• [gentoo-user] Recommended CPU and cooling system

    From whiteman808@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 02:40:02 2025
    Hello,

    I'm saving money for building PC. I'm going to do a lot of compiling.
    I'll use this PC as binary package server for multiple machines in my home network.
    I'll also host many virtual machines for various purposes on this PC.

    Target budget for only PC (not peripherals, additional devices) is 5000 EUR.

    Do you think AMD Ryzen Threadripper Pro 5965WX is a good choice for
    doing lots of compiling stuff on Gentoo?

    Do you recommend to use all in one cooling or invest into custom
    water cooling system? Is it true that heat cooling isn't a good idea in
    my case?

    whiteman808

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alexandru N. Barloiu@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 03:00:01 2025
    On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 02:38 +0200, whiteman808 wrote:
    Hello,

    I'm saving money for building PC. I'm going to do a lot of compiling.
    I'll use this PC as binary package server for multiple machines in my
    home network.
    I'll also host many virtual machines for various purposes on this PC.

    Target budget for only PC (not peripherals, additional devices) is
    5000 EUR.

    Do you think AMD Ryzen Threadripper Pro 5965WX is a good choice for
    doing lots of compiling stuff on Gentoo?

    Do you recommend to use all in one cooling or invest into custom
    water cooling system? Is it true that heat cooling isn't a good idea
    in
    my case?

    whiteman808


    I would like to make 2 points.

    First about cooling. Don't believe the hype. They are both the same
    thing. Both cooling solutions are a mixture of a liquid and air. Only difference is the pump and the amount of liquid. But even water
    solutions use a fan to cool down the liquid, and even normal coolers
    have pipes with liquid in them that do exactly the same thing.
    Personally I am partial to Noctua NH-D15. Its a monstrous cooler. And
    its safe from a liquid perspective. That thing can cool anything. The
    downside of it is that it doesn't fit in most cases. its 175 mm high.

    Second point. Number of cores is fine. Prolly dont need that many. What
    will be a problem will be the memory. You need around 1GB per thread of
    memory for normal C, and about 4GB of ram per thread for C++ stuff. So
    for 48 threads multiplied by 4 = 192 GB of ram. For something like
    webkit-gtk or chromium or spiderweb or rust or any other number of
    packages. GCC too. Especially if you put LTO on as well.

    I would invest in a CPU with less cores/threads (maybe 9950x3d = 36
    threads) in favor of maxing RAM. In which case that is about 96GB. With
    a 870x chipset board. Nice balance. And have to keep in mind that your
    CPU alone is half the money you want to invest. But you will need a
    bunch of RAM which is very expensive. A mobo. A cooler. A power supply.
    Its a lot to start with a cpu that is already half your budget. Go
    lower imho. Good luck and enjoy your machine.

    axl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alexandru N. Barloiu@21:1/5 to Dale on Thu Jul 24 06:10:01 2025
    On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 22:42 -0500, Dale wrote:
    Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:



    btw. dont be surprised if AMD stuff doesn't work as well as Intel
    stuff.

    I am not being a hater. Just being a realist. I was an Intel fan boy.
    Over time started to hate Intel. Made my first AMD system... and I have
    to say... not exactly loving it.

    Some simple examples. Until very recently, kernel 6.16... which is now
    in RC7 stage, no cpu sensor. Kind of a problem. Intel cpus always had
    coretemp. Not saying they are not coming up, one by one. But you spend
    like 5000 or however much each of us spends... you expect to at least
    get a cpu temperature sensor that works.

    Other example. Intel platform. Qemu. No problem. AMD. Weird ACPI table.
    which some setups, if you dont use modern enough edk2 firmware, takes
    45 seconds for the damn VM to start.

    Other example. No XMP memory profiles. Will be a pain to actually OC
    memory. On intel platforms you just select the xmp profile and you are
    done. Not on AMD.

    And finally another example. Not sure what the threadripper has. But my
    9950x3d has 8 SMT high performance cores. and 8 SMT power saving cores.
    but the kernel has no idea which is which. if you set your system on powersaving or balanced or high performance... that means nothing to
    the system. to be clear. 0->7 are high performance. 7->15 powersaving.
    and 16->23 high performance siblings (smt - amd version of
    hyperthreading), and 24->31 powersaving siblings. but again. the OS is completely unaware of this.

    just some examples. am sure the amd folks will catch up with the
    software. but just to be clear. lots of stuff dont work out of the box.
    and have to dig really deep for each individual little thing.

    and some things just straight out dont work. and nobody tells you ahead
    of the purchase that they dont work. like for instance. my asus 870X
    creative mobo came very high recommended. but nobody told me you can't
    install windows 10 on it. and nobody told me that wifi/bluetooth
    doesn't work in linux. it will at some point. but it doesn't now.

    sorry for the rant. just things i found out when i got my first AMD
    system.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alexandru N. Barloiu@21:1/5 to Dale on Thu Jul 24 08:10:01 2025
    On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 00:10 -0500, Dale wrote:
    Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:
    On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 22:42 -0500, Dale wrote:
    Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:


    btw. dont be surprised if AMD stuff doesn't work as well as Intel
    stuff.

