I'm having a problem booting my desktop XP. I'd like to keep it
running but in some kind of "sleep" mode when I stop using it so I
don't need to reboot. I would like all program that were open to
still be open when I resume use by pressing a key on the keyboard. I
would also like the monitor to go On and Off automatically as the
computer goes in and out of such a "sleep" mode.

I read the Help file, but don't quite understand which choice of
Sleep, Hibernate, System Standby would do the job for me.

?

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<[email protected]> wrote

| I read the Help file, but don't quite understand which choice of
| Sleep, Hibernate, System Standby would do the job for me.
|

I use sleep, which shows in the shutdown window as "Standby".
It does what you want. Go into device manager and disable the
ability to wake from mouse on the Power Management tab.
Otherwise any slight vibration may power up the computer.
When you want it to power up, press a key.

That will leave RAM powered to keep the system booted in
the configuration you left it. Hibernate saves that config to
disk and also uses a gigantic, otherise unnecesary file, hiberfil.sys.

There can be some limitations based on what a motherboard
is set up to handle. There can also be quirks. I have a Dell Win7
that usually locks up if I put in on standby. No setting in the
BIOS seems to help. I've never figured out the problem. It just
never comes back once put to sleep. Hopefully you won't have
any problems. I've never had a problem with an XP machine.

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On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 09:15:55 -0400, "Newyana2"
<[email protected]> wrote:

<[email protected]> wrote

| I read the Help file, but don't quite understand which choice of
| Sleep, Hibernate, System Standby would do the job for me.
|

I use sleep, which shows in the shutdown window as "Standby".
It does what you want. Go into device manager and disable the
ability to wake from mouse on the Power Management tab.
Otherwise any slight vibration may power up the computer.
When you want it to power up, press a key.

That will leave RAM powered to keep the system booted in
the configuration you left it. Hibernate saves that config to
disk and also uses a gigantic, otherise unnecesary file, hiberfil.sys.

There can be some limitations based on what a motherboard
is set up to handle. There can also be quirks. I have a Dell Win7
that usually locks up if I put in on standby. No setting in the
BIOS seems to help. I've never figured out the problem. It just
never comes back once put to sleep. Hopefully you won't have
any problems. I've never had a problem with an XP machine.

My XP Pro Power menus has other options tied into the selection to do
what I thought I wanted to do. I ain't sure of what the heck some of
those options will do. So, what I am going to do is hook up my wife's
old XP and use it. It doesn't have some of the features of my XP, but
I'll live with it until I get my own XP into the shop and have a new
C: and a few other things fixed on it. It's OLD.

I just can't bring myself to use one of the Win 7 desktops we have. I
hate 7. Besides, I'm two years shy of ninety and I don't think I'm
going to be around a whole lot longer, so why aggravate the bleep
outta myself with Win 7 for the possible few years I have left. :o)

Thanks for trying, though.

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On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 01:37:05 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

The reply from that jeff guy was actually from me. I replied with the
wrong newsreader which has a different nym than the tfrank one.

See, that's what happens when one gets old and decrepit. :o(

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On 3/18/2023 5:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:

I'm having a problem booting my desktop XP. I'd like to keep it
running but in some kind of "sleep" mode when I stop using it so I
don't need to reboot. I would like all program that were open to
still be open when I resume use by pressing a key on the keyboard. I
would also like the monitor to go On and Off automatically as the
computer goes in and out of such a "sleep" mode.

I read the Help file, but don't quite understand which choice of
Sleep, Hibernate, System Standby would do the job for me.

?

This utility (no longer available), is the key to determining whether
the WinXP PC is properly prepared for the customer.

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/products/Oemtest/v1.1/WOSTest/Tools/Acpi/dumppo.exe

dumppo.exe cap
dumppo.exe admin cap

power capabilties
...
System states supported.: S1 S3 S4 S5

Of these:

These states would need a UPS (uninterruptable power supply).
These two states save your session.

S1 System Standby (monitor goes black, but system box wastes electricity)
S3 Suspend to RAM (Sleep) (only RAM sticks are powered, CPU off, monitor black)

The S4 state saves your session too, but it is slower coming back by some seconds.

S4 Hibernate (to C:\hiberfil.sys , holds system image)
This is the "power safe" state, and the session survives power outages.
Whether you have a UPS, does not matter if using this "safe" power saving state.

And these last ones are bookkeeping items. These don't keep a session.
Selecting "Shutdown", is the S5 state. Flipping the OFF switch on the back of the
PC, saves the maximum possible amount of power.

S5 Soft Off (will need a fresh boot, by pressing front button) [PC uses several watts]

OFF This is the mechanical OFF switch on the back of the PC, removes AC. [PC uses zero]

The "dumppo.exe" utility, can be used to "add back" menu choices
when they are lost. Making dumb choices in the BIOS (I've done it),
removes good options in the shutdown menu. Then, after correcting
a BIOS (S1+S3) setting, enabling ACPI 2.0 in the BIOS,
you need dumppo.exe (12KB) to tell the OS to put the menu items back.
A PC can lose those settings in the BIOS, when you change the CMOS battery.

