• Frequent freezing around login screens

    From W. Pepperdine@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 26 03:10:01 2025
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W. Pepperdine@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 26 18:10:01 2025
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 26 21:30:02 2025
    Hi,

    Is anyone using similar hardware to Pepperdine ? If you are, do you have issues?

    Can anyone give useful suggestions where Pepperdine could start looking for issues?

    I tried "$ journalctl | grep -i error" and the output was not in a useful format on my computer for searching for issues.

    Does anyone know where lightdm and xorg sends it log out put to?

    I have found two suggestions for lightdm, "/var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log" and "journalctl -b -u lightdm" (or "journalctl -u lightdm") ?

    And for xorg /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?

    Some thoughts that I have for searching for issues:

    $ sudo lightdm --test-mode --debug

    $ sudo lightdm --show-config

    # journalctl _PID=630 (for xorg?)
    # journalctl _PID=630 | grep -i error (I do not see any error messages on my computer)

    I found someone on the Internet with a similar issue and a recommendation for a reinstall, though I doubt this will help.
    sudo apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg-video-fbdev
    sudo apt-get install --reinstall lightdm

    This was another log check I noticed someone doing:
    journalctl | grep -i "broken pipe"


    https://www.loggly.com/ultimate-guide/using-journalctl/

    George.


    On Wednesday, 26-03-2025 at 12:51 W. Pepperdine wrote:
    Debian+XFCE freezes randomly either just before, during, or a couple seconds after the login screen. It happens about a third the time, both on booting and on changing users. During a freeze, the screen displays but is not updated and the USB ports
    appear inactive. There is no mouse or keyboard input, not even from SysRq. The only thing to do is a hard shutdown with the power button.

    I first installed Trixie and had this problem and others. Downgraded to Bookworm and have just this problem left. The machine is a ThinkCentre M920q with i5-9600T, 8GB RAM, and UHD Graphics 630.

    Have already had some discussion of log output on Debian User Forums.

    Computer freezing because of LightDM?https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=162147

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 26 23:50:01 2025
    W. Pepperdine,

    Here are outputs of a few queries on log entries from one of my XFCE installations. How do they compare with your logs? Can you see any reports on your computer that could point to what is causing your issue?

    # lightdm --show-config
    [Seat:*]
    B greeter-session=lightdm-greeter
    B greeter-hide-users=true
    B session-wrapper=/etc/X11/Xsession

    Sources:
    B /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/01_debian.conf
    B /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/01_debian.conf
    C /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf

    # journalctl -b -u lightdm

    -- Boot c01f3dd27127484f9e69dda6f7cc7144 --
    Mar 27 09:12:08 tugll03 systemd[1]: Starting lightdm.service - Light Display Manager...
    Mar 27 09:12:08 tugll03 systemd[1]: Started lightdm.service - Light Display Manager.
    Mar 27 09:12:09 tugll03 lightdm[1283]: pam_unix(lightdm-greeter:session): session opened for user lightdm(uid=111) by (uid=0)
    Mar 27 09:12:16 tugll03 lightdm[1445]: gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file
    Mar 27 09:12:16 tugll03 lightdm[1445]: gkr-pam: stashed password to try later in open session
    Mar 27 09:12:17 tugll03 lightdm[1445]: pam_unix(lightdm:session): session opened for user myusername(uid=1000) by (uid=0)
    Mar 27 09:12:17 tugll03 lightdm[1445]: gkr-pam: unlocked login keyring


    # journalctl | grep -i "broken pipe"
    Jan 13 02:00:50 tugll03 libvirt-guests.sh[11395]: error: Cannot write data: Broken pipe
    Feb 04 15:54:14 tugll03 libvirtd[2658]: Unable to write to monitor: Broken pipe Feb 17 22:37:37 tugll03 libvirtd[1501]: Unable to write to monitor: Broken pipe

    # journalctl -u syslog
    -- No entries --


    # journalctl --since "3 hours ago" | grep -i error
    Mar 27 09:12:09 tugll03 kernel: hp_wmi: query 0x4c returned error 0x6
    Mar 27 09:12:10 tugll03 wireplumber[1312]: <WpPortalPermissionStorePlugin:0x557f149b69c0> Failed to call Lookup: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.portal.Error.NotFound: No entry for camera
    Mar 27 09:12:17 tugll03 wireplumber[1473]: <WpPortalPermissionStorePlugin:0x55af5a6dff10> Failed to call Lookup: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.portal.Error.NotFound: No entry for camera




    On Thursday, 27-03-2025 at 07:26 George at Clug wrote:
    Hi,

    Is anyone using similar hardware to Pepperdine ? If you are, do you have issues?

