On Sat, Mar 01, 2025 at 06:05:41PM -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

You might want to add a bullet point addressing folks adding "SOLVED"
and similar to titles. Either allow it or forbid it. But write it down
so everyone knows what the policy is.

Hi Jeff,

I thought I had addressed it by suggesting that people change the
subject appropriately and mark changes of topic. I'll add it next
month.

I recommend the list forbid it. A mailing list is not a forum, like BB.

There is something to be said for it if you have a long thread
where the topic or subject is initially imprecise - a hypothetical
example follows:

"Can't configure network on Debian - please advise" might attract
twenty responses as we all try and guess what might have happened.

[SOLVED] "Can't configure network on Debian - please advise"

I'm feeling foolish - I forgot to plug in an Ethernet cable

Andy

would make it a lot easier to find answers on some of the longer
threads concerning problems. As ever, opinions may vary and i'd like
to know what others feel.

Jeff

On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 4:07 PM Andrew M.A. Cater <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

Editing and answering mailing list posts ========================================

* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

* It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
time to explain long threads.

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On Sun, Mar 02, 2025 at 12:18:36AM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

There is something to be said for it if you have a long thread
where the topic or subject is initially imprecise - a hypothetical
example follows:

"Can't configure network on Debian - please advise" might attract
twenty responses as we all try and guess what might have happened.

[SOLVED] "Can't configure network on Debian - please advise"

I'm feeling foolish - I forgot to plug in an Ethernet cable

Andy

would make it a lot easier to find answers on some of the longer
threads concerning problems. As ever, opinions may vary and i'd like
to know what others feel.

+1

--
Roberto C. S�nchez

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Hi,

On Sun, Mar 02, 2025 at 12:18:36AM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

[SOLVED] "Can't configure network on Debian - please advise"

would make it a lot easier to find answers on some of the longer
threads concerning problems. As ever, opinions may vary and i'd like
to know what others feel.

I used to agree with you until I was told that the gmail web interface completely separates any such message from the rest of its thread as
soon as the subject line changes. In some degree of disbelief I checked
this and found it to be true.

So what you are advocating is that users of the most popular email
interface in use on this list will potentially need to see a whole set
of mails about something and then — possibly much further down in their mailbox — see one mail with "SOLVED" prepended to it, completely divorced from the thread it relates to. That does not seem to be a useful user experience to me: The "SOLVED" message won't be anywhere near the rest
of the thread.

It does however help for the list's archives, since Debian's web archive
and that of every archive I've ever seen does a better job of threading
than gmail does.

Every time this comes up, some feel inclined to say that users of the
gmail web interface deserve everything they get for choosing to use such
a poorly-designed service, but you do not strike me as such a person.

After finding out just how badly gmail works I now reserve subject line
changes only for when the content of the email has drifted far enough
away from the original subject line so as to be about a totally
different thing. It cannot be used to draw attention to some nuance of
the original topic. Thanks, Google.

Thanks,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail.
— John Levine

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This kind of information
--------------------------------
popos/pts/4 bash ~ 08:54 0$diff -b debfaq--2025-0{2,3}-01
88c88,90
< world. Off-topic arguments also have a habit of derailing useful discussion.
---

world.

Off-topic arguments also have a habit of derailing useful discussion.

153a156

popos/pts/4 bash ~ 08:55 1$
--------------------------------
would be very useful to readers who want to stay up-to-date.

* Andrew M.A. Cater <[email protected]> [25-03/01=Sat 18:01 +0000]:

Debian-user is a mailing list provided for [...]

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David <[email protected]> writes:

It would assist everyone to follow changes to this "Monthly FAQ"
document if it can be hosted somewhere that provides diffs, such
as salsa.debian.org, or wiki.debian.org.

I don't see a problem with just posting the diffs. Preferably in unified format.

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This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
On 2025-03-04 at 03:24, Anssi Saari wrote:

David <[email protected]> writes:

It would assist everyone to follow changes to this "Monthly FAQ"
document if it can be hosted somewhere that provides diffs, such as
salsa.debian.org, or wiki.debian.org.

I don't see a problem with just posting the diffs. Preferably in
unified format.

Speaking as the person whose request originally prompted the "last
modified" information to be added:

* My original intent on that was to have it in the *body* of the
message, near the top, not in the Subject line. (Though I don't actively
object to having it in the Subject line, either.)

* I would find it helpful to also have, not *diffs*, but *a brief, changelog-style list of What's New*, at the top of the FAQ for any
edition in which it's changed from the previous edition. (I think I may
have suggested that, too, but as a not-necessary nice-to-have - which
would be part of why I haven't followed up to suggest it further since
then.)

I wouldn't necessarily object to diffs, of course, but I don't really
expect that there will turn out to be a practicable way to provide them
that won't be either A: awkward or clunky to access from the recipient's perspective, or B: non-negligibly more trouble to set up and provide
from the poster's perspective, if not both.

(B would make it less worth the while for the person posting the FAQ to
bother with doing this at all - which is *another* part of the reason
why I haven't followed up to suggest the up-front "What's New" summary
list, since that would have the same problem to a different degree.)

--
The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw


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David <[email protected]> writes:

Given that this infrastructure exists and is being used by most people involved with producing Debian, it surprises me to hear talk of posting
diffs to the mailing list, which requires too much effort by both writers
and readers IMHO.

Too much effort? I don't understand. Surely the diffs can just as well
be automatically posted to the list when the FAQ is checked in? I don't
mind if the FAQ has a link to its latest diffs on the top
either. Assuming that isn't "too much effort" again.

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On Tue, Apr 01, 2025 at 06:17:38PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

I see the changing of title or subject to add things like "SOLVED" is
not included in the FAQ.

Can we infer it is frowned upon or unwanted?

Good evening Jeffrey,

No, I don't think you can.

Off-topic arguments also have a habit of derailing useful discussion.

Editing and answering mailing list posts ========================================

* It is helpful to write meaningful subject lines. If you change subject
or emphasis in mid-thread, please change the subject line on your email
accordingly so that this can be clearly seen.

For example: New question [WAS Old topic]

I think this covers it - as does the prior discussion on this list

* It may also be useful for someone to post a summary email from time to
time to explain long threads.

This might also be a good indicator that a [SOLVED] Problem ABC would
make a good final entry in a long thread.

* Clear replies and a short mailing list thread are much easier to
read and follow than long threads.

I can't see what I want here - help me! =======================================

* It is often useful to look through the archives to see whether the issue
you wish to raise or a similar issue has been raised before by someone
else. The top level link to the archives of this list is at
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ organised by year, then month.

There are several instances in the archives where [SOLVED] has been used.

* Although there are only twenty or thirty regular contributors, there may
be a couple of thousand readers in the background. Nobody is
a mind reader, nobody can sit beside you. Please help by providing
useful details if asked, especially which version of Debian you are
running.

Details of solutions might always be useful

I'm not using Debian but ...
============================

* Strictly, discussions of other distributions are off-topic here.
Please note: advice on Linux distributions other than Debian will be
only our best guess - other distributions may do things very differently.

[SOLVED] Use Debian :)

You have, however, made me realise that the lines in the FAQ may be too
long once quoted.

All the very best, as ever,

Andrew Cater
([email protected])

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