DUMPPO.EXE admin /ac minsleep=s3 # System Standby and Sleep enabled
# The AC refers to laptops and being on
# Mains Power. The other option is battery.
# Program has no help. Documentation: Non-existent!
# Just one enthusiast site, contains our info.

DUMPPO.EXE admin /ac minsleep=s4 # You can extend it to Hibernate

*******

Hardware wise, old machines (not an ATX, a Soft Off PC) have only "APM"
and not "ACPI".

APM was Power Management, with a very simplified set of states.
One of the states was "It is Safe to Turn Off this PC" in Win98.
The machines only had a switch on the back of the machine. Power
switching was mechanical.

Whereas ACPI exposes the soft control features of ATX equipment,
such as sleeping and restoring a session by pressing the front (soft)
control button for the hardware. For WinXP, generally the ACPI 2.0 spec
is the lowest version of the standard that works well. ACPI 1.1 kinda works, but the problem was that BIOS implementations were "a bit shaky" and
the PC might not flip in and out of these states properly. In an
Asus BIOS for the year 2002 or so, there is a setting to enable
ACPI 2.0 (why you have to enable this, is just so silly).

If a machine does not show all the menu items people tell you about,
then it takes BIOS corrections (S1+S3 and the ACPI 2.0 setting), then
some work with the dumppo.exe (no longer available) utility. The FTP
server was shut down some time ago, which is why finding "dumppo.exe"
(it's not on the CD) is difficult. If the staff at Microsoft had
a clue, this could have been sent out via a Windows Update, eons ago!!!

Name: dumppo.exe
Size: 13072 bytes (12 KiB)
SHA1: 4DDB6611E12A53BF05F458803BE4A9291BC5A229

There may be two of those in circulation.

Summary: If all your menu items are present, you likely need to
do nothing to use them. The soft button on the front, should
always raise a sleeping machine. Programming the power state
in Device Manager, for the mouse and keyboard, that is a discretionary
adjustment activity. ("Allow this device to wake the PC")

Just remember that leaving the machine
in Sleep, and then your house mains power fails, causes the
sleep session to be lost, and potentially some damage to the
file system. NTFS has the best "survival characteristics.
FAT32, not so much. WinXP can also be run on a FAT32 filesystem,
as that is what I was using (before my WinXP machine had a hardware
failure).

While the Hibernate choice saves a session, and it is power safe,
it is slower. By a bit. Only RAM in usage, is written out to
the hiberfil.sys for safe keeping. That's why the Hibernate is
faster than it otherwise has to be.

And while there is something called Hybrid Sleep, I don't know
if WinXP has it or not, and that's why I did not write it up.
It is an S3 sleep, that keeps a safety copy in the hiberfil.sys.
The ACPI spec, may not document that quirk. It does not have its
own label as such. It is basically S3, that converts to S4 on a
loss of power.

Paul

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<[email protected]> wrote

| I just can't bring myself to use one of the Win 7 desktops we have.

I feel the same way. I have Win7 that I use mostly for
streaming movies to the TV through Firefox. I have a Win10
laptop. I hate laptops. But it's handy for things like logging
into my doctor's website, which is a mess that only works in
the latest browsers. For normal use it's my home-made XP
box, trackball and 27" monitor that I've mounted on a drawer
slide for back-to-front adjustment... Now that's living.

You can also just experiment with settings. At worst you
might just have to reboot. Though it sounds like it might be
time to get a new SSD and re-install the system. I wonder
if a computer shop is going to be willing to do that. They're
likely to just tell you that you need to buy a new computer
of their making. They'll prattle on about how XP isn't safe
and won't run any software. And to some extent they'll be
right. Unless you have all the old installers for your software,
you may be unable to get it back after a new install.

Paul has explained the details of your options, but that also
depends on BIOS and if you could understand what he wrote
then you probably wouldn't be here. You'd be busy copying your
disk image backup to the SSD you'd just put in. :)

For what it's worth, you can try these things for slow XP:

Open Internet Explorer -> Tools -> Internet
Options. Delete all cache (stored files) and
set the cache limit small -- maybe 50 MB.

Also in IE, disable any add-ons that are not
necessary. If they don't use IE then remove
all extensions and BHOs via the Registry.

(IE is tied into the system, affecting Explorer.)

Do a disk cleanup and have it delete all Temp
files.

Go to sysinternals.com. Download Autoruns.
Use that to limit the programs that run at
startup. A lot of software sets itself to run at
startup. Auto-backup, iTunes, printer junk....
there can be a dozen or more things running that
shouldn't be. 600 MB in RAM is far more than should
be being used.

Disable any unnecessary services; especially
indexing.

Never use Symantec software. Avoid anti-virus
if possible. It's an outdated technology that busies
your system with scanning everything you touch.
If you do use it, adjust it so that it only scans
downloads.

Download Procmon from Sysinternals and see
what is happening when nothing should be.

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Paul,

I was waiting to see you post somewhere,..

Is the site back up or what? None of your links worked...

At present I don't have any issues but I was wondering is
there some other site or way we can stay in contact in case
this site goes down? I would hate to loose contact in case
I have a problem.