    Can anyone give useful suggestions where Pepperdine could start looking for issues?

    I tried "$ journalctl | grep -i error" and the output was not in a useful format on my computer for searching for issues.

    Does anyone know where lightdm and xorg sends it log out put to?

    I have found two suggestions for lightdm, "/var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log" and "journalctl -b -u lightdm" (or "journalctl -u lightdm") ?

    And for xorg /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?

    Some thoughts that I have for searching for issues:

    $ sudo lightdm --test-mode --debug

    $ sudo lightdm --show-config

    # journalctl _PID=630 (for xorg?)
    # journalctl _PID=630 | grep -i error (I do not see any error messages on my computer)

    I found someone on the Internet with a similar issue and a recommendation for a reinstall, though I doubt this will help.
    sudo apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg-video-fbdev
    sudo apt-get install --reinstall lightdm

    This was another log check I noticed someone doing:
    journalctl | grep -i "broken pipe"


    https://www.loggly.com/ultimate-guide/using-journalctl/

    George.


    On Wednesday, 26-03-2025 at 12:51 W. Pepperdine wrote:
    Debian+XFCE freezes randomly either just before, during, or a couple seconds after the login screen. It happens about a third the time, both on booting and on changing users. During a freeze, the screen displays but is not updated and the USB ports
    appear inactive. There is no mouse or keyboard input, not even from SysRq. The only thing to do is a hard shutdown with the power button.

    I first installed Trixie and had this problem and others. Downgraded to Bookworm and have just this problem left. The machine is a ThinkCentre M920q with i5-9600T, 8GB RAM, and UHD Graphics 630.

    Have already had some discussion of log output on Debian User Forums.

    Computer freezing because of LightDM?https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=162147



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W. Pepperdine@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 27 09:00:01 2025
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  • From Peter Hillier-Brook@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Thu Mar 27 18:50:01 2025
    First all, sorry for top posting. The original thread is in the
    cylindrical filing cabinet.

    I started my day by checking my always on desktop and found it to be
    frozen. At the time I was running KDE and VirtualBox (with a Trixie
    instance) amongst other things. This is of no great concern to me, but I
    posted here in case it offers any help to the OP.

    Further info can be posted if requested.

    Peter HB

    On 27/03/2025 02:32, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 27/03/2025 03:26, George at Clug wrote:
    I tried "$ journalctl | grep -i error"

    First of all, likely it should be "#", not "$" (run it as root: either
    sudo or su). Next

        journalctl --priority=err

    or

        journalctl --priority=warning

    instead of grep.

    However in the case of obscure issues I would recommend against any
    filtering besides time. After system freeze and reboot skim through all
    last messages from previous boot. There is a chance that the action
    caused hang left some traces

        journalctl -b -1

    Time window of the following command may be too narrow, but in some
    cases it is more convenient

        journalctl -b -1 -e

    You can adjust boot ID to get access to earlier failures.

    And for xorg /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?

    /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old

    but avoid graphical login before you copy it. Likely /var/log/Xorg.0.log
    is created by current LightDM session.


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  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 27 23:20:01 2025
    W. Pepperdine,

    Apologies, but I am mostly out of ideas. Hopefully people with more
    knowledge than myself will assist.


    I could not see any issues in the logs that you provided.


    I do not think your issue is with LightDM.  I still think it might
    be with hardware.


    Max suggested checking with journalctl which may help, but I am
    thinking that if the computer is freezing, then nothing can get
    written to the logs anyway, so searching logs may not help.
    For example:

    # journalctl --priority=err --no-pager


    If you can, I suggest installing Debian 12 KDE and see if all works or
    not.  KDE does not use LightDM and instead uses SDDM so if
    your ThinkCentre M920q then locks up, the issue is not LightDM.  If
    you can easily replace the disk drive in the ThinkCentre M920q with
    another disk drive, then you could put aside your existing drive so
    you do not destroy the data on it while doing this test. However if
    you have already reinstalled several times, you may not have any data
    you need to keep on your current disk drive?




    When checking my logs, I found that one of my UDEV rules was still
    using SYSFS instead of ATTRS. For me, correcting this was easy as
    changing SYSFS to ATTRS.



    # grep -i "SYSFS" /etc/udev/rules.d/*.rules


    George.







