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On 6/5/25 11:32 AM, Mark Knecht wrote:

A book is one way to go, especially if someone trusted recommends
the title.

As for me - and this isn't bash scripting - but I've learned Python just using videos on YouTube coupled with asking AI Helpers {Chat GTP,
Gemini, Claude, Deepseek, Copilot} either questions I want answered
or, more importantly, providing it with some code I wrote and asking it
two basic questions:

1) What does this code do?

2) Are there any problems this code might cause or side effects I
should be aware of?

Those two questions plus a copy of my real data I want to work on
so that it doesn't make a mistake and delete or corrupt my real data
have allowed me to make a lot of progress without spending a
penny. I suspect this would work well for you if it suits your learning style.

I see plenty of videos on YouTube about bash scripting.

All of the AI helpers will answer 20-30 questions a day for free so
there's no cost involved, and you can ask each of them the same
questions to get multiple points of view on solving your problems.

Artificial non-intelligence is based on a sophisticated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs generator. It is a program
designed to produce pseudorandom output streams with a weight towards grammatically correct output.

It possesses no knowledge or reasoning and literally *cannot* possess
the attribute of being correct. It is very good at superficially looking correct. Whether or not it actually is correct is up to a roll of the dice.

Any knowledgeable AI user will tell you: AI *cannot* be safely used
unless you already know what you are doing and can review the results
before running it. AI proponents find AI useful to reduce the manual
labor involved in writing the script -- ***not*** for figuring out the
correct thing to do. This is an iterative process of rejecting answers
that look wrong and tweaking the prompt, getting the AI to try again and
again until it gets the right answer.

DO NOT USE AI AS A TEACHER. YOU WILL BREAK YOUR SYSTEM IRREPARABLY.

You will delete all your data by accident.

You will be the latest example of a foolish fool posting on Reddit in
tears, asking if there is any way to recover years worth of labor that
wasn't backed up properly.

You will learn nothing, or you will learn how to write incorrect and
buggy scripts because you aren't able to evaluate which answers are hallucinations.


--
Eli Schwartz

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On 6/5/2025 9:02 AM, Eli Schwartz wrote:

Any knowledgeable AI user will tell you: AI*cannot* be safely used
unless you already know what you are doing and can review the results
before running it.

I use LLM-based tooling frequently in my job, and this really is the
key. You have to be able to detect when something looks plausible but
may not work. Even worse, using it as a learning tool, you may not be
learning the conventions folks generally abide when using these. In my experience; even when prompted well (which requires domain knowledge in
the topic you're prompting about) it gets things right about 70%-80% of
the time -- and some of those are sneaky hard to find unless you know
what to look for.

That doesn't mean it's useless -- far from it -- but it does mean you
probably shouldn't be using it as a primary source to learn from. At
least in it's current form.

-JayF

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On 6/5/25 12:16 PM, Mark Knecht wrote:

<hehe>

I sense a certain overriding fear about the future...

</hehe>

I'm not worried about the future, I'm worried about today, and today's
users seeking help and getting led astray.

To each his own. I agree with you in general - don't trust AI with
anything important. If you prefer then 'trust but verify'.

I don't consider AI to provide value enhancement for me at all, for much
the same reason as described at

https://infosec.exchange/@david_chisnall/113690087142854474

It saves time on writing code. It costs *more* time in debugging subtle
edge cases. This is a steep disadvantage for a technology that is full
of questions about legal liability!

Of course, your mileage may vary... if it's only for personal use you
may not care about legal liability, and if you couldn't write it
yourself at all then maybe the debugging is worth it.



--
Eli Schwartz

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On 6/5/25 09:59, Dale wrote:

I'm not big on the AI thing yet either.  Reminds me of that movie
Terminator and a few others.  I'm not real sure about us going down that road myself.

One thing I like about the book I linked to, it is new.  It should be
good for all the new versions of software.  The bad thing about being
new, no one has wrote a review on it yet.  I was hoping someone here
might have bought a copy or knew someone who did.  I think I'll risk it
and just buy the thing.  I'm not looking to create a new distro or
anything so it should hopefully be good enough, if I can understand what
it is saying.

Like that command mountpoint.  I was wondering how one can check if something is mounted or not.  No idea that existed.  o_O

I'll post back when it comes in and I get a chance to read it.  If I can figure out what it is saying, it should be good for almost anyone.  😂

Thanks.

