This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
On 2025-07-11 at 15:44, Chris Green wrote:

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems. There used to be a 'character' selection program in 'Accessories' on the menu but it
seems to have disappeared. How can I select the odd wierd character
I need now?

I don't know what program that is, but when I need to pick an unusual
character that I'm not set up to enter in a more straightforward way,
the program I use is gucharmap.

--
The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEJCOqsZEc2qVC44pUBKk1jTQoMmsFAmhxb2YACgkQBKk1jTQo MmskXBAAmG/F1/ogj+Jq6WFS9i8tlqwLxiHf8KRS38JelHqLwW9nFJOX/PwjD2al 96PhQVMb9zmt9Z/bI/NQ1+2dqAySD4ffk3BipFMftnKyuD19g6q7+0M598ay1qCp ZqVgkIamJu/TRFV9pFg4GJsq2BbOXsa4xL0i6pWkTjyu6d7ZZUYMeg/DqVMfJN70 uFLlP+sLXF0WdnhZc/jx1Y+FHgSg2f759ZJx1ECqat0x/9nuzClwbG7pMiIpuCS6 ilpAhALuMM1NKPA5tfuiqd0LI2jL8aGnGyUTv3QqpvZtAnDp1mr6DOxv5mINxWdP 1WjGXsCuJNSE6S8GwWwu9jAa77mp7pCM0mGBWb4bGIcy7vNNsh5QGaj8AFLBCiLD v3BxcSkoMr2rBBlMfLTf2WTo9Sha4BV6c08m4YxSafaLneAwCbbnn2d+xrFKYiH3 GL7ztkHBtCu0DWK2KD5c+d1T6xfAkUAyzjmYoxfj33mOff9ffnYh7ku+r20l3iH0 +2QGL4J+ndbNFHfGYYdp18bBB/GpZracyFQH3VZY5yzRWw0u4qc1ecxsNpVgztXE zEyVRFlBoftwnQpT+NOL6Txjfia9ZY9Ll3uo9+6elbG9X14LVFGatTTrvdAQ2gou avSkAds2uuwgVQcNZ82XGbEqipMD

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems. There used to be a
'character' selection program in 'Accessories' on the menu but it
seems to have disappeared. How can I select the odd wierd character I
need now?

I only noticed because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol. I've used
the character map accessory for years and would really miss it if I
can't get it back.

--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 20:44:13 +0100,
Chris Green<[email protected]> wrote:

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems. There used to be a >'character' selection program in 'Accessories' on the menu but it
seems to have disappeared. How can I select the odd wierd character I
need now?

I only noticed because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol. I've used
the character map accessory for years and would really miss it if I
can't get it back.

You could try gucharmap for the package with the same name.

-- Andreas Rönnquist
[email protected]
[email protected]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 20:44:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

I only noticed because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol. I've used
the character map accessory for years and would really miss it if I
can't get it back.

I can't help you with your Desktop Environment accessories, but here
are a couple alternatives:

1) Configure a Compose key, then press <Compose> <o> <o> to make �

2) Do a web search for something like "UTF-8 degree symbol", find a
page that has the glyph you want, and copy it from there with the
mouse.

Doing a Google search right now gave me an "AI Overview" (blech!)
which happened to contain the � glyph, so I could copy it straight
from there without even needing to open another web page. But in
general, there are several good web pages out there with collections
of glyphs that you can copy from.

But in this particular case, I already know that <Compose> <o> <o>
works for this glyph, so that's what I would go with.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 09:51:19 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 12/07/2025 05:24, Greg Wooledge wrote:

1) Configure a Compose key, then press <Compose> <o> <o> to make �

2) Do a web search for something like "UTF-8 degree symbol"

grep -i degree /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
<dead_abovering> <space> : "�" degree # DEGREE SIGN <dead_abovering> <dead_abovering> : "�" degree # DEGREE SIGN <Multi_key> <o> <o> : "�" degree # DEGREE SIGN <Multi_key> <asterisk> <0> : "�" degree # DEGREE SIGN <Multi_key> <0> <asterisk> : "�" degree # DEGREE SIGN

There is a bit outdated article <https://wiki.debian.org/XCompose>

What's wrong with it? (P.S. check the page history. I'm aware of
the page.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2025, Chris Green wrote:

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems.
... because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol.

