argument with the right of the crew to move passengers
although I would have expected the reasons to be more along the lines
of caring for babies, old or disabled folk or to cope with a medical emergency but to move so that off duty crew may have a more
comfortable ride home?

Anyway, my main concern is the refusal to refund the seat fees. Surely
a specific good or service has been paid for and not supplied? If
airlines never refunded payments for extras not received would anybody
buy them? So which country or state laws should apply to this
situation?

Nick

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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On 9/21/2024 9:12 AM, Nick Odell wrote:

The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

The situation: three people purchase tickets from Argentina to Miami,
Florida and pay extra to choose their seats so they can sit together.
The seats have a price tag so they pay extra for the seats as well.

When they board they are directed to sit in different seats and are
not seated together. The seats they had previously chosen are then
occupied by people who appear to be resting or returning off-duty
crew.

On return to Argentina they contact the airline office to ask for a
refund of the extra fees they paid for the seats. The office says that
they have the right to move any passenger for "Operational Reasons"
and that they don't give refunds.

I have no argument with the right of the crew to move passengers
although I would have expected the reasons to be more along the lines
of caring for babies, old or disabled folk or to cope with a medical emergency but to move so that off duty crew may have a more
comfortable ride home?

Anyway, my main concern is the refusal to refund the seat fees. Surely
a specific good or service has been paid for and not supplied? If
airlines never refunded payments for extras not received would anybody
buy them? So which country or state laws should apply to this
situation?

Nick

I think the issue here is what were you told when you bought the seat assignment? Assuming you did this online, was there anything in the
small print on that page that said the seats were actually not
guaranteed and could be reassigned for specific reasons? If that's the
case, then I don't think you really have a right to the refund.

Otherwise, assuming you purchased these seats assignments with a credit
card, I would complain to the credit card company, who will almost
certainly reverse the charge while they contact the airline to get their response to your complaint. Given the relatively small cost that's
usually involved with seat assignment purchases, my guess is the airline
won't respond to the credit card company and will just let the credit stand.

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On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 06:12:56 -0700 (PDT), Nick Odell
<[email protected]> wrote:

The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

The situation: three people purchase tickets from Argentina to Miami,
Florida and pay extra to choose their seats so they can sit together.
The seats have a price tag so they pay extra for the seats as well.

When they board they are directed to sit in different seats and are
not seated together. The seats they had previously chosen are then
occupied by people who appear to be resting or returning off-duty
crew.

On return to Argentina they contact the airline office to ask for a
refund of the extra fees they paid for the seats. The office says that
they have the right to move any passenger for "Operational Reasons"
and that they don't give refunds.

I have no argument with the right of the crew to move passengers
although I would have expected the reasons to be more along the lines
of caring for babies, old or disabled folk or to cope with a medical >emergency but to move so that off duty crew may have a more
comfortable ride home?

Anyway, my main concern is the refusal to refund the seat fees. Surely
a specific good or service has been paid for and not supplied? If
airlines never refunded payments for extras not received would anybody
buy them? So which country or state laws should apply to this
situation?

Thanks, all, for the replies. Very useful stuff there. @SB - no
intention to go to law for the obvious reasons. If Argentina's
consumer laws can be seen to apply then it may be worth going to
Defensor de Consumidor and see if they will have a "quiet word" with
the airline. They are very keen to see fair play.

Thanks again,

Nick

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* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Send a letter to the Office of the Chief Executive Officer of American Airlines. They may respond to your complaint.



On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 06:12:56 -0700 (PDT), Nick Odell
<[email protected]> wrote:

The background. American owned and operated airline. Tickets purchased
in Argentina. Operating between Argentina and Florida USA. Which
country or state would have jurisdiction over a complaint?

The situation: three people purchase tickets from Argentina to Miami,
Florida and pay extra to choose their seats so they can sit together.
The seats have a price tag so they pay extra for the seats as well.

When they board they are directed to sit in different seats and are
not seated together. The seats they had previously chosen are then
occupied by people who appear to be resting or returning off-duty
crew.

On return to Argentina they contact the airline office to ask for a
refund of the extra fees they paid for the seats. The office says that
they have the right to move any passenger for "Operational Reasons"
and that they don't give refunds.

I have no argument with the right of the crew to move passengers
although I would have expected the reasons to be more along the lines
of caring for babies, old or disabled folk or to cope with a medical >emergency but to move so that off duty crew may have a more
comfortable ride home?

Anyway, my main concern is the refusal to refund the seat fees. Surely
a specific good or service has been paid for and not supplied? If
airlines never refunded payments for extras not received would anybody
buy them? So which country or state laws should apply to this
situation?

Nick

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)