Dale

Dale,

Have you gotten in touch with the author to see if AI was used to help
write the code in the book? As the book was released just last month and
AI has become very popular as a helper with creative and programming activities, there is always the chance that using the book will only be avoiding AI in the most direct way. :-)

Sorry, I could not help myself. Both people and AI are fallible, so
always test your code out as was suggested before using it on your systems.

I have bought many linux books through PackT
(https://www.packtpub.com/en-us) and Humble Bundles (https://www.humblebundle.com/books), even some from Oreilly (https://www.oreilly.com/) before they became a subscription service.
Many of them started out great in the first chapter or two, and then
whoosh, I could not follow along. I don't know if it was me or the books
that were causing the misunderstanding. :-)

I hope the book works out great for you and helps you make your goal.

Regards,
Eric

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Il 05/06/25 05:49, Dale ha scritto:

Howdy,

As most know, I have very basic script skills.  Most of you wouldn't
even call my stuff scripts most likely.  I'm not sure if they meet the definition either.  I have quite a few "scripts" that I use to do all
sorts of things.  I use scripts to unlock and mount encrypted drive
sets, update backups and all that sort of thing.  I'd like to add some things to my little scripts but don't know how.  I know it can be done tho.  Example.  I'd like to add a section that when I run a script to unlock and mount a drive set, I'd like it to check and make sure it
isn't already open and/or mounted.  If it is not one or both of those things, then do whichever one, or both, that are not already done.  For
my backup scripts, I'd like to add a section that makes sure the drive
set for the backup is unlocked and mounted first.  If not, print out
that it is not mounted and stop.  I wouldn't mind learning some other
stuff to.  I just want to keep the cost down a bit, used is also a
option if in real good shape.  I also don't want to buy a book that
doesn't have what I need.

Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide (https://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/)

Available for free online so you can see if all you need is in, or in
printed version from various resources. Full of code snippets to get you started.

It's not an easy read but the fault is bash, not the author's!
bash syntax looks like it was studied to make you forget even the
simplest things in no time, if you don't use it everyday (which I don't).

raffaele

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Il 05/06/25 05:49, Dale ha scritto:

So, I'm looking for a book, paperback would be nice but hardback is fine too.  I found this.  I may look for a used version elsewhere too.
Reading what is described, this sounds like a good place to start.

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Easy-Linux-Bash-Scripting/dp/B0F7GF439K

Any thoughts on one I linked too?  Will that be OK for me to start out
with given my VERY basic skills?  Know of something better?  When I was
a kid, I was pretty good with BASIC on the old Commodore VIC-20 and 64.
That was a LONG time ago tho.

I doubt anybody would find useful and complete the "Setting up a Linux environment" page visible in the preview.

Also, 120 pages to explain Linux commands _and_ bash seem too few to
really progress you from beginner to advanced.

raffaele

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On 6/5/25 2:48 PM, Arve Barsnes wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 at 19:56, yahoo <[email protected]> wrote:

Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide (https://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/)

Available for free online so you can see if all you need is in, or in
printed version from various resources. Full of code snippets to get you
started.

Also the bash book from the bunch of programming books created by the StackOverflow bunch a few years ago. I remember those got good
feedback.

https://goalkicker.com/BashBook/

Regards,
Arve

https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide is a must-read, I would say. In
fact, the entire wiki is an excellent reference manual for both
beginners and knowledgeable developers.


--
Eli Schwartz

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On 6/10/25 10:33 AM, Mark Knecht wrote:

<hehe> Don't listen to me....

Correct, we should not. Not only is your LLM wrong, you (Mark) did not proofread the result.

Despite this being the foundation of the criticism you are slyly
referencing with your "hehe".

In bash scripting, what purpose do { and } serve?

In Bash scripting, { and } have several purposes depending on the context:

[...]

Array Definition (in newer versions of Bash):

Used to define an array or reference elements within an array.

Example:

bash

my_array=(one two three)
echo ${my_array[1]} # Outputs "two"

"array definition"? Are you (Mark, not the LLM) crazy?


--
Eli Schwartz

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Il 10/06/25 16:33, Mark Knecht ha scritto:

On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 2:42 AM Dale <[email protected]> wrote:

The book is nice. It's just not what I'm looking for. I may try to
find something cheap on Ebay.

<hehe> Don't listen to me....

Dale asked for a book. LLM was worth mentioning, but insisting on it is answering a different question.

raffaele

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