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[gentoo-dev] A new bugzilla keyword for bug investigation

From Agostino Sarubbo@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 10 09:20:01 2025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Good morning everyone,

during tinderbox activity I realized that sometimes there are bugs with unknown causes at
the time of filing.

Examples are:
- no "error: " string
- mysterious test failures
- hidden bugs on build.log but present on config.log and/or additional files
- bugs that may be related to new toolchain components, but not clearly stated

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE
or
- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

or whatever you think is better.

With that KEYWORD we can set-up a saved search and 'experienced' devs can help to
diagnose the issue.

This KEYWORD is supposed to be set manually and not supposed to be set automatically
when there is a missing "error: " string. And obviously it can be used by everyone that
needs help.

Before send this to the mailing list, I talked about that with sam (since he is one of those
who does this activity) and agreed.

What do you think?

Agostino

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>Good morning everyone,
 during tinderbox activity I realized that sometimes there are bugs with unknown causes at the time of filing.
 Examples are:
- no "error: " string
- mysterious test failures
- hidden bugs on build.log but present on config.log and/or additional files
- bugs that may be related to new toolchain components, but not clearly stated
 For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:
 - NEEDS-TRIAGE
or
- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION
 or whatever you think is better.
 With that KEYWORD we can set-up a saved search and 'experienced' devs can help to diagnose the issue.
 This KEYWORD is supposed to be set manually and not supposed to be set automatically when there is a missing "error: " string. And obviously it can be used by everyone
that needs help.
 Before send this to the mailing list, I talked about that with sam (since he is one of those who does this activity) and agreed.
 What do you think?
 Agostino
</body>
</html>

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From Jaco Kroon@21:1/5 to Agostino Sarubbo on Fri Jan 10 17:10:01 2025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
As someone that sometimes calls in help in trying to understand some of
the reports

+1

Yes please. That way I can just indicate help needed and don't have to
load it onto someone I have contact with (typically Sam). I'm sure this
will take some load off of Sam specifically.

Kind regards,
Jaco

On 2025/01/10 10:17, Agostino Sarubbo wrote:

Good morning everyone,

during tinderbox activity I realized that sometimes there are bugs
with unknown causes at the time of filing.

Examples are:

- no "error: " string

- mysterious test failures

- hidden bugs on build.log but present on config.log and/or additional
files

- bugs that may be related to new toolchain components, but not
clearly stated

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE

or

- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

or whatever you think is better.

With that KEYWORD we can set-up a saved search and 'experienced' devs
can help to diagnose the issue.

This KEYWORD is supposed to be set manually and not supposed to be set automatically when there is a missing "error: " string. And obviously
it can be used by everyone that needs help.

Before send this to the mailing list, I talked about that with sam
(since he is one of those who does this activity) and agreed.

What do you think?

Agostino

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
As someone that sometimes calls in help in trying to understand
some of the reports 
 
+1 
 
Yes please. That way I can just indicate help needed and don't
have to load it onto someone I have contact with (typically Sam).
I'm sure this will take some load off of Sam specifically. 

Kind regards, 
Jaco
On 2025/01/10 10:17, Agostino Sarubbo wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2645278.Lt9SDvczpP@fcf">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Good
morning everyone,
 
during
tinderbox activity I realized that sometimes there are bugs with
unknown causes at the time of filing.
 
Examples
are:
- no
"error: " string
-
mysterious test failures
-
hidden bugs on build.log but present on config.log and/or
additional files
-
bugs that may be related to new toolchain components, but not
clearly stated
 
For
that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD,
like:
 
-
NEEDS-TRIAGE
or
-
NEEDS-INVESTIGATION
 
or
whatever you think is better.
 
With
that KEYWORD we can set-up a saved search and 'experienced' devs
can help to diagnose the issue.
 
This
KEYWORD is supposed to be set manually and not supposed to be
set automatically when there is a missing "error: " string. And
obviously it can be used by everyone that needs help.
 
