Howdy,

I asked about this in a thread recently but can't find it now.  Not sure
why because it wasn't that long ago.  In that thread, I was asking about deleting /boot/grub as it was used for the old grub, not the new and
improved monster sometimes referred to as grub2.  I think it was Neil
that suggested just renaming the directory to grub.old.  Thought that
was a reasonable suggestion so that's what I did.  Dang, Neil gives some seriously good advice plus he has those nifty signature lines.  ;-)  I
had some kworker process that just wouldn't go away and was using a good
bit of CPU time for some reason.  I decided to reboot to reset that and
guess what, grub puked all over my keyboard about a missing file. 
Anyone care to guess where that file lives? 

TLDR, skip to last paragraph.  After the nasty puking job, I had a grub
rescue prompt.  No freaking clue what to do so out comes the cell phone
and a bit of googling.  Couldn't figure it out so I dug around and found
a old Knoppix DVD and used that to boot with.  I used the mv command to
rename the directory after starting lvm, mounting stuff etc etc.  I
wanted to reinstall grub but had issues using chroot.  Anyway, I
rebooted and grub worked. 

Of course, I recently updated to a new kernel, it got about 2 seconds
into the boot up and it puked on my keyboard with a panic.  Reboot again
and use previous kernel, anyone not understand why I keep backup
kernels?  ROFL  Now here's the kicker.  After getting booted up with the previous kernel, screen 2 on my video card wouldn't work.  That's my TV screen.  I ended up having to do a complete power off, what some call a
hard reset.  Rebooted witha working grub, a known good kernel, that can
find all the files it needs, and my second screen comes up. 

Should I reinstall grub after removing the old directory so it puts
things where it needs to be or what?  Or does a new install have that
old directory too?  While at it, is there something that can give me
better options in cases like this or do I need to stop renaming stuff?

The reason for the post is the above questions and this.  If you have a
old grub directory in /boot, do not delete or rename that until you know
grub has all the files it needs elsewhere.  It will get upset and it
won't do you any good either.  Right now, I don't have to wash my hair,
I can just polish my head.  I pulled out a lot of hair dealing with this
and I'd rather no one else had to. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

P. S.  Since my old system rescue CD didn't work, I think it's
scratched, I'm off to make some rescue options, sysrescue and Knoppix
too, just to be sure. 

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:37, Dale <[email protected]> wrote:

Should I reinstall grub after removing the old directory so it puts
things where it needs to be or what? Or does a new install have that
old directory too? While at it, is there something that can give me
better options in cases like this or do I need to stop renaming stuff?

For what it's worth, this machine is new enough to only ever having
had grub2 on it, and the directory in /boot is still named /boot/grub

Regards,
Arve

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Arve Barsnes wrote:

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:37, Dale <[email protected]> wrote:

Should I reinstall grub after removing the old directory so it puts
things where it needs to be or what? Or does a new install have that
old directory too? While at it, is there something that can give me
better options in cases like this or do I need to stop renaming stuff?

For what it's worth, this machine is new enough to only ever having
had grub2 on it, and the directory in /boot is still named /boot/grub

Regards,
Arve

I have a grub, old from original install, and grub2, that was added when
I switched to the new grub.  I would have thought the old directory was
no longer needed but it appears it is for some reason.  I've reinstalled
using the grub-mkconfig command but have not reinstalled using the
grub-install command.  I'm tempted to rename the old directory, install
like I would from a fresh new install, MBR and all, then see if it
boots.  Thing is, having to use the rescue tools if it fails is a bit of
a pain.  Also, I need to let my hair regrow a bit.  ;-)

I'm so glad I had printed the info I needed and filed it in a folder.  I
would have been in a real bad situation if I hadn't. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Michael wrote:

On Saturday, 5 February 2022 08:37:48 GMT Dale wrote:

Arve Barsnes wrote:

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:37, Dale <[email protected]> wrote:

Should I reinstall grub after removing the old directory so it puts
things where it needs to be or what? Or does a new install have that
old directory too? While at it, is there something that can give me
better options in cases like this or do I need to stop renaming stuff?