    I am not being a hater. Just being a realist. I was an Intel fan
    boy.
    Over time started to hate Intel. Made my first AMD system... and I
    have
    to say... not exactly loving it.

    Some simple examples. Until very recently, kernel 6.16... which is
    now
    in RC7 stage, no cpu sensor. Kind of a problem. Intel cpus always
    had
    coretemp. Not saying they are not coming up, one by one. But you
    spend
    like 5000 or however much each of us spends... you expect to at
    least
    get a cpu temperature sensor that works.

    Other example. Intel platform. Qemu. No problem. AMD. Weird ACPI
    table.
    which some setups, if you dont use modern enough edk2 firmware,
    takes
    45 seconds for the damn VM to start.

    Other example. No XMP memory profiles. Will be a pain to actually
    OC
    memory. On intel platforms you just select the xmp profile and you
    are
    done. Not on AMD.

    And finally another example. Not sure what the threadripper has.
    But my
    9950x3d has 8 SMT high performance cores. and 8 SMT power saving
    cores.
    but the kernel has no idea which is which. if you set your system
    on
    powersaving or balanced or high performance... that means nothing
    to
    the system. to be clear. 0->7 are high performance. 7->15
    powersaving.
    and 16->23 high performance siblings (smt - amd version of
    hyperthreading), and 24->31 powersaving siblings. but again. the OS
    is
    completely unaware of this.

    just some examples. am sure the amd folks will catch up with the
    software. but just to be clear. lots of stuff dont work out of the
    box.
    and have to dig really deep for each individual little thing.

    and some things just straight out dont work. and nobody tells you
    ahead
    of the purchase that they dont work. like for instance. my asus
    870X
    creative mobo came very high recommended. but nobody told me you
    can't
    install windows 10 on it. and nobody told me that wifi/bluetooth
    doesn't work in linux. it will at some point. but it doesn't now.

    sorry for the rant. just things i found out when i got my first AMD
    system.




    That's the reason why when I build, I don't build with the latest and greatest CPU, video card and other hardware.  New stuff has always
    had
    lagging support in Linux.  When something new comes out, Microsoft is
    in
    on the details early, likely because they pay a huge sum of money for
    the info.  So, when some new piece of hardware comes out, they get it first.  In Linux, I've read that some things have to be reverse
    engineered which is time consuming.  Think about document scanners
    and
    printers.  Some scanners and printers are still not supported and a
    lot
    only have limited support.  Some of those have been out for years. 

    I'm not to surprised that you have ran into this.  Since I built a
    rig
    that technology wise was already a year or two old, everything worked
    out of the box for me.  CPU temps and all.  Mine seems to recognize
    my
    cores properly, as best I can tell anyway.  Gkrellm isn't complaining
    and neither is htop. 

    The one thing that freaked me out, CPU temps.  They have a new and
    improved sensor that reads from the silicone wafer itself, deep
    inside
    it seems.  It responds faster and is likely more accurate but it is
    much
    higher temps than the old temp that was of the die, right under where
    the CPU cooler sits it seems.  When I first saw 190F temps, I kinda
    freaked out a bit.  I thought I was trying to cook a egg with my
    CPU.  I
    was checking that the fans were running and all that.  I think it was
    Rich that posted a explanation.  As I said, the temp is likely more
    accurate but still, I was not expecting that. 

    When I build a new rig several years from now, I might build a AM5
    that
    is either available now or will be shortly.  Even my first rig was
    built
    with things that had been released for close to a year.  It was still
    plenty fast for the time tho.  I even named it Smoker.  My next rig
    was
    named Fireball.  I couldn't think of a good name for this rig that
    would
    line up with those two names so I went with Gentoo-1.  I guess next
    rig
    will be Gentoo-2.  ;-)

    It is sometimes hard to tell if everything is supported.  Linux is a
    great community but someone has to be the first to buy something and
    see
    if things work.  Once bought, you kinda stuck with it.  It takes a
    while.  Then you have to figure out which forum or other website
    where a
    person is describing what works and what doesn't.  Then how dated
    that
    info is.  I find that usually after a year, it is likely supported as
    far as CPU, mobo and such.  Other stuff like printers may take
    longer. 

    It is a problem tho.  It's almost like a leap of faith when buying
    newly
    released hardware.  Rant on.  This may help the OP too.  It may be a
    good idea to mention that some things might not be well supported
    yet. 

