On 4/2/25 23:29, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 02 Apr 2025 at 09:12:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 4/2/25 01:28, David Wright wrote:

On Tue 01 Apr 2025 at 04:58:27 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 3/31/25 23:02, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 31 Mar 2025 at 16:35:58 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 3/31/25 13:55, David Wright wrote:

What Brian pointed out in the thread: the lack of 127.0.1.1, the
conventional way in which Debian ensures a host can find its own
name when the network is not up.

I can put it back in, but no one has ever explained why.  And since
it's been gone for 27 years, what name goes with it?
Ack the man page, it should be coyote.coyote.den, but that has been
192.168.71.3 for that same 27 years. [ … ] So
what should I put in there for what the man page says?:
127.0.1.1       thishost.example.org   thishost

127.0.1.1 coyote.coyote.den coyote

Experimenting I find the duplication does not seem to generate an
error, other than I now had to ping itself by address, since the name
is now found at 127.0.1.1 by pings lookup?

That's what you want: as the address is in the 127.0.0.0 network,
pinging it will ping itself, and it gets a reply. It doesn't
require your LAN to be set up, and AIUI it's like localhost
(127.0.0.1) in that it doesn't touch the network hardware.

I'll leave it in the hosts
file as a duplicate,  until I find something that does not work,

I don't see the point in leaving it there. If you want to send
something to coyote.coyote.den, why do you want the LAN address
when 127.0.1.1 is just as good. If the line is correct, it does
nothing; if it's incorrect, it can cause harm.

And coyote's own hosts file can't be seen by other machines trying
to find coyote: they will use their local copy.

Bear in mind that the same holds true for each machine on your LAN,
so the hosts file will be different for each one. My master list,
which I reconcile with the router's DHCP server Reservation List,
is installed onto a system with a line like:

The router is, I believe, running dnsmasq, but is otherwise untouched
dd-wrt

# sed -E "/^[[:space:]]*192.168.1.[0-9]+[[:space:]]+$HOSTNAME.corp[[:space:]]+$HOSTNAME[#|[[:space:]]|\$]/s/[[:space:]]*([0-9.]+)[[:space:]]+(.*)\$/127.0.1.1\t\2\t# \1/" master-list >/etc/hosts

That assumes 1, not 71, corp rather than coyote.den, and it would
fail on your .122 line because the HOSTNAMEs are different for some
reason. (I wrote the pattern to conform to my own expectations.)

Which works for either alias:

gene@coyote:~$ ping bpi51
PING bpi51e5p.coyote.den (192.168.71.122) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from bpi51e5p.coyote.den (192.168.71.122): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.571 ms
gene@coyote:~$ ping e5p
PING bpi51e5p.coyote.den (192.168.71.122) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from bpi51e5p.coyote.den (192.168.71.122): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.592 ms

And I'm sitting here, watching that printers web page, generated by
klipper, both with the webkit in PrusaSlicer on this machine, and with
firefox on a different xfce4 workspace, no difference in the appearance
here on this machine, about 100 feet of cat5 away. It Just Works. ;o)

but
it also has no effect on the 30 second gui freeze on opening a file I
own.

I don't see why it would. But I don't have experience with DEs, so
I wouldn't be much help with a problem like that anyway. I also don't
know what your problem with NM and resolv.conf is all about. But
static addressing with a hosts file doesn't have to be 3rd class,
and I don't feel treated as such.

Cheers,
David.

Thank you David.  Take care of #1.

heers, Gene Heskett, CET.

--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

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On 4/3/25 06:55, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Apr 02, 2025 at 22:28:24 -0500, David Wright wrote:

127.0.1.1 coyote.coyote.den coyote
[...]
I don't see the point in leaving it there. If you want to send
something to coyote.coyote.den, why do you want the LAN address
when 127.0.1.1 is just as good. If the line is correct, it does
nothing; if it's incorrect, it can cause harm.

I disagree with you here. The 127.0.1.1 address is a placeholder put
there by the installer for the more common case where a machine doesn't
have a fixed LAN IP address. Most home or workplace computers these
days will get their addresses from DHCP without a reservation, so their internal addresses may vary.

127.0.1.1 is used when a fixed LAN IP address isn't available. But if
a fixed LAN IP address *is* assigned, that should be used instead.

In Gene's case, where all the addressing is manually assigned and static, using the traditional approach (192.168.x.y coyote.coyote.den coyote)
is actually preferred. It allows a single /etc/hosts file to be
copied across all computers on the LAN without needing to modify it
on each host.

which is the exact case here Greg. That file is copied to every new
machine added on my LAN. Thank you Greg.

OFFTOPIC: I keep a separate /sshnet/listofmachines dir on each machine,
and a script that mounts /home/me of every machine on my LAN to that dir
tree.

 As me, root is not allowed as an sshfs login. And although doing root
stuff is more difficult, sshfs has been many times more dependable than samba/cifs or nfs(4) which has to be reconfigured everytime somebody
changes the dot on an i.  I do have a dhcpd, configured to respond to
only one MAC, it seemed to be required in order for ntpsec to work on
that machine. Then I found chrony didn't need it.  I try to make all my
LAN use this machine for ntp so I don't abuse debians pool. That makes
me a level3 ntp src. Amazingly, if I watch the logs, access from the
rest of the planet seems to be allowed thru dd-wrt and I often see from
1 to 3 outside machines using this one for ntp.

