I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


This concerns the 8500.

It isn't a problem per se,

What I do is go to YouTube and login and then log out
which creates many screens/topics that I can click on.
I found this by accident awhile ago and now I use it all
the time.

Anyway, I click on a topic that interests me and I have
to click the back arrow to backspace out of it because
the backspace key doesn't work in this scenario but it
takes me back to a blank page and I have to click reload
to show the page or sometimes it'll go back to before I
logged in.

Everything else is fine and works normally. This never
occurred before and I'm just wondering why is it happening
now?


Thanks,
Robert

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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I should also add that it doesn't do this every time.

Robert

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On 12/23/2022 7:17 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower,  with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This concerns the 8500.

It isn't a problem per se,

What I do is go to YouTube and login and then log out
which creates many screens/topics that I can click on.
I found this by accident awhile ago and now I use it all
the time.

Anyway, I click on a topic that interests me and I have
to click the back arrow to backspace out of it because
the backspace key doesn't work in this scenario but it
takes me back to a blank page and I have to click reload
to show the page or sometimes it'll go back to before I
logged in.

Everything else is fine and works normally. This never
occurred before and I'm just wondering why is it happening
now?

Thanks,
Robert

To me, this sounds like an issue with Youtube.

You generated a page of info while logged in.

You used some of it while logged out.

Then, you went back to the page where you were
logged in. They should have requested you to log
back in, if the page is to be regenerated as before.
In the logged out state, your return to the
authenticated page gives a blank page, because
the "custom content" for a non-logged in person
is "zip" :-)

Just a guess,
Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I thought it might be something like that.

Also, when I do my monthly backups I'm
going to first see if it detects the CD before
I try hitting F12.

In passing, the car eng check light is still out
and hope it stays that way.

Merry Christmas !
Robert

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Robert in CA <[email protected]> wrote:

What I do is go to YouTube and login and then log out
which creates many screens/topics that I can click on.
I found this by accident awhile ago and now I use it all
the time.

Anyway, I click on a topic that interests me and I have
to click the back arrow to backspace out of it because
the backspace key doesn't work in this scenario but it
takes me back to a blank page and I have to click reload
to show the page or sometimes it'll go back to before I
logged in.

Everything else is fine and works normally. This never
occurred before and I'm just wondering why is it happening
now?

Look at history. See what is the URL for the just-prior web page. It
could be blank, an interstitial page, uses the HTML refresh attribute,
or employs Javascript.

A long time ago, Mozilla killed the Backspace key to perform the Back
button's operation. That was to make the effect the same across all
OSes since Firefox is multi-platform. To return the Backspace key to
perform the Back button's operation (which is to navigate to the prior
web page in history which may not be a good page to move back to), you
have to go into about:config to change browser.backspace_action to 0
(zero). The default value (which also gets used if the setting is
undefined) is 2. See:

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.backspace_action

With all the info you gave, the most critical piece was which web
browser and version of it you are using, and if you've tried more than
one web browser, and tried a fresh profile in each one to eliminate
artifacts in behavior due to add-ons or tweaks to the web browser.

Since Javascript could be involved in site navigation, especially with a Javascript-loving site, like Youtube, and blocking or limitation on
Javascript can render erratic or unexpected behavior. The purpose of adblockers is to break web pages by refusing to allow HTML or script in
a web page from accessing all its resources, especially those at a
different domain. Blocking those resources means they cannot be used,
and often web programmers don't plan for their code to not have access
to those resources; i.e., they don't code to check the resources are
available, or defined when they get around to using them (i.e., no
"catch" clause or fall-through code), so the code flow bounces in an
erratic direction. If you use add-ons that block Javascript (from all
sources, or even just 3rd-party sources the code expects to access) or
use adblockers whose purpose is to break web pages, try disabling those add-ons, or add exclusions to them for enough of Youtube's resources to
get the page working again. I use uBlock Origin in its expert mode
which shows which resources from where got blocked, and I can decide
which to temporarily or permanently allow, if any, to get a web page to
be functional enough.

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I agree I should of mentioned I use FireFox V108.0.1

I appreciate your comments but I'm not going to change
browsers or go into about config. for the simple reason
that it worked fine previously and there's nothing wrong
with my system.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I guess I spoke too soon because the
engine check light came back on. I've
kept a log of it and thought you might
be interested in seeing it.

9-8-22 - check light came on, then went off

10-14-22 - check light came on, then went off

10-24-22 - check light came on

11-4-22 - check light went off

11-10-22 - check light came on, then went off

11-14-22 - check light came on

11-15-22 - check light went off

11-20-22 - check light came on

12-12-22 - check light went off

12-26-22 - check light came on

I'm not going to take it in again just yet
and especially with this erratic behavior
and I've already spent near $2000 on it.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 12/26/2022 12:15 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I guess I spoke too soon because the
engine check light came back on. I've
kept a log of it and thought you might
be interested in seeing it.

