• How to install a browser (epiphany) without affecting mailcap etc.?

    From Chris Green@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 09:20:01 2025
    I use vivaldi as my my web browser and I have it set as the default
    application for everything web related. In particular it get's used
    to open web links when you use the context menu to open a web link in
    a text file.

    I want to install another browser (epiphany) as a backup/testing
    browser when I get the occasional problem viewing web pages with
    vivaldi. Using epiphany I can check if there's more likely something
    wrong with the web page or there's actually an issue with vivaldi.

    However, when I install epiphany it takes over every single thing that
    web browsers can do which is very frustrating, I only want to run it
    explicitly for testing. Is there any way to prevent the install
    changing all the mailcap and mime settings etc.?

    (I've got my vivaldi default settings back by purging epiphany but
    that's a bit extreme!)

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Mon Feb 10 10:30:02 2025
    Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

    However, when I install epiphany it takes over every single thing that
    web browsers can do which is very frustrating, I only want to run it explicitly for testing. Is there any way to prevent the install
    changing all the mailcap and mime settings etc.?

    What I've done is configure "everything" (in my case that means urxvt,
    Konsole, Emacs, Thunderbird and not much else) to use x-www-browser and
    then I use update-alternatives to configure what that means. Firefox in
    my case.

    I guess this can still work when using a non-Debian browser like
    Vivaldi, maybe some extra work is needed to make update-alternatives
    aware of Vivaldi, I don't really know.

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Mon Feb 10 14:00:01 2025
    Anssi Saari <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

    However, when I install epiphany it takes over every single thing that
    web browsers can do which is very frustrating, I only want to run it explicitly for testing. Is there any way to prevent the install
    changing all the mailcap and mime settings etc.?

    What I've done is configure "everything" (in my case that means urxvt, Konsole, Emacs, Thunderbird and not much else) to use x-www-browser and
    then I use update-alternatives to configure what that means. Firefox in
    my case.

    I had x-www-browser set to vivaldi but web links still got opened in
    epiphany, I tried changing just about every setting I could find for a
    browser to vivaldi but I still got epiphany.


    I guess this can still work when using a non-Debian browser like
    Vivaldi, maybe some extra work is needed to make update-alternatives
    aware of Vivaldi, I don't really know.

    No, it's aware of vivaldi, with epiphany removed now I see:-

    chris$ update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
    There are 2 choices for the alternative x-www-browser (providing /usr/bin/x-www-browser).

    Selection Path Priority Status
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    * 0 /usr/bin/vivaldi-stable 200 auto mode
    1 /usr/bin/hv3 10 manual mode
    2 /usr/bin/vivaldi-stable 200 manual mode

    Installing epiphany just added it as a choice but left vivaldi as the configured browser, but still epiphany grabbed everything.


    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Mon Feb 10 14:20:01 2025
    On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 12:45:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    I had x-www-browser set to vivaldi but web links still got opened in epiphany, I tried changing just about every setting I could find for a browser to vivaldi but I still got epiphany.

    There isn't a single interface for defining what you mean by a "default
    web browser". Each application does this however its authors saw fit
    to implement.

    Invoking /usr/bin/x-www-browser is one way, and setting that link will
    work for the apps that implement this choice.

    Some apps use XDG's way, which is described at <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41172692/xdg-open-does-not-open-the-default-browser#comments-link-41172692>.

    Others may use MIME, in which case you would configure some file
    or other. It used to be ~/.mailcap but apparently XDG is trying to
    move this to ~/.config/mimeapps.list (according to <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57667116/how-do-i-set-the-default-browser-for-xdg-open-on-centos-7-if-xdg-settings-has-no#comments-link-57667116>).

    Still other applications may respect an environment variable, such
    as $BROWSER, or they may only have their own unique configuration
    for it.

    Welcome to Unix/Linux.

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Mon Feb 10 16:50:02 2025
    Greg Wooledge <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 12:45:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    I had x-www-browser set to vivaldi but web links still got opened in epiphany, I tried changing just about every setting I could find for a browser to vivaldi but I still got epiphany.

    There isn't a single interface for defining what you mean by a "default
    web browser". Each application does this however its authors saw fit
    to implement.

    Yes, I'm well aware of that, there are **lots** of places where
    'default browser' gets set. I've tried all the ones I know about and
    a few more I learnt as I went along.


    Invoking /usr/bin/x-www-browser is one way, and setting that link will
    work for the apps that implement this choice.