    Dale

    :-)  :-) 



    to be fair... the system i love most is a tired old x58 chipset. intel
    950 cpu. 32GB of slow ass ram (think 1600). but has an intel 750 nvme.
    and a modern nvidia 980. honestly... its just fine for most things
    (HD). can't do 4k. i mean it can, but not well. but it does HD.

    if you push enough ram on your system, and a good ssd, rest dont really
    matter.

    further more. its hard to tell. just saying. but its hard to tell. if
    you have like intel 750 or 905 optane storage (a good ssd, these 2 are legendary). if you have that. and if you have ram to the max that your
    platform can support. 32GB. 64. 128. whatever you can. and you have a
    decent gpu. 980 still decent today. u cant actually tell that intel 950
    cpu, one of the first is bad. can't tell nvidia 980 is bad. can't tell
    1600 ram is bad.

    and frankly, that machine is enough as a distcc server. funny thing
    about distcc. :) it has a top bandwidth limit. somewhere between 8 and
    16 threads you fill the entire gigabyte bandwidth.

    I will say this. I had a 9980xe before with 128GB of ram. its a
    monster. its also old. 2018 if i am not mistaken. 18 cores and 36
    threads. my new 9950x3d only has 16 cores and 32 threads and only 96GB
    of ram. so its not that much of an upgrade. old boosted speed was 4GHZ
    (on 9980xe). on 9950x3d is 5.76. i get better single core performance.
    1.76 more. that's about all i get. in 7 years.

    I will also say this. I kept the intel 750 and intel 905p optane. Both
    are god tier storage. But the optate is got tier squared. If you find
    any of these bad boys... go do:

    # smartctl -a /dev/nvme0 | grep "Available Spare Threshold"

    and if that is below 100 buy them. i mean for the optane.

    there's the scoop.

    both intel 750 and 900(5) are way way way way faster than any modern
    nvme drives. modern nvme drives are optimized for single thread
    performance. u got one thread, single file, great. 7000 mbps. u dont
    need 7000 coz nothing reads anything that fast. you cant feed it into
    anything. but whatever. most things... when you increase the number of
    threads, and maybe its not one single big file, but multiple small
    files, and maybe you want to read and write at the same time....

    i mean you are buying a 48 thread machine. right?

    well. most modern nvmes can't handle stuff after 8. they were never
    designed to do so.

    intel 750 was. it was created from the start with the idea in mind that
    the controller had to be absolutely able to do hundreds of threads at
    the same time.

    problem with intel 750... its a perishable drive. it has amazing
    performance. it reads and writes with 2200/1600. regardless of threads
    or files or anything else. it simply doesn't care. its performance per
    core is equal to the performance of however many cores you put into it.

    but then there's the 900. and the 905. optane. they kept the
    controller, the one that doesn't care about how many threads you are
    doing, and they changed the storage. and they invented this thing.
    xpoint storage. in terms of ssd/nvme storage... that stuff doesn't die.
    while normal drives count their max life in terabytes. tens. or
    hundreds. or thousands on the high end. OPTANE counts its max life in petabytes.

    believe me. if you find any of these drives, and they are not spent,
    get them. your computer becomes something else when you have one of
    these bad boys. they go directly into pciexpress. 4 lanes. but my god
    they dont resemble anything that is out there. and a system with one of
    them is so different from a system that doesn't. especially when you
    push. the controller intel built into those things... what parallelism?
    breaks the space time continuum.


    changed ram. changed cpu. changed mobo. changed gpu. changed power
    supply. but kept the 905p. i got a 9100 pro from samsung. guess that's
    the new standard ssd. my optane still kicks it ass in random seek
    read/write with as many threads as the cpu has.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 10:23:13 2025
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 01:53:22 British Summer Time Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:
    On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 02:38 +0200, whiteman808 wrote:
    Hello,

    I'm saving money for building PC. I'm going to do a lot of compiling.
    I'll use this PC as binary package server for multiple machines in my
    home network.
    I'll also host many virtual machines for various purposes on this PC.

    Target budget for only PC (not peripherals, additional devices) is
    5000 EUR.

    Do you think AMD Ryzen Threadripper Pro 5965WX is a good choice for
    doing lots of compiling stuff on Gentoo?

    Do you recommend to use all in one cooling or invest into custom
    water cooling system? Is it true that heat cooling isn't a good idea
    in
    my case?

    whiteman808

    I would like to make 2 points.

    First about cooling. Don't believe the hype. They are both the same
    thing. Both cooling solutions are a mixture of a liquid and air. Only difference is the pump and the amount of liquid. But even water
    solutions use a fan to cool down the liquid, and even normal coolers
    have pipes with liquid in them that do exactly the same thing.
    Personally I am partial to Noctua NH-D15. Its a monstrous cooler. And
    its safe from a liquid perspective. That thing can cool anything. The downside of it is that it doesn't fit in most cases. its 175 mm high.

    The pros & cons between air and water cooling are well covered and commented
    on all over the interwebs. There also a lot of tests and measurements to back claims of one Vs the other; e.g.:

    https://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

    I broadly agree with Axl's comment on cooling. For normal everyday desktop workloads an AIO water cooler will not provide any significant benefit
    compared to a similarly priced air cooler, other than lower noise levels at maximum performance. However, the topic is rather nuanced and there are notable differences between cooling components and CPU/GPU power outputs.