Thanks,
Robert

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On 3/21/2023 11:03 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Paul,

I was waiting to see you post somewhere,..

Is the site back up or what? None of your links worked...

At present I don't have any issues but I was wondering is
there some other site or way we can stay in contact in case
this site goes down? I would hate to loose contact in case
I have a problem.

Thanks,
Robert

Mixmin was down for a month or so, and it came back.
And that's why I was able to post.

AIOE is not coming back.

And Eternal-September removed the microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
and other microsoft.* groups.

One server I applied to, the administrator did not respond.

But otherwise, the picking are slim, for free servers.

And Google does not have all the alt groups that we use
for the other windows Oses. alt.windows7.general would be
a good group for your Windows 7 questions, but Google does
not have that.

I don't check Mixmin all that often, which is why there
could be additional unintentional delays. It's been broken
for so long, there wasn't a reason to check.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I tried your links to MixMin which didn't work
and also my own searches but could not get it to
run or understand how?

So AIOE is down forever and Seamonkey is useless?
I also checked the other news groups and as you say
there aren't any.

Since as you say you don't check Mixmin often
and there may be a delay if I have a problem should
I just try posting it here?

Hopefully they won't take down this site but isn't
there some other forum or way we could stay in
contact should I need assistance? It would be easier
if either of us had a YouTube channel or something
like that where I could email you msg's if I needed
help.

I just hope nothing happens, but you know my history
and right now I'm afraid to even open up the computers
and use my mini-vac to clean them out because something
may happen and you're not available if it does.

Thankfully we did the start switch already. That was a
very elegant solution on your part. No soldering and no
crimping and it's under the faux optical drive door so you
never see it and keeps it clean.

I still do my monthly backups on the 1st of the month for
both computers. So if things get bad I could always just
restore it I guess but I would really miss your guidance.
You've helped me through many difficult times.

Many Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 3/22/2023 6:51 PM, Paul wrote:

Mixmin was down for a month or so, and it came back.
And that's why I was able to post.

AIOE is not coming back.

And Eternal-September removed the microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
and other microsoft.* groups.

One server I applied to, the administrator did not respond.

But otherwise, the picking are slim, for free servers.

And Google does not have all the alt groups that we use
for the other windows Oses. alt.windows7.general would be
a good group for your Windows 7 questions, but Google does
not have that.

I don't check Mixmin all that often, which is why there
could be additional unintentional delays. It's been broken
for so long, there wasn't a reason to check.

   Paul

Paul, Robert:

You may want to try a PAID usenet connection. (As someone once said; "If you insist on everything on the Internet being free you are going to end up with something that looks like AM radio sounds")

I have been using Astraweb since 2008 and have not yet exhausted my $10!

More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astraweb

Unfortunately I have not found a browser that runs on XP that can load their current web site. Perhaps a friend, neighbor or library is a possiblity.

John


--
\\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"John Dulak" <[email protected]> wrote

| I have been using Astraweb since 2008 and have not yet exhausted my $10!
|
| More info:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astraweb
|

paganini.bofh.team

No signup. No fee. No login. Though I don't know anything about
who runs it or where they are. If that one goes down I might
look into a paid option. But it's also only worthwhile to me if they
host the ms groups and plan to continue doing so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 3/23/2023 7:38 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried your links to MixMin which didn't work
and also my own searches but could not get it to
run or understand how?

So AIOE is down forever and Seamonkey is useless?
I also checked the other news groups and as you say
there aren't any.

Since as you say you don't check Mixmin often
and there may be a delay if I have a problem should
I just try posting it here?

Hopefully they won't take down this site but isn't
there some other forum or way we could stay in
contact should I need assistance? It would be easier
if either of us had a YouTube channel or something
like that where I could email you msg's if I needed
help.

I just hope nothing happens, but you know my history
and right now I'm afraid to even open up the computers
and use my mini-vac to clean them out because something
may happen and you're not available if it does.

Thankfully we did the start switch already. That was a
very elegant solution on your part. No soldering and no
crimping and it's under the faux optical drive door so you
never see it and keeps it clean.

I still do my monthly backups on the 1st of the month for
both computers. So if things get bad I could always just
restore it I guess but I would really miss your guidance.
You've helped me through many difficult times.

Many Thanks,
Robert

news.mixmin.net is on port 563. Which is SSL/TLS security.
The server uses a LetsEncrypt certificate. There is no account
required.

paganini.bofh.team is on port 119 (the default if you were
using Seamonkey for News). Seamonkey for USENET news is
very similar to Thunderbird for USENET news. Paganini uses
no authentication and no account is required. It appears
paganini does not use Cleanfeed and does not filter off
content that does not belong in the group.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/MG7M7h2c/set-up-a-usenet-client.gif

Paul

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On 3/23/2023 11:17 AM, John Dulak wrote:

Unfortunately I have not found a browser that runs on XP that can load their current web site. Perhaps a friend, neighbor or library is a possiblity.

John

While Astraweb's home page will not load on Windows XP Thunderbird 52.9.1 (32-bit) WILL access their Usenet feed with no problems on Windows XP. Windows 10 or beter is only required for sign up but not access.

John
--
\\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

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