9-8-22 - check light came on, then went off

10-14-22 - check light came on, then went off

10-24-22 - check light came on

11-4-22 - check light went off

11-10-22 - check light came on, then went off

11-14-22 - check light came on

11-15-22 - check light went off

11-20-22 - check light came on

12-12-22 - check light went off

12-26-22 - check light came on

I'm not going to take it in again just yet
and especially with this erratic behavior
and I've already spent near $2000 on it.

Robert

You need an OBDII scanner and check for Pending codes.

https://www.kbb.com/obd-ii/on-board-diagnostics-guide/

The equipping of the car, varies with model year. At
one time, you could barely get a set of basic codes from
cars. That article mentions that now some cars have Bluetooth,
and you need a program for your SmartPhone to read that out.
I believe you can also get devices that plug into the
diagnostic port below the steering wheel area, and convert
the info to Bluetooth.

Mine is just a cable that plugs into the diagnostic port
(a wired scanner), and the diagnostic port also has +12V on it,
to power the scanner. That is how the display on the scanner lights up,
when you put the key in.

I found a web page for my car, with the basic codes on it,
which includes the nuisance ones like "Emissions: gas cap loose".
Then when you go to the dealership and buy a gas cap, it's
the wrong one :-/ (Even though you bring the VIN and the
part number comes from their computer, and the part number
label is on the bag with the gas cap... it's still the wrong one.)

I would think, that any time the red light comes on, there should
be a code ready to be picked up by the scanner. If the code is
"transient", then a Pending code is delivered. Any condition
which leaves the red light on solid, then that would also
be reported as a solid error in the scanner. Both can be
cleared by using the button on the scanner interface for
clearing the codes.

While you can run the cooling reservoir too low, other
faults include sludge plugging up the cooling system. Some
car models are more known for this than others. Same goes
for lubricant (oil) sludge on engines which "run too cool". One
of my cars even had a recall for the cam shaft, because
the oil distribution system was not lubricating the
last cam on the cam shaft. So the cam shaft got replaced for
free.

*******

One of your automotive parts retailers in the US, allows customers
to borrow a scanner from the desk, and go out and check the
car. If a person is skint for cash, that's an alternative
to buying one. Assuming you can get your car to the
place to use it.

It's too bad the connector is so inconvenient
to work with. I always had to do contortions to be able to
see the connector so I could mate the cable. The people who
designed that connector, certainly did not worry about
"smooth capture" in the connector design. The connector
is "robust" but "minimally functional" in terms of how
smooth the insertion is.

If they'd designed it properly, it could have been just a
USB connector. But just our luck, they use a plastic automotive
connector.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I think buying/borrowing a scanner and trying to
diagnose the problem myself is beyond me and not
something I want to do. Yet it's the weirdest thing I've
ever seen. How can it turn itself on/off ? This is the 6th
time

Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to affecting the
performance of the car or I would take it in immediately
but I've spent $2000 I didn't have on this already.

I had the engine cleaned so there shouldn't be any
sludge buildup and I change the oil every 4 months
and changed it around the 1st of Dec. I do need my
wipers fixed because they don't squirt fluid anymore.
I've already tried to clean them with a needle but that
can wait.

In the meantime, I thought I would drop off the log I've
kept and let him think about it and when I do go in to fix
the wipers he might have an answer for it and I can get
fixed then. Thankfully, the car still drives OK. The problem
is that the damn check light is wired to (76) possible error
codes so it could be anything.

Every time I bring the car in they hook it up to the diagnostic
machine just as you describe and you would think it would
tell them exactly what its is, So this next time I'm going
to ask what it is before I spend any more $$.

Thanks,
Robert.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 12/26/2022 10:52 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I think buying/borrowing a scanner and trying to
diagnose the problem myself is beyond me and not
something I want to do. Yet it's the weirdest thing I've
ever seen. How can it turn itself on/off ? This is the 6th
time

Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to affecting the
performance of the car or I would take it in immediately
but I've spent $2000 I didn't have on this already.

I had the engine cleaned so there shouldn't be any
sludge buildup and I change the oil every 4 months
and changed it around the 1st of Dec. I do need my
wipers fixed because they don't squirt fluid anymore.
I've already tried to clean them with a needle but that
can wait.

In the meantime, I thought I would drop off the log I've
kept and let him think about it and when I do go in to fix
the wipers he might have an answer for it and I can get
fixed then. Thankfully, the car still drives OK. The problem
is that the damn check light is wired to (76) possible error
codes so it could be anything.