    First let's differentiate between AIO and custom water cooling systems. Although AIOs and air coolers are comparable, with AIOs having an edge both in higher temperature dissipation and lower noise at maximum power output, an expensive custom water cooling system will perform better than any air cooling system today, in terms of temperature differentials at extreme performance levels. A custom water cooling system can also water-cool your GPU, which you may need if you're an avid gamer, engage in crypto-mining, or undertake heavy media transcoding.

    If you overclock, or you tune your AMD's PBO to maximise CPU power usability,
    a water cooler will deliver better performance during a continuous maximum CPU power draw. When you are cranking up all cores on protracted monster emerges, like chromium/qtwebengine, then liquid cooling will have a measurable edge.

    On the other hand, a water cooling system has the major disbenefit of a
    limited life span. AIOs come with a 3, 5, or 6 years warranty for a good reason. The components they use have a higher probability of failing soon after the warranty expires! They may fail gradually, e.g. by their puny water pump becoming noisier, or they may fail suddenly and without warning. They could fail and spring a leak all over your expensive MoBo, PCIe ports, M.2 SSD and graphics card. An air cooler may also fail, but without collateral damage the cost of just replacing a cooling fan and carrying on where you left will
    be much much much lower.


    Second point. Number of cores is fine. Prolly dont need that many. What
    will be a problem will be the memory. You need around 1GB per thread of memory for normal C, and about 4GB of ram per thread for C++ stuff. So
    for 48 threads multiplied by 4 = 192 GB of ram. For something like
    webkit-gtk or chromium or spiderweb or rust or any other number of
    packages. GCC too. Especially if you put LTO on as well.

    I would invest in a CPU with less cores/threads (maybe 9950x3d = 36
    threads) in favor of maxing RAM. In which case that is about 96GB. With
    a 870x chipset board. Nice balance. And have to keep in mind that your
    CPU alone is half the money you want to invest. But you will need a
    bunch of RAM which is very expensive. A mobo. A cooler. A power supply.
    Its a lot to start with a cpu that is already half your budget. Go
    lower imho. Good luck and enjoy your machine.

    axl

    I tend to go by the old muscle car saying, "... there's no substitute for
    cubic inches!" On your PC the cubic inches translate to cores x frequency. More cores and higher frequency = faster emerge. However, as Axl warns the bottleneck becomes the amount of RAM needed to support the parallelism of your CPU cores.

    So what to do? I tend to opt for the higher amount of cores commensurate with a proportionate increase in price, which means I won't buy the latest and greatest advertised CPU. I also wait until the price drops during sales. Sometimes, later MoBo models increase the amount of RAM they can power so checking what the MoBo can feed may help overcoming the RAM limitation. If you're building a system to keep in the long term I suggest you buy as many cores as you can afford with enough RAM for now, with plans to increase it later on when RAM prices tend to fall.
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEXqhvaVh2ERicA8Ceseqq9sKVZxkFAmiB+4EACgkQseqq9sKV ZxlQMw/+Olvq70xykxhq9fL6NZY8IAUaTwjDz/ZOYdTt/5uVbQN+VQT2+kE6+33m 9qlWH7YlqxD6Bz6CwMaMWr3l9KF1mBtC7cJx3wlNuMXjkTyf8S7vkNhkUvQXkV8p hAKDmgZAvf39nXzBIx/Hci8t5A0qGTv7q3dNdNfSYrEChIXFMh8geb5jHx1z1Jxz rs+SRFVDyOvBQu7R0Zo+Qo1gHu3yuMuhbCVyU6sp+dDcxaN7NPjOABT+bj0y9ctm /0raKBvE5GoCEoVsox8TLMQdISRMJ4gRfRQZf0a3ym6OLZDkrxddYK/839zsPq6U nRzeBfEqFoR7RiYaEvIq6KvXlsBMdJedzXv8cQ3wglC129dMsflbbZl5F50CfJs1 BlcDJc1PlIvlxslt96kGDF/hlkx6CnqE70smt4ir6pEbEv6RSHdFHAuUJmJ6QwAD DFkmfHS0MfdXsSsxWZ9RKgy5D9v9nQopAaLObxyqvAN5d3G/8QnTxfjSTWDqYIoO Tr7snJAi8UtpODWNkER0bAyTiVhjLX5Rum1tug9Y1GBr+llDOSaQV/sM0XSQTzt4 nmlSAZ2FV/CJRgFEwDGsQhJtK4T9KdMJcSSS7hmwxGRq+5Ne4zOTkoQw6ybKyUbl DSCSbPW19ImHCr7x2npJEHeWe0wj5oM6o6la/yCtHgAZ0L40GhM=
    =zEqm
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 11:48:05 2025
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 04:59:22 British Summer Time Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:
    On Wed, 2025-07-23 at 22:42 -0500, Dale wrote:
    Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:
    btw. dont be surprised if AMD stuff doesn't work as well as Intel
    stuff.

