On Thu, 2021-11-11 at 09:55 -0800, Patrick McLean wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle
these
days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

Are you going to help maintain the python interpreter? And fix tests for
old python targets?

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On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

c. ASAP: stabilize Python 3.9 interpreter + start working towards
unmasking python3_9 flag on stable

d. 2022-06-01: switch the default to py3.10

In other news, there's a good chance that PyPy3 will catch up to 3.9
before we remove 3.8.

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El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <[email protected]> escribió:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely
personal preference?



<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="
gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100<br>
Michał Górny &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I&#39;d like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to<br>
&gt; the implementation timeline [1].<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Unless I&#39;m mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these<br>
&gt; days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle<br> &gt; in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.<br> &gt; <br>
&gt; Hence my proposal would be to:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; a. ASAP: send &quot;please port your packages to py3.9&quot; mail<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target<br>

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if<br> possible.<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely personal preference?</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div></div>

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On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:55:48 -0800
Patrick McLean <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

To clarify, I am just asking for it to be pushed back to the start of
2023, not June 2023. 2023-01-01 would be fine.

c. ASAP: stabilize Python 3.9 interpreter + start working towards
unmasking python3_9 flag on stable

d. 2022-06-01: switch the default to py3.10

In other news, there's a good chance that PyPy3 will catch up to 3.9
before we remove 3.8.

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On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 19:01:14 +0100
David Seifert <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, 2021-11-11 at 09:55 -0800, Patrick McLean wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle
these
days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if possible.

Are you going to help maintain the python interpreter? And fix tests for
old python targets?

If that is what is required.
I am not asking to keep around 3.8 python targets for upstream that
drop support, only keep it around for a bit longer for the upstreams
that continue to support it. Upstream python isn't dropping support for
3.8 until 2024.

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El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 1:40 p. m., Patrick McLean <[email protected]> escribió:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500
"Wolfgang E. Sanyer" <[email protected]> wrote:

El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <

[email protected]>

escribió:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle

these

days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if possible.

Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely personal preference?

Professional preference?

Sounds like a good reason to me ☺️

This wasn't clear from your initial message though.

My employer (which employs several Gentoo

developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more
time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.

<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 1:40 p. m., Patrick McLean &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="
gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500<br>
&quot;Wolfgang E. Sanyer&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

&gt; El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; escribió:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100<br>
&gt; &gt; Michał Górny &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:  <br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I&#39;d like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the implementation timeline [1].<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Unless I&#39;m mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; days.  I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hence my proposal would be to:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; a. ASAP: send &quot;please port your packages to py3.9&quot; mail<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target  <br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if<br>
&gt; &gt; possible.<br>
&gt; &gt;  <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely<br> &gt; personal preference?<br>
&gt; <br>
Professional preference? </blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Sounds like a good reason to me ☺️</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This wasn&#39;t clear from your initial message though.</div><div dir="auto">
<br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">My employer (which employs several Gentoo<br>
developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more<br>
time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.<br>

</blockquote></div></div></div>

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On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500
"Wolfgang E. Sanyer" <[email protected]> wrote:

El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <[email protected]> escribió:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if possible.

Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely personal preference?

Professional preference? My employer (which employs several Gentoo
developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more
time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11 Nov 2021, at 18:40, Patrick McLean <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:58:24 -0500
"Wolfgang E. Sanyer" <[email protected]> wrote:

El jue, 11 de nov. de 2021 12:56 p. m., Patrick McLean <[email protected]> >> escribió:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these >>>> days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

Is there a particular reason you wish to push it back, or is it purely
personal preference?

Professional preference? My employer (which employs several Gentoo developers, and funds a large amount of Gentoo work) needs a bit more
time to migrate all the internal stuff to 3.10.

I think this is fair but if you do need something for work, please say that
so we don't need to guess / think it might be for your personal capacity.

I also think it's probably worthwhile to offer upfront help if needed if you can.

That said, I agree!

I think we need to push it back a little bit to ease upgrades (see
the recent thread) but also to help downstreams like Flatcar OS
which are still migrating away from Python 3.8.

I don't mind chipping in to help.

[There is a separate issue with stabilising the Python 3.10
interpreter. I'd like this done as soon as it's ready (and it works
fine here), but there's a problem with circular dependencies
and python-any-r1 dragging it in on upgrades and causing issues with libxcrypt.]

Best,
sam

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[Resending due to mail client nonsense...]

On 11 Nov 2021, at 18:44, Patrick McLean <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:55:48 -0800
Patrick McLean <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100
Michał Górny <[email protected]> wrote:

I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to
the implementation timeline [1].

Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a yearly release cycle these
days. I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle
in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.

Hence my proposal would be to:

a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail

b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target

Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if
possible.

To clarify, I am just asking for it to be pushed back to the start of
2023, not June 2023. 2023-01-01 would be fine.

I think this is fair but if you do need something for work, please say that
so we don't need to guess / think it might be for your personal capacity.

I also think it's probably worthwhile to offer upfront help if needed if you can, especially if it is for that purpose.

That said, I agree!

I think we need to push it back a little bit to ease upgrades (see
the recent thread) but also to help downstreams like Flatcar OS
which are still migrating away from Python 3.8.

I don't mind chipping in to help.

[There is a separate issue with stabilising the Python 3.10
interpreter. I'd like this done as soon as it's ready (and it works
fine here), but there's a problem with circular dependencies
and python-any-r1 dragging it in on upgrades and causing issues with libxcrypt.]

Best,
sam

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div>[Resending due to mail client nonsense...]</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 11 Nov 2021, at 18:44, Patrick McLean &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" class="">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><span style="
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:55:48 -0800</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -
webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Patrick McLean &lt;</span><a href="mailto:[email protected]" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
[email protected]</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">&gt; wrote:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><
blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:05:45 +0100<br class="">Michał Górny &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" class="">mgorny@
gentoo.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">I'd like to add some dates regarding 3.8 removal and 3.10 switch to<br class="">the implementation timeline [1].<br class=""><br class="">Unless I'm mistaken, CPython is following a
yearly release cycle these<br class="">days. &nbsp;I think it would make sense to also aim for a yearly cycle<br class="">in Gentoo, i.e. roughly switch to the next minor version every year.<br class=""><br class="">Hence my proposal would be to:<br
class=""><br class="">a. ASAP: send "please port your packages to py3.9" mail<br class=""><br class="">b. 2022-06-01: remove py3.8 target &nbsp;<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Could we please push this back, I would prefer some time in 2023 if<br
class="">possible.<br class=""></blockquote><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">To clarify, I am just asking for it to be pushed back to the start of</span><br style="
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">2023, not June 2023. 2023-01-01 would be fine.</span><br
class=""></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think this is fair but if you do need something for work, please say that<br class="">so we don't need to guess / think it might be for your personal capacity.<br class="">
<br class="">I also think it's probably worthwhile to offer upfront help if needed if you<br class="">can, especially if it is for that purpose.<br class=""><br class="">That said, I agree!<br class=""><br class="">I think we need to push it back a
little bit to ease upgrades (see<br class="">the recent thread) but also to help downstreams like Flatcar OS<br class="">which are still migrating away from Python 3.8.<br class=""><br class="">I don't mind chipping in to help.<br class=""><br class="">[
There is a separate issue with stabilising the Python 3.10<br class="">interpreter. I'd like this done as soon as it's ready (and it works<br class="">fine here), but there's a problem with circular dependencies<br class="">and python-any-r1 dragging it
in on upgrades and causing issues with libxcrypt.]<br class=""><br class="">Best,<br class="">sam</div></body></html>
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