Before
send this to the mailing list, I talked about that with sam
(since he is one of those who does this activity) and agreed.
 
What
do you think?
 
Agostino
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

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From Immolo@21:1/5 to Rich Freeman on Fri Jan 10 17:40:01 2025

I like this idea, but prefer NEEDS-INVESTIGATION over NEEDS-TRIAGE as the latter to me is just the state before bugwranglers assign it.

Using https://bugs.gentoo.org/946338 as an example and following on from
Rich's thinking out loud.
I think the person reporting the bug will be one calling for the NEEDS-INVESTIGATION
as it will be framed in a I found X odd issue, but it's weird I'm the only
one saying it, type of situation.
This would mean we have the fix ready to go but we know we are waiting for
more information from other users before setting on everyone's system unnecessary.

This is how I see it as bugwrangler though, but NEEDS-INVESTIGATION before actioning :)

Kind regards,

immolo

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 at 16:12, Rich Freeman <[email protected]> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:17 AM Agostino Sarubbo <[email protected]> wrote:

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE

or

- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

Makes a lot of sense, though I'm not sure if it could cause confusion
for bug wrangling/etc. I don't think non-prived bugzilla users could
add the keyword though, so probably no impact there?

The bug wranglers might actually like it for marking stuff that can't
be assigned easily? In any case, I'm just thinking out loud about
whether there is anything in the bug wrangling process that needs consideration.

--
Rich

<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>I like this idea, but prefer NEEDS-INVESTIGATION over NEEDS-TRIAGE as the latter to me is just the state before bugwranglers assign it.</div><div> 
</div><div>Using <a href="https://bugs.gentoo.org/946338">https://bugs.gentoo.org/946338</a> as an example and following on from Rich's thinking out loud.</div><div>I think the person reporting the bug will be one
calling for the NEEDS-INVESTIGATION as it will be framed in a I found X odd issue, but it's weird I'm the only one saying it, type of situation. </div><div>This would mean we have the fix
ready to go but we know we are waiting for more information from other users before setting on everyone's system unnecessary.</div><div> </div><div>This is how I see it as bugwrangler
though, but NEEDS-INVESTIGATION before actioning :) </div><div> </div><div>Kind regards,</div><div> </div><div>immolo </div><div> </div><div></div></div> <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 at 16:12, Rich
Freeman <<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:17 AM Agostino
Sarubbo <<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote: 
> 
> For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like: > 
> 
> - NEEDS-TRIAGE 
> 
> or 
> 
> - NEEDS-INVESTIGATION 

Makes a lot of sense, though I'm not sure if it could cause confusion for bug wrangling/etc. I don't think non-prived bugzilla users could add the keyword though, so probably no impact there? 

The bug wranglers might actually like it for marking stuff that can't be assigned easily? In any case, I'm just thinking out loud about whether there is anything in the bug wrangling process that needs consideration. 

-- 
Rich 

</blockquote></div></div>

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From Rich Freeman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jan 10 17:20:01 2025

On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:17 AM Agostino Sarubbo <[email protected]> wrote:

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE

or

- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

Makes a lot of sense, though I'm not sure if it could cause confusion
for bug wrangling/etc. I don't think non-prived bugzilla users could
add the keyword though, so probably no impact there?

The bug wranglers might actually like it for marking stuff that can't
be assigned easily? In any case, I'm just thinking out loud about
whether there is anything in the bug wrangling process that needs consideration.

--
Rich

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From Agostino Sarubbo@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 11 08:00:01 2025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

On venerdì 10 gennaio 2025 17:12:28 CET Rich Freeman wrote:

Makes a lot of sense, though I'm not sure if it could cause confusion
for bug wrangling/etc. I don't think non-prived bugzilla users could
add the keyword though, so probably no impact there?

The bug wranglers might actually like it for marking stuff that can't
be assigned easily? In any case, I'm just thinking out loud about
whether there is anything in the bug wrangling process that needs consideration.

Hello Rich,

in my opinion this is not for wranglers but for submitters.