    I am not being a hater. Just being a realist. I was an Intel fan boy.
    Over time started to hate Intel. Made my first AMD system... and I have
    to say... not exactly loving it.

    Some simple examples. Until very recently, kernel 6.16... which is now
    in RC7 stage, no cpu sensor. Kind of a problem. Intel cpus always had coretemp. Not saying they are not coming up, one by one. But you spend
    like 5000 or however much each of us spends... you expect to at least
    get a cpu temperature sensor that works.

    Perhaps because I wait a year or at least a few months after a new CPU generation comes out I have not experienced the same problem with AMD CPUs. Instead, I have experienced the same problem with missing sensors many years ago when I bought the 1st gen i7 CPU.

    Meanwhile, the way Intel threw its users under the bus refusing to provide microcode for older CPUs when the CPU vulnerabilities were revealed and now news on Intel 13/14th Gen CPU degradation problems, convinced me to
    permanently turn my back on Intel. ;-)


    Other example. Intel platform. Qemu. No problem. AMD. Weird ACPI table.
    which some setups, if you dont use modern enough edk2 firmware, takes
    45 seconds for the damn VM to start.

    I must admit I have not come across this problem, perhaps because I do use edk2.


    Other example. No XMP memory profiles. Will be a pain to actually OC
    memory. On intel platforms you just select the xmp profile and you are
    done. Not on AMD.

    The Intel XMP (Extreme Memory Profile) and/or AMD's D.O.C.P. (Direct Over
    Clock Profile) are available on my MoBos. Depending on the MoBo capabilities you can tweak the memory clock manually if you really want to, or just switch on DOCP and it will achieve its overclocked performance level. Is DOCP
    missing on your MoBo? It may be worth checking if the latest EFI firmware is needed to make it available.


    And finally another example. Not sure what the threadripper has. But my 9950x3d has 8 SMT high performance cores. and 8 SMT power saving cores.
    but the kernel has no idea which is which. if you set your system on powersaving or balanced or high performance... that means nothing to
    the system. to be clear. 0->7 are high performance. 7->15 powersaving.
    and 16->23 high performance siblings (smt - amd version of
    hyperthreading), and 24->31 powersaving siblings. but again. the OS is completely unaware of this.

    I read there is a new AMD specific V-cache driver made available in the 6.13 kernel. Perhaps this will allow switching processes to the chiplet with the
    3D cache? I wonder how much faster this will make compiling code ... O_O

    Please post how long it takes you to emerge qtwebengine, rust, libreoffice.


    just some examples. am sure the amd folks will catch up with the
    software. but just to be clear. lots of stuff dont work out of the box.
    and have to dig really deep for each individual little thing.

    and some things just straight out dont work. and nobody tells you ahead
    of the purchase that they dont work. like for instance. my asus 870X
    creative mobo came very high recommended. but nobody told me you can't install windows 10 on it. and nobody told me that wifi/bluetooth
    doesn't work in linux. it will at some point. but it doesn't now.

    sorry for the rant. just things i found out when i got my first AMD
    system.

    In my experience, new hardware takes a bit longer to bed in kernel-wise on Linux than on MSWindows. This is why I wait for a while before I jump in with my purchases. However, sometimes the jump in technology is so big and
    enticing it is hard to wait when your old system has been dragging its heels for years.
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEXqhvaVh2ERicA8Ceseqq9sKVZxkFAmiCD2UACgkQseqq9sKV Zxml5xAAsaLyTSPtynth2Etpj8sojxSpUE06lfmpx7OkBF9ZwaHS5PYtQWk9+lYf hPyp5CowdsFkcqloasfPYK2pNKp8TuzDdWpX9KbE+2Py3wTPC0f2ekOS2pYEmroI QNUz6/lTplfMbNCm9c9j90bxyjFCwTAUCPlFbQcNjzw/uoMy4Sd71q1ibymZqhNF 53Pe5bimoijL5GI6iO2ibBMnBEEknBycPnDaWlryXZ7mtNCgD3EBBrtG1SAIHeK/ opeSOOjLg1xb6SOG3kplBIfvXiWMMsi6huE/6XFu0tHU/r0bgRDFBqEmcBAmNhqw KU7ZDrg4sJg1EOPlHarlZSLPVASXAdLWb/dhDcESu/sPXeLnb5KQgGMh+pA3U4JO bYJM70fokziW6arBjJsHZfNnLo0Y0/OrP1Kqs7JkbqD+LKgzfHOFLpAv/IsQUco2 F9UWBGnRDxq+Ox+YcoTzZHom1wp1De1ocg8ynmq0PuPtuNUAMu2MZrADHixS80I2 ngPLnjViTNEPp9jZQkf5T8beAh1XLlC0Hk0ut7WiefW3hi9PsIqAUHGRGVD/6077 R5oN5rQadOyYPujE+XMsgKVyORsxd9Oe6hqZCwsH3fq0nL3yg3cvgYfdlUqGrr1J g3JLHzzTsMCqSKhvS6OFX0fqhl9S+k4/RA29gjNMarmv0YCKvLk=
    =B1+r
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alexandru N. Barloiu@21:1/5 to Michael on Thu Jul 24 13:30:01 2025
    On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 11:48 +0100, Michael wrote:
    Please post how long it takes you to emerge qtwebengine, rust,
    libreoffice.

