• Contempt for you

    From micky@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 5 13:19:22 2024
    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my
    point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to
    one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you,

    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where
    they threaten people with contempt?

    --
    I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
    I am not a lawyer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to micky on Wed Jun 5 16:02:12 2024
    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to
    one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you,

    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where
    they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" is grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with a subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to
    testify.

    --

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jun 6 08:24:13 2024
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]... >>
    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >>point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to >>one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you,

    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where
    they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" is >grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with a >subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to >testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge Aileen Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be affected
    by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you think
    you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the
    lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."

    --
    I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
    I am not a lawyer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick@21:1/5 to micky on Thu Jun 6 11:16:01 2024
    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" ><[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message >>news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >>>point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to >>>one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you,

    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where
    they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" is >>grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with a >>subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to >>testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge Aileen >Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be affected
    by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you think
    you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the
    lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."


    Courtrooms are different from Congress. Congress just wants answers to
    their questions, and if you refuse their requests for info, that's when you
    are likely to be hit with a contempt charge. But you're not dealing with a judge who is trying to control a courtroom. A judge in a courtroom expects
    a certain degree of deference and decorum, and I do think a defendant or
    lawyer who says what you quote could be hit with a contempt charge for those specific words. I also doubt if any lawyer or even Trump himself would make that kind of statement directly to the judge.

    --

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jun 7 23:10:44 2024
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 6 Jun 2024 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]... >>
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" >><[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message >>>news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >>>>point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to >>>>one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you,

    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where >>>>they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" is >>>grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with a >>>subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to >>>testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge Aileen >>Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be affected
    by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you think
    you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the
    lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."


    Courtrooms are different from Congress. Congress just wants answers to
    their questions, and if you refuse their requests for info, that's when you >are likely to be hit with a contempt charge. But you're not dealing with a >judge who is trying to control a courtroom. A judge in a courtroom expects
    a certain degree of deference and decorum, and I do think a defendant or >lawyer who says what you quote could be hit with a contempt charge for those >specific words. I also doubt if any lawyer or even Trump himself would make >that kind of statement directly to the judge.

    I have to start taking my medicine again, to not notice when I switched
    from Congress to courts. Sorry.

    Okay, how about this:

    When Margery Taylor Greene refused to address Dr. Anthony Fauci as
    Doctor, in a committee hearing a few days ago. would it be contempt if
    he answered her question, "Margie, that's an interesting question...."?




    After all, it seemed like she was trying to get close to him.
    --

    --
    I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
    I am not a lawyer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Jun 8 07:22:09 2024
    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 6 Jun 2024 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" ><[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message >>news:[email protected]...

    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" >>><[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message >>>>news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >>>>>point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say >>>>>to
    one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you, >>>>>
    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where >>>>>they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" >>>>is
    grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with >>>>a
    subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to >>>>testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge Aileen >>>Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be affected >>>by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you think >>>you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the >>>lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."


    Courtrooms are different from Congress. Congress just wants answers to >>their questions, and if you refuse their requests for info, that's when
    you
    are likely to be hit with a contempt charge. But you're not dealing with >>a
    judge who is trying to control a courtroom. A judge in a courtroom
    expects
    a certain degree of deference and decorum, and I do think a defendant or >>lawyer who says what you quote could be hit with a contempt charge for >>those
    specific words. I also doubt if any lawyer or even Trump himself would >>make
    that kind of statement directly to the judge.

    I have to start taking my medicine again, to not notice when I switched
    from Congress to courts. Sorry.

    Okay, how about this:

    When Margery Taylor Greene refused to address Dr. Anthony Fauci as
    Doctor, in a committee hearing a few days ago. would it be contempt if
    he answered her question, "Margie, that's an interesting question...."?




    After all, it seemed like she was trying to get close to him.
    --


    I suspect if Fauci answered the question in that manner there would be
    laughter and the exchange might be treated as a joke. If Greene then said something like "Kindly address me as 'Representative Green'", Fauci would no doubt comply. By the way, an individual Congressperson cannot unilaterally issue a contempt charge, as in a court. You would need a vote by the
    Committee at minimum, and in practice the entire House would also have to
    vote on it.

    --

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  • From Barry Gold@21:1/5 to micky on Thu Jun 13 15:36:41 2024
    On 6/7/2024 11:10 PM, micky wrote:
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 6 Jun 2024 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]... >>>
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" >>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >>>>> point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to >>>>> one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you, >>>>>
    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where >>>>> they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" is >>>> grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with a >>>> subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to
    testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge Aileen >>> Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be affected
    by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you think
    you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the
    lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."