On this Debian 12 machine (QWERTY keyboard) with Xfce, I have the following keyboard setup : Xfce -> Applications -> Settings -> Keyboard -> Layout = English(US), with Variant = English (US, intl, with dead keys) .

This provides the ° character with the three keys RightAlt + Shift + :

I didn't need any additional character mapping.

This setup also makes it easy to write in french with accents.

Roger

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Roger Price <[email protected]> wrote:

[-- text/plain, encoding 8bit, charset: UTF-8, 16 lines --]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2025, Chris Green wrote:

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems.
... because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol.

On this Debian 12 machine (QWERTY keyboard) with Xfce, I have the following keyboard setup : Xfce -> Applications -> Settings -> Keyboard -> Layout = English(US), with Variant = English (US, intl, with dead keys) .

This provides the ° character with the three keys RightAlt + Shift + :

I didn't need any additional character mapping.

This setup also makes it easy to write in french with accents.

OP here. Yes, for accented characters and such I use a compose key,
so é is <compose key> + e + ', and so on. However I can't always
guess the right sequence for less frequently used things like block
graphic characters and, in this case, degrees.

--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Jeffrey Walton <[email protected]> wrote:

On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 3:50 PM Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems. There used to be a 'character' selection program in 'Accessories' on the menu but it
seems to have disappeared. How can I select the odd wierd character I
need now?

I only noticed because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol. I've used
the character map accessory for years and would really miss it if I
can't get it back.

I don't run XFCE, so I can't provide an exact answer.

The program is usually referred to as a Character Map. XFCE has
several candidates, including gucharmap and ucdmap. See <https://www.google.com/search?q=XFCE+%22character+map%22+program>.

Thanks, gucharmap was the program I lost, I don't quite know when it
got uninstalled. Anyway I have it back now, thank you! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat 12 Jul 2025 at 08:13:34 (+0100), Chris Green wrote:

Roger Price wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2025, Chris Green wrote:

I'm running Debian 12 with XFCE on two systems.
... because I just needed a 'degrees' symbol.

On this Debian 12 machine (QWERTY keyboard) with Xfce, I have the following keyboard setup : Xfce -> Applications -> Settings -> Keyboard -> Layout = English(US), with Variant = English (US, intl, with dead keys) .

This provides the ° character with the three keys RightAlt + Shift + :

I didn't need any additional character mapping.

This setup also makes it easy to write in french with accents.

OP here. Yes, for accented characters and such I use a compose key,
so é is <compose key> + e + ', and so on. However I can't always
guess the right sequence for less frequently used things like block
graphic characters and, in this case, degrees.

You can write your own sequences, so that they are meaningful to you.
For example:
<Multi_key> <numbersign> <d> <b> : "𝄫" U1d12b # MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT
<Multi_key> <numbersign> <d> <s> : "𝄪" U1d12a # MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP
<Multi_key> <s> <x> : "✄" U2704 # WHITE SCISSORS
are three of mine. Another is:
<Multi_key> <c> <o> : "©" copyright # COPYRIGHT SIGN so that I don't have to remember whether it's Compose co or Compose oc.
(Only the latter is defined by the system.)

You can just place your definitions into the file ~/.XCompose, but do put:
include "%S/en_US.UTF-8/Compose"
at the top of your file, because creating this file _replaces_ the
system's version in /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose,
so you need to include the latter to retain its ~6000 definitions.

Cheers,
David.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 23:47:15 -0500, David Wright wrote:

You can write your own sequences, so that they are meaningful to you.
For example:
<Multi_key> <numbersign> <d> <b> : "𝄫" U1d12b # MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT
<Multi_key> <numbersign> <d> <s> : "𝄪" U1d12a # MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP
<Multi_key> <s> <x> : "✄" U2704 # WHITE SCISSORS are three of mine. Another is:
<Multi_key> <c> <o> : "©" copyright # COPYRIGHT SIGN so that I don't have to remember whether it's Compose co or Compose oc.
(Only the latter is defined by the system.)