Basically when you file a bug you are saying: "hey there is this error" while there are some
bugs where there is an ebuild failure and you don't know why and from where it comes.

In case of a bug submitted by a non-privileged user, wrangler will assign to maintainer.
Then maintainer can decide to set a keyword and asking for help.

In some circumstances it will be similar and/or remembers when guru people set "need-
help" keyword/whiteboard.

Agostino

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>On venerdì 10 gennaio 2025 17:12:28 CET Rich Freeman wrote:
> Makes a lot of sense, though I'm not sure if it could cause confusion
> for bug wrangling/etc.  I don't think non-prived bugzilla users could
> add the keyword though, so probably no impact there?
> > The bug wranglers might actually like it for marking stuff that can't
> be assigned easily?  In any case, I'm just thinking out loud about
> whether there is anything in the bug wrangling process that needs
> consideration.
 Hello Rich,
 in my opinion this is not for wranglers but for submitters.
 Basically when you file a bug you are saying: "hey there is this error" while there are some bugs where there is an ebuild failure and you don't know why and from where
it comes.
 In case of a bug submitted by a non-privileged user, wrangler will assign to maintainer. Then maintainer can decide to set a keyword and asking for help.
 In some circumstances it will be similar and/or remembers when guru people set "need-help" keyword/whiteboard.
 Agostino
</body>
</html>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From Sam James@21:1/5 to Agostino Sarubbo on Sat Jan 18 19:10:02 2025

Agostino Sarubbo <[email protected]> writes:

Good morning everyone,

during tinderbox activity I realized that sometimes there are bugs with unknown causes at the time of filing.

Examples are:

- no "error: " string

- mysterious test failures

- hidden bugs on build.log but present on config.log and/or additional files

- bugs that may be related to new toolchain components, but not clearly stated

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE

or

- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

or whatever you think is better.

Prompted by a comment on the bug...

"needs-investigation" might sound like IN_PROGRESS or someone is working
on the bug, rather than signalling they need help from someone else.

Maybe just "help-wanted" (or "help-needed", whatever) as was suggested on the bug?

(... though this arguably might be interpreted to mean the same thing as "NeedsPatch").

[...]

thanks,
sam

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

From Jonas Stein@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 18 21:00:01 2025

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE
or
- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

or whatever you think is better.

With that KEYWORD we can set-up a saved search and 'experienced' devs can help to
diagnose the issue.

This KEYWORD is supposed to be set manually and not supposed to be set automatically
when there is a missing "error: " string. And obviously it can be used by everyone that
needs help.

Before send this to the mailing list, I talked about that with sam (since he is one of those
who does this activity) and agreed.

What do you think?

In general I think it is a good idea. The difficulty is to find a good
tag that is not misunderstood.

It should not be mixed with
"there are error messages and a user forgot to attach the log"

I am also undecided how useful this would be if a bot creates now tons
of "NEED_INVESTIGATION" bugs if we have no bots fixing these. :-)

A NEED_INVESTIGATION bug will take 100 times of the ressources compared
to a usual bug.

--
Best,
Jonas

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From Duncan@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 19 18:20:01 2025

Sam James posted on Sat, 18 Jan 2025 18:02:58 +0000 as excerpted:

Agostino Sarubbo <[email protected]> writes:

Good morning everyone,

during tinderbox activity I realized that sometimes there are bugs with
unknown causes at the time of filing.

Examples are:

- no "error: " string

- mysterious test failures

- hidden bugs on build.log but present on config.log and/or additional
files

- bugs that may be related to new toolchain components, but not clearly
stated

For that reason I would like to propose a new bugzilla KEYWORD, like:

- NEEDS-TRIAGE

or

- NEEDS-INVESTIGATION

or whatever you think is better.

Prompted by a comment on the bug...

"needs-investigation" might sound like IN_PROGRESS or someone is working
on the bug, rather than signalling they need help from someone else.

Maybe simply and most literally/clearly:

no-clear-error

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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[gentoo-dev] A new bugzilla keyword for bug investigation

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