I set that up over a year ago when I bought a QIDI XMax3 printer, which
it turns out is running klipper on the arm32 version of wheezy.  As
printers go, it was designed for PLA, even PETG temps are dangerous to
its $65 extruder due to heat creep during a long print. Grossly
inadequate hotend cooling & a pi$$-poor hotend airflow design.

More than you wanted to know.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

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On 4/3/25 07:49, Dan Purgert wrote:

On Apr 02, 2025, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 02 Apr 2025 at 09:12:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

[...]
Experimenting I find the duplication does not seem to generate an
error, other than I now had to ping itself by address, since the name
is now found at 127.0.1.1 by pings lookup?

That's what you want: as the address is in the 127.0.0.0 network,
pinging it will ping itself, and it gets a reply. It doesn't
require your LAN to be set up, and AIUI it's like localhost
(127.0.0.1) in that it doesn't touch the network hardware.

Indeed, the entirety of 127.0.0.0/8 is the virtual loopback adapter
(i.e. "localhost").

IOW the name associated is a throwaway, could be "me.coyote.den"? 
Works. Thank you Dan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

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On 4/3/25 09:29, Greg wrote:

On 2025-04-03, Dan Purgert <[email protected]> wrote:

That's what you want: as the address is in the 127.0.0.0 network,
pinging it will ping itself, and it gets a reply. It doesn't
require your LAN to be set up, and AIUI it's like localhost
(127.0.0.1) in that it doesn't touch the network hardware.

Indeed, the entirety of 127.0.0.0/8 is the virtual loopback adapter
(i.e. "localhost").

Doubtless yet another fallacious notion, but I thought IPV6 opened up
the flood gates of assigning "real" ip addresses to whatever the heck
Gene's talking about.

I guess it isn't happening any time soon.

The more rural WV areas are an ipv6 desert, and given Debian's penchant
for ipv6, its disabled here.  I've no clue, but it seems to me that if
it gets no replies trying ipv6, it should fall back to ipv4. There may
be some ipv6 in Pittsburg, PA and Hurricane Electric 100 mi south in
star city probably, but there is not a path thru my local ISP to get to
either. I don't miss what I've never seen. Weston is the county seat but struggles to census 7k souls.  I came here in '84 to be the CE at the
local cbs affiliate, helped make it the #1 station in the market,  still
is.

.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

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On Fri, Apr 04, 2025 at 05:17:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 4/3/25 09:29, Greg wrote:

On 2025-04-03, Dan Purgert <[email protected]> wrote:

That's what you want: as the address is in the 127.0.0.0 network, pinging it will ping itself, and it gets a reply. It doesn't
require your LAN to be set up, and AIUI it's like localhost
(127.0.0.1) in that it doesn't touch the network hardware.

Indeed, the entirety of 127.0.0.0/8 is the virtual loopback adapter
(i.e. "localhost").

Doubtless yet another fallacious notion, but I thought IPV6 opened up
the flood gates of assigning "real" ip addresses to whatever the heck Gene's talking about.

I guess it isn't happening any time soon.

The more rural WV areas are an ipv6 desert, and given Debian's penchant for ipv6, its disabled here.  I've no clue, but it seems to me that if it gets no replies trying ipv6, it should fall back to ipv4.

The problem is what is "it". Currently it's each application (using some underlying library). The normal path is:

- resolve the name (there you can get both A and AAAA records, if
the programmers know what they are doing)
- try one of them: which one first? Wait for some timeout (how
long?) try next.
- ideally, try all of them in parallel (suddenly you end up with
an application written in non-blocking style or -GAH!- even
some multi-threaded monster.

The solution is underway, is called "happy eyeballs" [1] and will be
here some day.

At the DNS resolution level you can prioritise whatever suits you by
editing /etc/gai.conf, which comes with a man page.

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eyeballs
--
t

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On 4/4/25 06:10, Dan Purgert wrote:

On Apr 03, 2025, Greg wrote:

On 2025-04-03, Dan Purgert <[email protected]> wrote:

That's what you want: as the address is in the 127.0.0.0 network,
pinging it will ping itself, and it gets a reply. It doesn't
require your LAN to be set up, and AIUI it's like localhost
(127.0.0.1) in that it doesn't touch the network hardware.

Indeed, the entirety of 127.0.0.0/8 is the virtual loopback adapter
(i.e. "localhost").

Doubtless yet another fallacious notion, but I thought IPV6 opened up
the flood gates of assigning "real" ip addresses to whatever the heck
Gene's talking about.

Maybe? I honestly lost the plot to what he's trying to accomplish.

Which is to fix the reason for a 30 second all system freeze of the
system when trying to access a file I own, or want to create, in my
/home/me directory.  Totally derails my train of thought a few hundred
times a day.

Everything will still have a "localhost" entry (albeit "::1" instead of
16 million valid options under 127.0.0.0/8), but yes, everything can
also have publicly routable addresses as well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

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On Fri, Apr 04, 2025 at 10:46:35 -0500, John Hasler wrote:

Gene writes:

Which is to fix the reason for a 30 second all system freeze of the
system when trying to access a file I own, or want to create, in my /home/me directory.

This happens only in that directory and only when you own the file?

If you're going to revive this AGAIN, please start a new thread for it.
Or else necro one of the actual past threads where this has been
discussed, over and over and over and over and over....

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Gene writes:

Which is to fix the reason for a 30 second all system freeze of the
system when trying to access a file I own, or want to create, in my
/home/me directory.

This happens only in that directory and only when you own the file?
--
John Hasler
[email protected]
Elmwood, WI USA

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