For what it's worth, this machine is new enough to only ever having
had grub2 on it, and the directory in /boot is still named /boot/grub

Regards,
Arve

I have a grub, old from original install, and grub2, that was added when
I switched to the new grub. I would have thought the old directory was
no longer needed but it appears it is for some reason.

You don't provide enough information about your /boot, fs layout, etc., so it is difficult to know why the new GRUB2 failed to work. As a rule of thumb, if
GRUB2 had worked before the likely problem is file corruption, or forgetting to run grub-mkconfig after you made and copied over your new kernel and initrd
- it depends on what the message was when it failed to boot and what file it couldn't find.

I'd run fsck on the /boot partition to make sure there is no fs corruption and
hdparm on the disk would be advisable too.

It failed with a missing normal.mod file.  That file is in the old grub directory.  Once I renamed the directory back to what grub expected, the system loaded grub fine.  There's been other threads about kernel boot problems and the one I recently built could be having one of those
problems.  I haven't looked into that.  I doubt there is any file system problem.  The problem was me renaming a directory that grub still needs
files from.  There is likely a way around this but my post was to warn
others that renaming that directory could cause problems. 

I've reinstalled
using the grub-mkconfig command but have not reinstalled using the
grub-install command. I'm tempted to rename the old directory, install
like I would from a fresh new install, MBR and all, then see if it
boots. Thing is, having to use the rescue tools if it fails is a bit of
a pain. Also, I need to let my hair regrow a bit. ;-)

Take a look at this page to make sure you don't remove some GRUB file needed for a boot:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Migration

There are other GRUB related pages in the wiki to help with configuring GRUB2.

BTW, you don't need the old legacy GRUB as a fall back to boot your system. You can use a LiveCD/DVD/USB and you can configure your GRUB2 to boot this from your /boot, or some rescue partition on disk. Of course, if GRUB or your
/boot fs/partition is borked, then a LiveUSB is always handy. ;-)

That's the page I followed way back when I switched.  It worked fine and
was nice to have it chainload which gives one a backup boot method. 

I don't have the old grub installed, just a directory that was installed
by the old grub but contains files that the new grub needs.  The file
and path it needs is this:  /boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod  Why that
isn't installed in the new grub directory and told to look there for it,
I have no idea at the moment.  I may test it one day but don't feel the
desire to try it today. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, 5 February 2022 08:37:48 GMT Dale wrote:

Arve Barsnes wrote:

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 07:37, Dale <[email protected]> wrote:

Should I reinstall grub after removing the old directory so it puts
things where it needs to be or what? Or does a new install have that
old directory too? While at it, is there something that can give me
better options in cases like this or do I need to stop renaming stuff?

For what it's worth, this machine is new enough to only ever having
had grub2 on it, and the directory in /boot is still named /boot/grub

Regards,
Arve

I have a grub, old from original install, and grub2, that was added when
I switched to the new grub. I would have thought the old directory was
no longer needed but it appears it is for some reason.

You don't provide enough information about your /boot, fs layout, etc., so it is difficult to know why the new GRUB2 failed to work. As a rule of thumb, if GRUB2 had worked before the likely problem is file corruption, or forgetting
to run grub-mkconfig after you made and copied over your new kernel and initrd - it depends on what the message was when it failed to boot and what file it couldn't find.

I'd run fsck on the /boot partition to make sure there is no fs corruption and hdparm on the disk would be advisable too.

I've reinstalled
using the grub-mkconfig command but have not reinstalled using the grub-install command. I'm tempted to rename the old directory, install
like I would from a fresh new install, MBR and all, then see if it
boots. Thing is, having to use the rescue tools if it fails is a bit of
a pain. Also, I need to let my hair regrow a bit. ;-)

Take a look at this page to make sure you don't remove some GRUB file needed for a boot:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Migration

There are other GRUB related pages in the wiki to help with configuring GRUB2.