    Courtrooms are different from Congress. Congress just wants answers to
    their questions, and if you refuse their requests for info, that's when you >> are likely to be hit with a contempt charge. But you're not dealing with a >> judge who is trying to control a courtroom. A judge in a courtroom expects >> a certain degree of deference and decorum, and I do think a defendant or
    lawyer who says what you quote could be hit with a contempt charge for those >> specific words. I also doubt if any lawyer or even Trump himself would make >> that kind of statement directly to the judge.

    I have to start taking my medicine again, to not notice when I switched
    from Congress to courts. Sorry.

    Okay, how about this:

    When Margery Taylor Greene refused to address Dr. Anthony Fauci as
    Doctor, in a committee hearing a few days ago. would it be contempt if
    he answered her question, "Margie, that's an interesting question...."?




    After all, it seemed like she was trying to get close to him.

    Whether or not she was trying to get close to him, it's not contempt of Congress. As others have pointed out, CoCongress is refusing to show up
    and testify, or refusing to comply with a demand to bring physical
    evidence like papers.

    --
    I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to Gold on Thu Jun 13 21:20:25 2024
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:36:41 -0700 (PDT), Barry
    Gold <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/7/2024 11:10 PM, micky wrote:
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 6 Jun 2024 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT), "Rick"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on my >>>>>> point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you say to >>>>>> one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for you, >>>>>>
    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where >>>>>> they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for you" is
    grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply with a
    subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to >>>>> testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge Aileen >>>> Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be affected >>>> by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you think >>>> you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the
    lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."


    Courtrooms are different from Congress. Congress just wants answers to
    their questions, and if you refuse their requests for info, that's when you >>> are likely to be hit with a contempt charge. But you're not dealing with a
    judge who is trying to control a courtroom. A judge in a courtroom expects >>> a certain degree of deference and decorum, and I do think a defendant or >>> lawyer who says what you quote could be hit with a contempt charge for those
    specific words. I also doubt if any lawyer or even Trump himself would make
    that kind of statement directly to the judge.

    I have to start taking my medicine again, to not notice when I switched
    from Congress to courts. Sorry.

    Okay, how about this:

    When Margery Taylor Greene refused to address Dr. Anthony Fauci as
    Doctor, in a committee hearing a few days ago. would it be contempt if
    he answered her question, "Margie, that's an interesting question...."?




    After all, it seemed like she was trying to get close to him.

    Whether or not she was trying to get close to him, it's not contempt of >Congress. As others have pointed out, CoCongress is refusing to show up
    and testify, or refusing to comply with a demand to bring physical
    evidence like papers.

    In that case, why are witness before committees unreasonably pleasant
    and polite?

    When Alvin Bragg testifies before some kangaroo committeee in July
    almost half of those who asks questions will embed falsehoods and
    accusations or outright lies in them, and he will answer, I expect,
    overly politely. I would say, Your embeeded assumption [that...] is
    nonsense and you're either gullible and believe nonsense, or you're
    lying. But he won't say that.

    When Michael J. Fox testified about Parkingson's Disease in 1988, one
    senator (Guess which party) told him he didn't believe his disease was
    as serious as it appeared. I'm rather slow-witted, but I think I would
    have thought of this in time and would have said, "You've known me for
    20 minutes from 15 feet away and you're already calling a liar. How much
    time should I take before I do the same to you?" but of course all he
    did is repeat something similar to what he'd said in his opening
    statement.
    [There are several videos and transcripts of his testimony, but I
    could only find his opening statement, and no questioning by the usual suspects.]


    There are loads and loads of examples. Is it only that the witnesses
    were "raised right", taught to say please and thank you, or are they
    afraid of contempt charges which apparently would be impossible for just
    not submissively taking crap from committee members?

    And they act this way even when the party that agress with them is in
    the majority, and the vote will still go their way.

    Failure to call out the Congreesmen and Senators when they are lying or
    using false embedded asssumptions makes it look like they are reasonable
    and the truth or honor of the witnnesses is dubious, even when it's the reverse.

    --
    I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
    I am not a lawyer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rick@21:1/5 to micky on Fri Jun 14 10:39:50 2024
    "micky" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:36:41 -0700 (PDT), Barry
    Gold <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/7/2024 11:10 PM, micky wrote:
    In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 6 Jun 2024 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT), "Rick" >>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT),
    "Rick"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    "micky" wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    I tried to google this and found slightly related things, but not on >>>>>>> my
    point.

