On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -0000, Greg wrote:
On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge <[email protected]> wrote:
This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the
original message"?
By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA. Only good ones have it.
Does that mean forward the message to the report-listspam?
No. Forwarding and bouncing are different operations.
One problem for the casual user is that there's bouncing and then
there's bouncing. For most us, bouncing means that the mail server
rejects the email.
Yep. That's where the name comes from. It sends the mail back, with
as much intact info as possible to allow the mail admin to debug the situation. Bouncing from the MUA does technically the same, so the
same name is appropriate.
https://www.activecampaign.com/glossary/bounced-email
For those in the know like you, it means redirecting the email
anonymously to another recipient.
I'm familiar with the latter as an Alpine user, BTW.
On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54AM +0900, John Crawley wrote:
[...]
I think "bouncing" is something that should really be done on a server, not by a user email agent, even a "good" one.
Why do you think so?
At least I gave a reason why bouncing from the MUA makes
sense, and another for why it is almost never done from
an MTA (probably what you call "server").
Even so, "resend" is often available, either built-in or as a plugin, using the "Resent*" fields:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5322#section-3.6.6
The Debian Wiki has these suggestions for how to deal with spam:
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam#nominate
and
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/FAQ#The_lists_are_spam-laden.2C_I_want_to_help_you
So it looks as if resending a spam message to [email protected] is OK, although "bouncing" the message back to the server is very much not, even if your MUA can do that.
You don't "bounce back to the server" (how could you do that?
The server has no mail address). You send the bounce to <[email protected]>, as I stated elsewhere.
That said, the difference between "bounce" and "resend" is
probably minimal. I guess the spam filter training software
will deal with both fine.
On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 05:04:14PM +0900, John Crawley wrote:
BTW why does your message here have my email address as To:, and CC: to the list, even though I had no Reply-to: header in the message you are replying to?
Because I replied using "group reply", and your message had
"From" from you (some lists replace that in the header, the
Debian ones don't).
This is a discussion topic which comes up regularly (some folks
*hate* getting list replies addressed at them). But there is no
nice solution for all, alas.
On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge <[email protected]> wrote:
Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so
your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as the email has
already been delivered to its recipients.
I am not proposing anything. I am *explaining*.
This is the terminology that mutt uses.
It is not the accepted meaning of the term.
https://github.com/mjg59/jargon/blob/master/bounce
:bounce: v. 1. [common; perhaps by analogy to a bouncing check] An
electronic mail message that is undeliverable and returns an error notification to the sender is said to bounce. see also {bounce message}.
I think "bouncing" is something that should really be done on a
server, not by a user email agent, even a "good" one.
I absolutely love bouncing mails in mutt instead of forwarding. I need
some mail on the address I use on my mobile: Just bounce it. I only do
this to my own mail addresses.
Am I alone in this use case of bounces? Or is this considered an
abuse?
Nothing related to spam or server-side bouncing, or maybe even to the intended purpose of bouncing, but I absolutely love bouncing mails
in mutt instead of forwarding. I need some mail on the address
I use on my mobile: Just bounce it. I only do this to my own
mail addresses.
Am I alone in this use case of bounces? Or is this considered an
abuse?
Hi,
On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 11:55:56AM +0200, Ralph Aichinger wrote:
I absolutely love bouncing mails in mutt instead of forwarding. I need
some mail on the address I use on my mobile: Just bounce it. I only do
this to my own mail addresses.
Am I alone in this use case of bounces? Or is this considered an
abuse?
I don't see how sending email to yourself can be considered abusive.
It's rare I will use this feature any more because modern email sender authentication measures are more likely to make the mail fail to arrive.
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
and you bounce that to [email protected], it will arrive at gmail from your current IP address and with From: address still listed as
[email protected]. Since your current network probably isn't authorised
to send email for example.com, if example.com uses SPF this will be an
SPF failure. It will also likely be a DKIM failure due to some added and changed headers. If both fail then this will additionally be a DMARC
failure.
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