Hello!

On 6/11/22 17:47, Stan Johnson wrote:

Well, that's a good thing, some security experts might say, since those
older versions of SSH have been found to have vulnerabilites and should
no longer be used. Which would be a great argument if it were always
possible to run the latest operating system on all platforms. The
problem is that some of those SSH clients live in operating systems that can't be upgraded, such as Mac OS 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) or Mac OS
10.13.6 (High Sierra) on some hardware.

Are you sure you can't just install a more recent version of OpenSSH on
these machines? At least Macports has OpenSSH 9.0 which should still work
fine on older version of OSX [1].

I should probably send this request to the SSH upstream developers, but
it's likely that none of them would be interested in bringing back older features that are deemed to be less secure, unless a major distribution
(such as Debian) supports the effort.

Well, at least the Debian PowerPC mailing list is probably the wrong list
to ask but rather debian-devel.

I could also install my own copy of an older version of SSH, but sooner
or later older versions will no longer compile on modern GNU/Linux distributions. Or I could just keep using telnet and ftp over already-secure internal networks.

Or just install a newer client version on the older operating systems. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adrian

[1] https://ports.macports.org/port/openssh/

--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer
`. `' Physicist
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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Hello,

The latest SSH server available in Debian SID no longer allows
connections from older SSH clients from just a few years ago.

Well, that's a good thing, some security experts might say, since those
older versions of SSH have been found to have vulnerabilites and should
no longer be used. Which would be a great argument if it were always
possible to run the latest operating system on all platforms. The
problem is that some of those SSH clients live in operating systems that
can't be upgraded, such as Mac OS 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) or Mac OS
10.13.6 (High Sierra) on some hardware. Sometimes, older SSH clients can
be made to work by adjusting ssh_config on the client or sshd_config on
the server (to change the allowed cyphers, for example), but sometimes,
and more recently, even that doesn't work. And often scp just doesn't
work at all, even when ssh does.

I would suggest that even a ten-year-old version of ssh is more secure
than telnet or ftp. But I'm using telnet and ftp routinely now on new installations whenever I can't get ssh to work. It would be nice if
there were a "--legacy" or similar option for sshd to allow connections
from older clients.

This isn't much of an issue for m68k, since most of those systems are
too slow to support ssh very well, anyway, but powerpc/powerpc64 systems support ssh just fine.

I should probably send this request to the SSH upstream developers, but
it's likely that none of them would be interested in bringing back older features that are deemed to be less secure, unless a major distribution
(such as Debian) supports the effort. I could also install my own copy
of an older version of SSH, but sooner or later older versions will no
longer compile on modern GNU/Linux distributions. Or I could just keep
using telnet and ftp over already-secure internal networks.

-Stan Johnson

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On Jun 11, 2022, at 9:21 PM, Christian Calderon <[email protected]> wrote:

FWIW, last I checked MacPorts SSH doesn’t compile on ppc anymore.

Not sure why it shouldn’t though.

If not, try Homebrew. We have the latest versions of the GNU and LLVM toolchain on 32-bit PowerPC after all

Adrian

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FWIW, last I checked MacPorts SSH doesn’t compile on ppc anymore.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2022, at 8:53 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello!

On 6/11/22 17:47, Stan Johnson wrote:
Well, that's a good thing, some security experts might say, since those
older versions of SSH have been found to have vulnerabilites and should
no longer be used. Which would be a great argument if it were always
possible to run the latest operating system on all platforms. The
problem is that some of those SSH clients live in operating systems that
can't be upgraded, such as Mac OS 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) or Mac OS
10.13.6 (High Sierra) on some hardware.

Are you sure you can't just install a more recent version of OpenSSH on
these machines? At least Macports has OpenSSH 9.0 which should still work fine on older version of OSX [1].

I should probably send this request to the SSH upstream developers, but
it's likely that none of them would be interested in bringing back older
features that are deemed to be less secure, unless a major distribution
(such as Debian) supports the effort.

Well, at least the Debian PowerPC mailing list is probably the wrong list
to ask but rather debian-devel.

I could also install my own copy of an older version of SSH, but sooner
or later older versions will no longer compile on modern GNU/Linux
distributions. Or I could just keep using telnet and ftp over already-secure >> internal networks.

Or just install a newer client version on the older operating systems. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adrian

[1] https://ports.macports.org/port/openssh/

--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer
`. `' Physicist
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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LLVM doesn’t work on Darwin PPC at all due to ABI inconsistencies, so that is useless on MacOS at present (perhaps someone like Adrian could fix it).

Homebrew only supports MacOS 10.15 and up, so that is useless on older darwin systems too.

Current ssh may well compile on darwin PPC uisng Macports — haven’t tried recently as I use debian now.

Ken

On Jun 11, 2022, at 12:26 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <[email protected]> wrote:

On Jun 11, 2022, at 9:21 PM, Christian Calderon <[email protected]> wrote:

FWIW, last I checked MacPorts SSH doesn’t compile on ppc anymore.

Not sure why it shouldn’t though.

If not, try Homebrew. We have the latest versions of the GNU and LLVM toolchain on 32-bit PowerPC after all

Adrian

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This message is in MIME format.

List members, et alia:

Indeed it is a rare occasion upon which I post to this list, however,
in the instant case, I think it is warranted.

I have to admit I was overcome by laughter as I read the complaints of
someone desiring that an old architecture be supported forever by
software that is open source!

I am not opposed to using old hardware (I have a TRS-80 Model I and
Model III), but, the expectation that it will be supported forever by
software developers is full on ludicrous. Moreover, OpenSSH is open
source, and whilst you can ask others to add features so too can you
add them yourself or you can pay someone to do so. There really is
nothing here to cry or pish about. That said, I am not opposed in
anyway to the idea of having a proposed "--legacy" option for OpenSSH.

Frankly, for me, I use current software for things I am dependent upon
or are related to systems I depend upon. Older software and operating
systems are fine for hobbyist purposes.

 
Very Respectfully,

Stuart Blake Tener, BScCS, N3GWG (Extra), MROP
Computer Scientist / FCC Licensed Radio Operator

Las Vegas, NV / Philadelphia, PA

(310) 358-0202 Mobile Phone
(215) 338-6005 Google Voice

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><p>
List members, et alia:<br>
<br>
Indeed it is a rare occasion upon which I post to this list, however, in the instant case, I think it is warranted.<br>
<br>
I have to admit I was overcome by laughter as I read the complaints of someone desiring that an old architecture be supported forever by software that is open source!<br>
<br>
I am not opposed to using old hardware (I have a TRS-80 Model I and Model III), but, the expectation that it will be supported forever by software developers is full on&nbsp;ludicrous. Moreover, OpenSSH is open source, and whilst you can ask others to
add features so too can you add them yourself or you can pay someone to do so. There really is nothing here to cry or pish about. That said, I am not opposed in anyway to the idea of having a proposed "--legacy" option for OpenSSH.<br>
<br>
Frankly, for me, I use current software for things I am dependent upon or are related to systems I depend upon. Older software and operating systems are fine for hobbyist purposes.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;</p>
<div>
Very Respectfully,<br>
<br>
Stuart Blake Tener, BScCS, N3GWG (Extra), MROP<br>
Computer Scientist / FCC Licensed Radio Operator<br>
<br>
Las Vegas, NV / Philadelphia, PA<br>
<br>
(310) 358-0202 Mobile Phone<br>
(215) 338-6005 Google Voice</div></body></html>

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