    If you are a witness at a congressional committee hearing and you >>>>>>> say to
    one of the congressmen,

    I have plenty respect for Congress, but I have no respect for >>>>>>> you,

    are you off the hook?

    Or can they get you for contempt?

    Has this been litigated.

    And as an aside, do state legislatures have committee hearings where >>>>>>> they threaten people with contempt?


    I do not believe that telling a congressman "I have no respect for >>>>>> you" is
    grounds for contempt. I presume contempt means refusing to comply >>>>>> with a
    subpoena, or refusing to turn over requested documents or refusing to >>>>>> testify.

    Do you think it would be considered contempt if you said to Judge
    Aileen
    Cannon, "I think it's great that you don't let your rulings be
    affected
    by considerations of your own reputation and that you rule as you
    think
    you should even if it causes you to be be regarded as ignorant of the >>>>> lawy and a hack and a stooge for Donald Trump."


    Courtrooms are different from Congress. Congress just wants answers to >>>> their questions, and if you refuse their requests for info, that's when >>>> you
    are likely to be hit with a contempt charge. But you're not dealing
    with a
    judge who is trying to control a courtroom. A judge in a courtroom
    expects
    a certain degree of deference and decorum, and I do think a defendant
    or
    lawyer who says what you quote could be hit with a contempt charge for >>>> those
    specific words. I also doubt if any lawyer or even Trump himself would >>>> make
    that kind of statement directly to the judge.

    I have to start taking my medicine again, to not notice when I switched
    from Congress to courts. Sorry.

    Okay, how about this:

    When Margery Taylor Greene refused to address Dr. Anthony Fauci as
    Doctor, in a committee hearing a few days ago. would it be contempt if
    he answered her question, "Margie, that's an interesting question...."?




    After all, it seemed like she was trying to get close to him.

    Whether or not she was trying to get close to him, it's not contempt of >>Congress. As others have pointed out, CoCongress is refusing to show up
    and testify, or refusing to comply with a demand to bring physical
    evidence like papers.

    In that case, why are witness before committees unreasonably pleasant
    and polite?

    When Alvin Bragg testifies before some kangaroo committeee in July
    almost half of those who asks questions will embed falsehoods and
    accusations or outright lies in them, and he will answer, I expect,
    overly politely. I would say, Your embeeded assumption [that...] is
    nonsense and you're either gullible and believe nonsense, or you're
    lying. But he won't say that.

    When Michael J. Fox testified about Parkingson's Disease in 1988, one
    senator (Guess which party) told him he didn't believe his disease was
    as serious as it appeared. I'm rather slow-witted, but I think I would
    have thought of this in time and would have said, "You've known me for
    20 minutes from 15 feet away and you're already calling a liar. How much
    time should I take before I do the same to you?" but of course all he
    did is repeat something similar to what he'd said in his opening
    statement.
    [There are several videos and transcripts of his testimony, but I
    could only find his opening statement, and no questioning by the usual >suspects.]


    There are loads and loads of examples. Is it only that the witnesses
    were "raised right", taught to say please and thank you, or are they
    afraid of contempt charges which apparently would be impossible for just
    not submissively taking crap from committee members?

    And they act this way even when the party that agress with them is in
    the majority, and the vote will still go their way.

    Failure to call out the Congreesmen and Senators when they are lying or
    using false embedded asssumptions makes it look like they are reasonable
    and the truth or honor of the witnnesses is dubious, even when it's the >reverse.


    I think the reason most people act polite before Congress is that they
    probably just don't want to be there. It has nothing to do with fearing a contempt charge, which, to be fair, is pretty uncommon. Being called before Congress is a bit like being sent to the Principal's office as a kid. You don't want to be there, you don't want to make waves, so you just try to be polite, answer their questions and then be on your way. It doesn't matter
    if you're an Alvin Bragg or a Mark Zuckerberg or an Anthony Fauci, just
    about no one wants to be called before Congress.

    Yes, there are exceptions. Some people will want to grandstand or make political points of their own or plead for a particular cause. Some people
    are just argumentative by nature and may enjoy being in the spotlight. But
    I think most people realize that you really can't win in an argument with a politician (who, by definition, is probably a pretty good debater), so you
    just let them do their thing and then you try to get out of there as
    gracefully and quickly as possible.

    --

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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