    sorry, i dont use any of that. best i can do is:




    [root@trandafira:~]# genlop -t sys-devel/gcc
    * sys-devel/gcc

    Fri Jun 6 00:24:16 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 10 minutes and 50 seconds.

    Fri Jun 6 00:57:02 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.0
    merge time: 15 minutes and 24 seconds.




    which is odd. and wrong. i can brag about it. but the truth is, it
    should be around 20 minutes.


    Fri Jun 6 03:08:48 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.0
    merge time: 22 minutes and 41 seconds.

    Sat Jun 7 12:08:11 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 21 minutes and 43 seconds.

    Sat Jun 7 21:46:39 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.0
    merge time: 22 minutes and 24 seconds.

    Sat Jun 7 22:55:58 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 21 minutes and 25 seconds.

    Wed Jul 9 19:01:53 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.1_p20250705-r1
    merge time: 22 minutes and 36 seconds.


    with LTO on. should say. ignore the 10/15 minutes one. prolly a bug.
    but gcc with lto never lies because its not about distcc. its about
    your own system. those are the times. no BS times.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 14:05:22 2025
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 13:56:05 British Summer Time Javier Martinez wrote:
    To be more realistics you have to compite in equal conditions, compiling
    in ram for example. Maybe your harddisk is faster that his one.

    My OS is on an M.2 SSD and I also use a RAM tmpfs on this PC, but the way packages keep growing larger and larger I wonder how long before I need more RAM. ;-)


    8 dd if=/dev/urandom to ram would be fine IMO


    However, "... building packages in tmpfs is unlikely to provide any benefit on a modern system."

    https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Portage_TMPDIR_on_tmpfs


    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEXqhvaVh2ERicA8Ceseqq9sKVZxkFAmiCL5IACgkQseqq9sKV ZxmXdRAAlFRYe1wStf/VUewPP6J5i6ZCCzS9EwRbmK16PSOeGHwjona7yPLGiTOL BMJIDPnw6mG/Kzu2pQ6LSVqqd/u4DswFLXkgYi6bI3Bsc6iAjJbb1oSRW8vJEdOi 3nhaxutNZxx/HqvlWqOYzhkIaNhmmoj5rMIXQak5PRK0DV/fl9qxCrBx0V3v7Zpe 9OClU0saIrz54H5J+oMfxZ+8ylob8jeV9Fb+ea/cfcrTiAVOb1upHwM1Ffqz1jdP gJ0mHAwNxRwwTWWkKTwwI5jJj6XwhgYywRS6VZBx/MJ6yfU0kbBoTg6ZujPPP0+A 8GwNpj3JQKahUrEhQrPvOyyPz2m8KT8TewJPOVlHgN1TSw4nawbYlmAVUQtsdguh zAFk6HwAqcrYXFjZe2fitezX0zgw26PW3018bEaDRyiFv7eW0hTpG7DUOoG+Bmpy Q1ZyZKYhsfRZv5PQYgFBjxeqXQKF3jBpF5f7y0gPSvKTpmtk0sx+DmmMpfOv6VgD yUJCTYyZzPvjngkpHN/aPI0HaSWtFBi4g7k5ukE4fPQtC9iiXSdRPAiFcPoGgJBu vrO5pjLVSa25ZRN2PcwQVE8HOhyyt7/vdSskvKIitx9wOclY/TsI/gpxCffurzSa vIiz8cwqUHdyxewfelAlQzbL1p9B0QYuwr728Ma7EngWQ8kz2F8=
    =h2By
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 13:50:31 2025
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 12:16:21 British Summer Time Alexandru N. Barloiu wrote:
    On Thu, 2025-07-24 at 11:48 +0100, Michael wrote:
    Please post how long it takes you to emerge qtwebengine, rust,
    libreoffice.

    sorry, i dont use any of that. best i can do is:




    [root@trandafira:~]# genlop -t sys-devel/gcc
    * sys-devel/gcc

    Fri Jun 6 00:24:16 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 10 minutes and 50 seconds.

    Fri Jun 6 00:57:02 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.0
    merge time: 15 minutes and 24 seconds.




    which is odd. and wrong. i can brag about it. but the truth is, it
    should be around 20 minutes.