Every time I bring the car in they hook it up to the diagnostic
machine just as you describe and you would think it would
tell them exactly what its is, So this next time I'm going
to ask what it is before I spend any more $$.

Thanks,
Robert.

The reason I use the scanner, is to get some idea whether
the code is serious... or is fluffy. At one point, mine was
throwing an intake manifold code, and about all that would
do is affect acceleration, and I hadn't really noticed a
performance loss as such. The loose gas cap code, well...
that's for Mr.Fluffy. You check the usual things, see if
the charcoal filter has fallen off the back of the car and
so on. The mount for the charcoal filter gets splash water
from the back wheels which isn't good for it.

When the power steering radiator rusted out on the previous
car, I just bypassed that with a length of tubing myself.
It only "needs" a power steering radiator when you are
rallying in the hills, not when you're picking up groceries.
The age of the car, and sourcing a part, is part of the
decision process. For example, one car, the filler tube pipe
was no longer available, so they got one for me from a local
scrap yard. Which was a little weird (probably off a different
model year), but performed the function and the "gas cap loose"
code went away after it was fitted.

While a code is Fluffy, there's a lot of stuff that can rust
off or fall off, and sometimes you get "root cause" by
the "stain in the driveway" :-) I think that was the alert
that the filler pipe needed to be changed.

I got a small amount of oily fluid the other day, near the
back bumper. You would think there would not be any oily
fluids back there, but the twits fit the back bumper with
shock absorbers, tiny ones, and when one of the bumper
shocks rusts through, the fluid inside it comes out on the
driveway. Fortunately, there's no code for that.

Paul

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On 12/27/2022 2:21 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I know, and I have been looking, listening and trying to
figure it all out myself. You know how it is, when your car
doesn't feel right and I have checked under the hood and
car but nothing and like I said I don't notice anything wrong
but as you point out that doesn't mean there isn't .

Obviously it must be 'something' but I can't for the life of me
figure out what it is.

I agree, one of the major problems can be sourcing the parts
and my car is 33 years old. We had a problem when I needed
the sensor probe because they don't make them anymore but
by luck we found one. I asked if it was the EGR valve or catalytic
converter but he said no. They also replaced the radiator
cap during the process of cleaning the engine.

I should mention that I've been taking my car to the same shop
for the past 18 years. Also I don't drive it all that much. As you say
just to get groceries and maybe to the VA once in awhile.

I'm hoping with my log and the past repairs we've already done
on the car the guy can have a better idea when he hooks up the
scanner. At least we know what it isn't by all the previous repairs
using reverse logic and maybe that will help.

Thanks again for all your good links and advice, I appreciate it.

Robert

Robert:

Something simple you can try.

I have a service manual for my 2003 CIVIC (This is the 2 inch thick x 8 x 10 manual NOT the owners manual that came with the car) and I found something interesting. When some types of servive are performed the Engine Control Unit (ECU) needs to "relearn" the engine. This is acomplished by removing the fuse that powers the ECU for ~15 - 20 seconds, reinstall the fuse, start the car and let it idle for 10 - 20 minutes. ( You can also disconnect the battery but will lose all your radio settings and some other "remembered" parameters ). The fuse panel is probably located under the hood near the battery and the inside cover should have a diagram for which fuse does what. The owners manual that came with
the car may also have information on fuse locations and functions.

Might be worth a try.

It would be helpful if you had a "code reader" that would tell you WHY the check
enging light is on. Many auto supply stores like Advance Auto etc. will do this as a free service.

HTH&GL

John

--
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'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I know, and I have been looking, listening and trying to
figure it all out myself. You know how it is, when your car
doesn't feel right and I have checked under the hood and
car but nothing and like I said I don't notice anything wrong
but as you point out that doesn't mean there isn't .

Obviously it must be 'something' but I can't for the life of me
figure out what it is.

I agree, one of the major problems can be sourcing the parts
and my car is 33 years old. We had a problem when I needed
the sensor probe because they don't make them anymore but
by luck we found one. I asked if it was the EGR valve or catalytic
converter but he said no. They also replaced the radiator
cap during the process of cleaning the engine.

I should mention that I've been taking my car to the same shop
for the past 18 years. Also I don't drive it all that much. As you say
just to get groceries and maybe to the VA once in awhile.

I'm hoping with my log and the past repairs we've already done
on the car the guy can have a better idea when he hooks up the
scanner. At least we know what it isn't by all the previous repairs
using reverse logic and maybe that will help.

Thanks again for all your good links and advice, I appreciate it.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Hmmm, actually I would rather disconnect
the battery. I don't care about the radio settings.
There's only a few in my area anyway.

It might be worth a try.


Thanks,
Robert

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I just realized that disconnecting the battery only
clears the check light but I still have the problem.

So I don't think I'll disconnect it after all.

Thanks,
Robert

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