    On Thursday, 27-03-2025 at 18:34 W. Pepperdine wrote:
    Here are outputs of a few queries on log entries
    from one of my XFCE installations. How do they compare
    with your logs? Can you see any reports on your
    computer that could point to what is causing your issue?
    After a system freeze, I rebooted to the desktop as root and
    collected these reports. Others looked at them but didn't see a cause
    for the freeze.

    /var/log/Xorg.0.log (http://paste.debian.net/1365570/) /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old (http://paste.debian.net/1365571/) /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log (http://paste.debian.net/1365572/) /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log.old (http://paste.debian.net/1365573/)
    dmesg (http://paste.debian.net/1365575/)
    journalctl -b -p3 (http://paste.debian.net/1365578/)

    Any suggestion for what else to check?

    I have three theories for the problem.

    1. It's hardware. The problem is that it's a new machine, checks
    with other software seem OK, and the freezing occurs only during
    login/out.

    2. It's LightDM. Since the freezing only happens around login/out,
    that seems to point to the display manager, but would a frozen DM take
    out the USB ports?
    3. It's the kernel configuration. At the moment, that seems most
    likely to me. I've been reading that the Lenovo machines can have some
    peculiar interactions with kernel modules, so I'm now checking into
    that.

    On Tuesday, March 25th, 2025 at 6:51 PM, W. Pepperdine wrote:

    Debian+XFCE freezes randomly either just before, during, or a
    couple seconds after the login screen. It happens about a third the
    time, both on booting and on changing users. During a freeze, the
    screen displays but is not updated and the USB ports appear inactive.
    There is no mouse or keyboard input, not even from SysRq. The only
    thing to do is a hard shutdown with the power button.

    I first installed Trixie and had this problem and others.
    Downgraded to Bookworm and have just this problem left. The machine is
    a ThinkCentre M920q with i5-9600T, 8GB RAM, and UHD Graphics 630.

    Have already had some discussion of log output on Debian User
    Forums.

    Computer freezing because of
    LightDM?https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=162147

    <html>
    <head>
    <style type="text/css">
    body,p,td,div,span{
    font-size:13px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    };
    body p{
    margin:0px;
    }
    </style>
    </head>
    <body>W. Pepperdine,<br>
    <br><div>
    Apologies, but I am mostly out of ideas. Hopefully people with more knowledge than myself will assist.</div><div><br></div><div>I could not see any issues in the logs that you provided.<br></div>

    I do not think your issue is with LightDM.&nbsp;&nbsp;I still think it might be with hardware.<br>
    <div><div><br></div><div>Max suggested checking with journalctl which may help, but I am thinking that if the computer is freezing, then nothing
    can get written to the logs anyway, so searching logs may not help.</div><div>For example:<br></div># journalctl --priority=err --no-pager</div><div><br></div><div>If you can, I suggest installing Debian 12 KDE and see if all works or not.&nbsp; KDE does
    not use LightDM and instead uses SDDM so if your&nbsp;ThinkCentre M920q then locks up, the issue is not LightDM.&nbsp; If you can easily replace the disk drive in the&nbsp;ThinkCentre M920q with another disk drive, then you could put aside your existing
    drive so you do not destroy the data on it while doing this test. However if you have already reinstalled several times, you may not have any data you need to keep on your current disk drive?<br></div><br><div><br></div><div>When checking my logs, I
    found that one of my UDEV rules was still using SYSFS instead of ATTRS. For me, correcting this was easy as changing SYSFS to ATTRS.<br></div><div><br></div>
    # grep -i "SYSFS" /etc/udev/rules.d/*.rules<br><div><br></div><div>George.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