    Fri Jun 6 03:08:48 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.0
    merge time: 22 minutes and 41 seconds.

    Sat Jun 7 12:08:11 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 21 minutes and 43 seconds.

    Sat Jun 7 21:46:39 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.0
    merge time: 22 minutes and 24 seconds.

    Sat Jun 7 22:55:58 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 21 minutes and 25 seconds.

    Wed Jul 9 19:01:53 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-15.1.1_p20250705-r1
    merge time: 22 minutes and 36 seconds.


    with LTO on. should say. ignore the 10/15 minutes one. prolly a bug.
    but gcc with lto never lies because its not about distcc. its about
    your own system. those are the times. no BS times.

    Thank you for this. I don't use distcc. On an AM4 MoBo with DDR4 I get 29% slower times if I enable LTO when emerging gcc, which is to be expected.

    Thu Jun 5 11:40:53 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 17 minutes and 22 seconds.

    Thu Jul 24 12:55:07 2025 >>> sys-devel/gcc-14.3.0
    merge time: 24 minutes and 14 seconds.

    Compared to your LTO times my PC is ~12% slower, which is surprising. I was expecting yours would show a ~25% improvement. I wonder what performance
    boost you'd get with the new AMD V-cache driver in the kernel and if this
    would be realisable by a compiler. o_O

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEXqhvaVh2ERicA8Ceseqq9sKVZxkFAmiCLBcACgkQseqq9sKV Zxl5xQ//ZKEAKYs8lz9typf/gGOX78cXYDIFT7kEMZcsT2cMXHYfcadClevzeRrW y//q+QFCLaJCIPFaIYCCi3DB9PYCb6RS+AEbNheogh8MXMlfa6vgp7ezNOitYRhq 645h7aXTTgHsoriWfDgRlSS9t3SASm31XVD1r3gotYPb+Esj7KbABtWfQkzHjsnL zsd6yV3YVGu3Ou7r82d+2lBixUSrvWKVt4irvhasZVJlhQ2AKiUQ+tfpxF9OYFZX TKPetmI/Y8GlYuzT1Q6ZIMNUGB/AS4AEnlBaJ9YYVmku5PQTvJta5AggdmCKEo6S G7Q0I6I1m4EcY/ttrX1CGDh6K+FSU1JE6MmIcgiIegzEENEk4JgeDz8x64kKak8D zMrxBhafTjztO4hvJJuweMEHKY/Lh7sqyAfn2iw/Llyxqec3BniJ/G0YiFXIxgWQ jggJyqw2+EewbuWUOxeLTzBjZ2dP2AUdyuHTE2GbSFZKYVSkzIn8D2SmdEL7TRjC gS8F/SyEm61Pdh46gAU1lVrKO1QAOiBpfnVnOBFv1Oyw9IrQVXAY56boB/oLS1pf oTZ0uLhs53g1YcmEYpHnHz4RzEeXfqXK2KnSu4Mcna/zPyWDSmZA35xFg1AXK8F+ OExMn1fWkLylcxeJgNzf8LTfPYMe+oQR3XRYfocnzPVIbRdvOL0=
    =V3CU
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 24 15:41:45 2025
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 15:36:57 British Summer Time Dale wrote:
    Javier Martinez wrote:
    El 24/7/25 a las 15:05, Michael escribió:
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 13:56:05 British Summer Time Javier

    Martinez wrote:
    To be more realistics you have to compite in equal conditions,
    compiling
    in ram for example. Maybe your harddisk is faster that his one.

    My OS is on an M.2 SSD and I also use a RAM tmpfs on this PC, but the
    way
    packages keep growing larger and larger I wonder how long before I
    need more
    RAM. ;-)

    8 dd if=/dev/urandom to ram would be fine IMO

    However, "... building packages in tmpfs is unlikely to provide any
    benefit on
    a modern system."

    https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Portage_TMPDIR_on_tmpfs

    It avoids to made your ultra fast SSD burn

    That's the biggest reason I have portage's work directory on tmpfs. If
    I start having to do it on a disk because of a lack of memory, I'll do
    it on spinning rust to save my m.2 stick.

    Dale

    :-) :-)

    P. S. What is LTO and should I enable something? I already need to
    reboot soon for a newly rebuilt kernel. May as well do both.