BTW, you don't need the old legacy GRUB as a fall back to boot your system.
You can use a LiveCD/DVD/USB and you can configure your GRUB2 to boot this
from your /boot, or some rescue partition on disk. Of course, if GRUB or your /boot fs/partition is borked, then a LiveUSB is always handy. ;-)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, 5 February 2022 09:36:44 GMT Dale wrote:

It failed with a missing normal.mod file. That file is in the old grub directory. Once I renamed the directory back to what grub expected, the system loaded grub fine.

Ahh! The normal.mod command:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/normal.html

You won't get a boot menu without this file, or a lot of GRUB commands. However, in a GRUB2 installation this file is found here:

# find /boot/ -name normal.mod
/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod

It should not exist the old legacy filesystem. :-/

I wonder if you have somehow mixed the legacy and new GRUB2 files?

Anyway, the solution is to go fishing for it from the GRUB rescue prompt, using the ls command and then set root and set prefix before you can insmode it.

There's been other threads about kernel boot
problems and the one I recently built could be having one of those
problems. I haven't looked into that. I doubt there is any file system problem. The problem was me renaming a directory that grub still needs
files from. There is likely a way around this but my post was to warn
others that renaming that directory could cause problems.

Right, renaming should be done carefully as you could mix the legacy and GRUB2 filesystems.

I've reinstalled
using the grub-mkconfig command but have not reinstalled using the
grub-install command.

Right, the 'grub-mkconfig' command only generates a new grub.cfg file and overwrites the old one. It does not *install* GRUB, whereby install involves dropping GRUB's bootloader code in the MBR and also copying all GRUB files into /boot.

TBH, once GRUB2 is installed properly and it works, it tends to carry on doing so. So the question remains, why did it barf at its normal.mod path ...


[snip ...]

I don't have the old grub installed, just a directory that was installed
by the old grub but contains files that the new grub needs.

Hmm ... that should not be the case. The legacy and GRUB2 filesystems are different.

The file
and path it needs is this: /boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod Why that
isn't installed in the new grub directory and told to look there for it,
I have no idea at the moment. I may test it one day but don't feel the desire to try it today.

Life's a mystery! :-)
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 05/02/2022 11:21, Michael wrote:

On Saturday, 5 February 2022 09:36:44 GMT Dale wrote:

It failed with a missing normal.mod file. That file is in the old grub
directory. Once I renamed the directory back to what grub expected, the
system loaded grub fine.

Ahh! The normal.mod command:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/normal.html

You won't get a boot menu without this file, or a lot of GRUB commands. However, in a GRUB2 installation this file is found here:

# find/boot/ -name normal.mod
/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod

It should not exist the old legacy filesystem. :-/

I wonder if you have somehow mixed the legacy and new GRUB2 files?

Anyway, the solution is to go fishing for it from the GRUB rescue prompt, using
the ls command and then set root and set prefix before you can insmode it.

My gentoo /boot directory doesn't have a /boot/grub directory in it.
Look and see if your grub.cfg has references to /boot/grub or
/boot/grub2. (SUSE put one in its setup ...)

The easy thing to do is rename BOTH your grub and grub2 directories, run grub-mkconfig, and check if the .cfg contains any reference to your
renamed directories.

Then when everything boots successfully, try backing up and removing
them, and see if everything still works.

Cheers,
Wol

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Michael wrote:

On Saturday, 5 February 2022 09:36:44 GMT Dale wrote:

It failed with a missing normal.mod file. That file is in the old grub
directory. Once I renamed the directory back to what grub expected, the
system loaded grub fine.

Ahh! The normal.mod command:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/normal.html

You won't get a boot menu without this file, or a lot of GRUB commands. However, in a GRUB2 installation this file is found here:

# find /boot/ -name normal.mod
/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod

It should not exist the old legacy filesystem. :-/

I wonder if you have somehow mixed the legacy and new GRUB2 files?