    On Thursday, 27-03-2025 at 18:34 W. Pepperdine wrote:<br>
    &gt; &gt; Here are outputs of a few queries on log entries<br>
    &gt; &gt; from one of my XFCE installations. How do they compare<br>
    &gt; &gt; with your logs? Can you see any reports on your<br>
    &gt; &gt; computer that could point to what is causing your issue?<br>
    &gt; After a system freeze, I rebooted to the desktop as root and collected these reports. Others looked at them but didn't see a cause for the freeze.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; /var/log/Xorg.0.log (<a href="http://paste.debian.net/1365570" target="_blank" class="normal-link">http://paste.debian.net/1365570</a>/)<br>
    &gt; /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old (<a href="http://paste.debian.net/1365571" target="_blank" class="normal-link">http://paste.debian.net/1365571</a>/)<br>
    &gt; /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log (<a href="http://paste.debian.net/1365572" target="_blank" class="normal-link">http://paste.debian.net/1365572</a>/)<br>
    &gt; /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log.old (<a href="http://paste.debian.net/1365573" target="_blank" class="normal-link">http://paste.debian.net/1365573</a>/)<br>
    &gt; dmesg (<a href="http://paste.debian.net/1365575" target="_blank" class="normal-link">http://paste.debian.net/1365575</a>/)<br>
    &gt; journalctl -b -p3 (<a href="http://paste.debian.net/1365578" target="_blank" class="normal-link">http://paste.debian.net/1365578</a>/)<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Any suggestion for what else to check?<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; I have three theories for the problem.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; 1. It's hardware. The problem is that it's a new machine, checks with other software seem OK, and the freezing occurs only during login/out.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; 2. It's LightDM. Since the freezing only happens around login/out, that seems to point to the display manager, but would a frozen DM take out the USB ports?<br>
    &gt; 3. It's the kernel configuration. At the moment, that seems most likely to me. I've been reading that the Lenovo machines can have some peculiar interactions with kernel modules, so I'm now checking into that.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; On Tuesday, March 25th, 2025 at 6:51 PM, W. Pepperdine &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; &gt; Debian+XFCE freezes randomly either just before, during, or a couple seconds after the login screen. It happens about a third the time, both on booting and on changing users. During a freeze, the screen displays but is not updated and the USB
    ports appear inactive. There is no mouse or keyboard input, not even from SysRq. The only thing to do is a hard shutdown with the power button.<br>
    &gt; &gt;<br>
    &gt; &gt; I first installed Trixie and had this problem and others. Downgraded to Bookworm and have just this problem left. The machine is a ThinkCentre M920q with i5-9600T, 8GB RAM, and UHD Graphics 630.<br>
    &gt; &gt;<br>
    &gt; &gt; Have already had some discussion of log output on Debian User Forums.<br>
    &gt; &gt;<br>
    &gt; &gt; Computer freezing because of LightDM?<a href="https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=162147" target="_blank" class="normal-link">https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=162147</a></body></html>

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  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 22:20:01 2025
    Max,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I do not fully understand "email threading", even after reading up on it. I don't use email threading, and I do not think my email client does either. Thanks for pointing the matter of "email threading" out to me. This will be some homework for me.

    I am annoyed at myself for my emotional reluctance to learn journald and my attachment to using the older ways of processing log files. I have been using grep on text file logs for many years, and see journald as adding unnecessary complexity to Linux,
    just as I do with systemd, but I cannot not live in the past, if I want to live in the present. Living in the present is not always easy, how do you "live" with an OS that wants to record your screen every five seconds? (rhetorical question).

    Thanks for pointing out that it is possible to run KDE while using LightDM. Searching the Internet indicates this does not seem to be preferred or even recommended. I wonder why you do this?

    I wonder if W. Pepperdine managed to get Debian working on the ThinkCentre M920q with i5-9600T, 8GB RAM, and UHD Graphics 630.

    [email protected] sure is getting busy, I am getting more emails coming in than I have time to read. I will try to keep my emails to a minimum.

    George.


    On Friday, 28-03-2025 at 14:14 Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 28/03/2025 05:13, George at Clug wrote:

    Max suggested checking with journalctl which may help, but I am thinking that if the computer is freezing, then nothing can get written to the
    logs anyway, so searching logs may not help.
    For example:
    # journalctl --priority=err --no-pager

    To be clear, I tried to suggest *no* filter (besides time window) to see last logged action. journalctl output contains dmesg messages and shows
    them in context. "--priority=err" is just better than "| grep -i error". This filter is still too strict for obscure issues.

    I hope that last logged *actions* may shed some light.

    I think, the journalctl command above should have other options, but I
    can not guess what you are trying to achieve.

    Before logging in, try to connect to the machine using ssh, preferably
    other ethernet, but you may try at least to do it from a smartphone and run

    sudo journalctl --follow

    There is a little chance to see some messages that can not reach the disk.

    If you can, I suggest installing Debian 12 KDE and see if all works or not.  KDE does not use LightDM and instead uses SDDM

    KDE and LightDM are independent component. I am writing from KDE session started namely from LightDM. I just do not like SDDM. So if you wish,
    you are free to install SDDM without full KDE or any other display
    manager. I am in doubts if it will help. Instead you may try to install xinit, login from VT and execute startx.

    RAM test might be a better option. E.g. download memtest86+ .efi file
    from its upstream site.

    P.S.
    George, there is no threading "In-Reply-To" and "References" headers in
    your message.



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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From W. Pepperdine@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 31 18:50:01 2025
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)