    Come on Dale, you know how to search the Gentoo wiki. ;-)

    It has some benefits, especially if you are building binaries to run on a resource constrained system, but it takes longer to build them and not all packages benefit from it. YMMV ...
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEXqhvaVh2ERicA8Ceseqq9sKVZxkFAmiCRikACgkQseqq9sKV Zxk1TRAAwU1ImIFEGF3AYyUXn2QUfJ5HGnNgD8lbxcydOq4t82b4zmZECX6J/QKh L238ieOHQ4t6K51+sw6exlhLymZqI6iWpUpUHyKpAYCJ4u9Ggyb5X93TqwQFfK/n erEos4ku2sh9QcVth/dR3B83LnRqjVlsnwmK2KLogU7VGd86WWl3GSKfxPEA+WKP NJONtSsbXeA/rNYLAJSPAH1DQxu02m1ImqWh+AJKXO8EExKb0/wALVzeSex0z+QD eynDsPmslerctNaYdNUSFKTO/laYVVit3uqfI6DTcV1/sjkCfgmwBopyzMU5mX1T Gi3cHUI4xw0Z+EPXJltCLRNxI39IhNE1Bp2e49xB5ZBx1cnk7xZpi+ZolJZYy+df OGX5lRBjSGZW93CSZ0++5Th5XNAyWdYBsiC+HgntRnCGgcK7srlZSfHpRKikXBDs ngXw18DFS58rXCII4QnuFJ9fv3aHGb7p8EGHieFHEy3lNLRSb9WgMQ7Ij/J2lZdw 8dEtRMng4pAFw22FO1ZAAf7hurTyhMPn/CTkj3EUldP72OBczxKm5HUF6JiD4/bl Rj5lPireUU2GAe1m5t70F8v0GRd2M3bxY7YocMDuqI15UT9pNjB032ALlSORokq3 hoEhybsKXBZef7DnkCnDOfOmGzCf47ThZRUwYj2nALx7NmsPpdg=
    =BS+I
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Humphrey@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 25 13:10:01 2025
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 15:41:45 British Summer Time Michael wrote:
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 15:36:57 British Summer Time Dale wrote:
    [...]
    P. S. What is LTO and should I enable something? I already need to
    reboot soon for a newly rebuilt kernel. May as well do both.

    Come on Dale, you know how to search the Gentoo wiki. ;-)

    I once saw jargon defined as a secret language to denote membership of an exclusive club.

    Please don't use it like that.

    --
    Regards,
    Peter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 25 12:33:10 2025
    On Friday, 25 July 2025 12:00:39 British Summer Time Peter Humphrey wrote:
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 15:41:45 British Summer Time Michael wrote:
    On Thursday, 24 July 2025 15:36:57 British Summer Time Dale wrote:
    [...]

    P. S. What is LTO and should I enable something? I already need to reboot soon for a newly rebuilt kernel. May as well do both.

    Come on Dale, you know how to search the Gentoo wiki. ;-)

    I once saw jargon defined as a secret language to denote membership of an exclusive club.

    Please don't use it like that.

    Of course, my apologies. LTO in this case stands for Link Time Optimisation, as opposed to Whole Time Optimisation. It refers to an inter-procedural optimisation performed by the compiler at link time. I understand this to
    mean linking different compilation units together into a single module, which /should/ make the final executable faster to execute. All this analysis and optimisation takes time making the compilation process longer, but the final executable swifter (hopefully). Some software benefits more than others, e.g. firefox.

    This is the article on the wiki:

    https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/LTO

    The section "Experiments" in this article presents a couple of real life comparisons:

    https://johnnysswlab.com/link-time-optimizations-new-way-to-do-compiler-optimizations/

    HTH.
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEXqhvaVh2ERicA8Ceseqq9sKVZxkFAmiDa3YACgkQseqq9sKV ZxmV8xAA1uxSGZ4ijOqYOcC/z/+ZrZi34OBIre7K2AsJPZD7e2PYNf1JGAoH6Yu5 YtVaZ4DZ5GtVijCkxxSui3hp+Aueiy3D4K6Rlvo9qQKlcI5BgqWb5EaOvj46xKQf X3izGxK0OqEMZKn7HXmJ4GtAQrq3R74oDt4butbl0dHbpJ7P0IeHwq8HHQeJKl6L 3Fuk37ZffnuJXYLPfo9ktkt+19ChC7LrwyCNH1BUiTrle85kMjTdtaKRuVE+8y/a n4E2MvNSmsTXXD5CP6mraQbck0n2d2bcxsu31IVViuyx6IpVMeEIpV8If2MdIRYC dlDUJqfqFqPeBZsc3X69V1G0T5Od14PO2IzoDucxZd4oWW+mpamU2eFFjDx/aT4P QUS8u02sK4zJwmn8chXoGRF4NiUQtIcmA9AcEO4Tr7vnHEpvATPuG83oX9NUegyj vBu9/TomRwAk6Jmc19cwTwfZcObi4N0IWighVk3hIMbOvmBtoSMgaFKeLM8euBdX n82bCfXT3nt7MUjJj4So4ih7tzqktSFryohJOMG3kWddF0NBQ+UoE2pjCZjaNn0U VxBaox/cTOWhLiBT1IUS3m7IZMB2hkxjV1O+mwzqV4BFvDldQKnGJ50EozNo7s8j uu0cddL59RjUHxNVEyAAZ2yArECJh8fNmI0CFIhUqSXJyoX8du8=
    =5jfE
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)