Anyway, the solution is to go fishing for it from the GRUB rescue prompt, using
the ls command and then set root and set prefix before you can insmode it.

I kind of tried to do that.  Thing is, it doesn't do tab completion or anything and I forgot I had renamed that directory until I booted a
rescue media and did a ls on it from that.  Then I remembered renaming
it and simply renamed it back.  After that, grub was happy.  Of course,
then I ran into the bad kernel and after that my second screen wasn't
working either.  Things sort of ganged up on me all at once.  It's one
reason I hate rebooting.  I have to say tho, dracut has been good to me
so far.  Only had one init thingy go bad.  I simply booted a old kernel
and fixed the new bad init thingy.  Still, I hate rebooting.  From uprecords: 


root@fireball / # uprecords
     #               Uptime | System                                    
Boot up ----------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
     1   303 days, 11:46:23 | Linux 4.5.2-gentoo        Sat Jul 29 23:20:27 2017
     2   227 days, 22:10:30 | Linux 5.6.7-gentoo        Wed Oct 28 13:59:36 2020
     3   200 days, 06:51:46 | Linux 4.18.12-gentoo      Sat Jan 12 03:42:55 2019
     4   193 days, 09:28:37 | Linux 3.5.3-gentoo        Sat Sep 22 07:50:38 2012
     5   184 days, 15:47:57 | Linux 3.18.7-gentoo       Tue Dec 15 21:53:59 2015
     6   166 days, 20:47:12 | Linux 5.6.7-gentoo        Thu May 14 00:47:09 2020
     7   143 days, 15:05:26 | Linux 4.5.2-gentoo        Sun Oct 23 20:09:26 2016
     8   138 days, 11:27:28 | Linux 4.5.2-gentoo        Tue May 29 13:27:44 2018
     9   135 days, 11:11:44 | Linux 4.5.2-gentoo        Thu Mar 16 11:58:17 2017
    10   119 days, 02:59:44 | Linux 4.19.40-gentoo      Wed Jul 31 12:12:08 2019

There's been other threads about kernel boot
problems and the one I recently built could be having one of those
problems. I haven't looked into that. I doubt there is any file system
problem. The problem was me renaming a directory that grub still needs
files from. There is likely a way around this but my post was to warn
others that renaming that directory could cause problems.

Right, renaming should be done carefully as you could mix the legacy and GRUB2
filesystems.

Well, I expected everything the new grub needed to be in the new grub2 folder.  I think that is what Neil was expecting as well.  Just renaming
the directory instead of deleting it was a really good idea tho.  Of
course, everything is in /usr and can be restored from there but that
means having to set up lvm since /usr is on a lvm as is /var as well. 

I've reinstalled
using the grub-mkconfig command but have not reinstalled using the
grub-install command.

Right, the 'grub-mkconfig' command only generates a new grub.cfg file and overwrites the old one. It does not *install* GRUB, whereby install involves dropping GRUB's bootloader code in the MBR and also copying all GRUB files into
/boot.

TBH, once GRUB2 is installed properly and it works, it tends to carry on doing
so. So the question remains, why did it barf at its normal.mod path ...

[snip ...]

I don't have the old grub installed, just a directory that was installed
by the old grub but contains files that the new grub needs.

Hmm ... that should not be the case. The legacy and GRUB2 filesystems are different.

The file
and path it needs is this: /boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod Why that
isn't installed in the new grub directory and told to look there for it,
I have no idea at the moment. I may test it one day but don't feel the
desire to try it today.

Life's a mystery! :-)

Yea, I'm working on it.  Pulling out install info and may rename the
directory and do a complete reinstall process.  Just like I would on a
fresh install.  That should fix it.  If not, I understand more about the
grub rescue terminal at least.  I'm going to look that info up and do
some printing with my nifty duplex laser printer.  I hate the cost of
toner but I love the printing it does. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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