You can just place your definitions into the file ~/.XCompose, but do put:
include "%S/en_US.UTF-8/Compose"
at the top of your file, because creating this file _replaces_ the
system's version in /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose,
so you need to include the latter to retain its ~6000 definitions.

This is what I originally wrote on <https://wiki.debian.org/XCompose>
(except that I suggested using include "%L" at the top, instead of
hard-coding en_US.UTF-8).

Later, some people thought they were "improving" the page by adding
all kinds of Desktop Environment crap, and now Max is saying that
the page is "outdated".

There's a reason I use the original ~/.XCompose stuff and a simple
xmodmap command to establish the Compose key, and that reason is:

IT WORKS ON EVERY DEBIAN SYSTEM THAT RUNS X11

(I can't help you with Wayland. Sorry. I have not yet been convinced
there's any need for me to make that transition.)

Oh, and there's also a second reason:

IT'S SO MUCH EASIER

But y'all can have fun trying to track your silly Desktop Environment
specific crap, and your DBuses and IBuses and whatever other crazy
animals you have on your systems now, all in the name of "progress".
It's certainly not in the name of "user friendliness".

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Max Nikulin <[email protected]> wrote:

Isn't the issue that XFCE does not provide character map application out
of the box (at least as it is packaged for Debian)?

I have a VM very close to default XFCE install configuration. I have not found gucharmap in menus. On the host I have tried

apt install --dry-run --install-recommends task-xfce-desktop

and the application is not mentioned in the output. I am in doubts if gucharmap mysteriously disappeared or it was never installed on the particular machine.

OP here. I installed Debian 12 with XFCE on my desktop and my laptop
something like a year ago. I moved from xubuntu which I had used for
many years. These were clean, from scratch, installations but I had
my 'list of added packages' from xubuntu (manually kept by me) which I
added immediately after installation of Debian 12.

As far as I can see I never explicitly added gucharmap (I've looked at
my added files list back over 12 months or so). So I'm pretty sure it
must have been installed by default or with something else, it
certainly was installed and I'm sure I've used it in the last month or
so.

I have been trying quite a few new packages recently. If I decide not
to use them I purge them. It may be that gnucharmap got lost in these
additions and removals, either because it's got dependencies from
something I added/removed or because of finger trouble on my part.

Anyway, gucharmap was what I wanted and I'm pleased to have it back
for those esoteric characters that aren't covered by (my setup of) a
Multi_key. :-)

--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 2025-07-14 at 07:02 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

OP here.  I installed Debian 12 with XFCE on my desktop and my laptop something like a year ago. I moved from xubuntu which I had used for
many years.  These were clean, from scratch, installations but I had
my 'list of added packages' from xubuntu (manually kept by me) which
I added immediately after installation of Debian 12.

As far as I can see I never explicitly added gucharmap (I've looked
at my added files list back over 12 months or so).  So I'm pretty
sure it must have been installed by default or with something else,
it certainly was installed and I'm sure I've used it in the last
month or so.

The reason is that 'gucharmap' is not part of XFCE, but Xubuntu
installs it by default (it’s a dependency of the 'xubuntu-desktop' metapackage in Ubuntu).

Debian currently doesn’t have a similar metapackage with an
"opinionated selection" of applications that an XFCE user might want.


--
Jan Claeys

(please don't CC me when replying to the list)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Jan Claeys <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 2025-07-14 at 07:02 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

OP here.  I installed Debian 12 with XFCE on my desktop and my laptop something like a year ago. I moved from xubuntu which I had used for
many years.  These were clean, from scratch, installations but I had
my 'list of added packages' from xubuntu (manually kept by me) which
I added immediately after installation of Debian 12.

As far as I can see I never explicitly added gucharmap (I've looked
at my added files list back over 12 months or so).  So I'm pretty
sure it must have been installed by default or with something else,
it certainly was installed and I'm sure I've used it in the last
month or so.

The reason is that 'gucharmap' is not part of XFCE, but Xubuntu
installs it by default (it’s a dependency of the 'xubuntu-desktop' metapackage in Ubuntu).

Debian currently doesn’t have a similar metapackage with an
"opinionated selection" of applications that an XFCE user might want.

Just my memory playing up then, I felt sure I had used it since moving
from xubuntu to Debian. However the above explanation makes so much
sense I'm sure it's right! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)