    Some apps use XDG's way, which is described at <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41172692/xdg-open-does-not-open-the-default-browser#comments-link-41172692>.


    Others may use MIME, in which case you would configure some file
    or other. It used to be ~/.mailcap but apparently XDG is trying to
    move this to ~/.config/mimeapps.list (according to <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57667116/how-do-i-set-the-default-browser-for-xdg-open-on-centos-7-if-xdg-settings-has-no#comments-link-57667116>).

    Yes, I **think** that may be what's doing it for me.


    Still other applications may respect an environment variable, such
    as $BROWSER, or they may only have their own unique configuration
    for it.

    Welcome to Unix/Linux.

    I've been here for 20 years or more! :-)


    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or another
    browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather
    than having to try and unset all the changes it has made.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From songbird@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Mon Feb 10 23:40:01 2025
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or another
    browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather
    than having to try and unset all the changes it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.


    songbird

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to songbird on Tue Feb 11 08:50:01 2025
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or another browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather
    than having to try and unset all the changes it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends to be
    "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany",
    having to log out and log in to another user to do this rather defeats
    the object.

    It might also take me down a never ending trail of 'is it the environment/settings or is it the program?'. :-)

    I guess some sort of chrooted environment to install it (epiphany) in
    might work (though still gives the environment/settings question).

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From songbird@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Feb 11 13:40:01 2025
    Chris Green wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or another
    browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather
    than having to try and unset all the changes it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends to be
    "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany",
    having to log out and log in to another user to do this rather defeats
    the object.

    It might also take me down a never ending trail of 'is it the environment/settings or is it the program?'. :-)

    I guess some sort of chrooted environment to install it (epiphany) in
    might work (though still gives the environment/settings question).

    true. i've not done those sorts of things in a long time since
    i'm not having issues like that (i tend to keep things as simple
    as possible) and most of my playing around these days are within
    virtual environments of python. my bash .bashrc sets things
    up based upon which directories i'm in so all needed environment
    variables are managed that way. all my desktops are set up with
    however copies of terminals i want and where each is is saved (but
    i need to keep a back up of that because once in a while something
    clobbers those).


    songbird

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Feb 11 17:40:02 2025
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or
    another browser) **not** to try and become the default for
    everything, rather than having to try and unset all the changes
    it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends to be
    "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany",
    having to log out and log in to another user to do this rather defeats
    the object.

    I simply have a terminal already running as another user (I start a
    terminal and then su - another_user) so I just have to type the browser
    name if I want to use it. Or use up-arrow to access the browser
    history. For me that seems to be a tolerable level of effort.

    It might also take me down a never ending trail of 'is it the environment/settings or is it the program?'. :-)

    I guess some sort of chrooted environment to install it (epiphany) in
    might work (though still gives the environment/settings question).

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Feb 11 21:50:01 2025
    [email protected] wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or
    another browser) **not** to try and become the default for
    everything, rather than having to try and unset all the changes
    it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends to be
    "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany", having to log out and log in to another user to do this rather defeats
    the object.

    I simply have a terminal already running as another user (I start a
    terminal and then su - another_user) so I just have to type the browser
    name if I want to use it. Or use up-arrow to access the browser
    history. For me that seems to be a tolerable level of effort.

    How does that help? The other user will have all the same default
    browser settings that you do. You can't install something for use by
    one user and not another user, at least not using apt you can't.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 06:30:01 2025
    On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 08:21:02PM +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or
    another browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather than having to try and unset all the changes
    it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends to be "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany", having to log out and log in to another user to do this rather defeats the object.

    I simply have a terminal already running as another user (I start a terminal and then su - another_user) so I just have to type the browser name if I want to use it. Or use up-arrow to access the browser
    history. For me that seems to be a tolerable level of effort.

    How does that help? The other user will have all the same default
    browser settings that you do. You can't install something for use by
    one user and not another user, at least not using apt you can't.

    Those DE-ish (and related) configuration things typically happen per-user (apart from Debian's alternatives mechanism, but if I have been following along, that one has been discarded already in the discussion).

    Just imagine setting a default browser for yourself and forcing all the
    other users into it...

    Cheers
    --
    t

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Feb 12 08:50:01 2025
    [email protected] wrote:
    [-- text/plain, encoding quoted-printable, charset: utf-8, 39 lines --]

    On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 08:21:02PM +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or
    another browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather than having to try and unset all the changes
    it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends to be "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany", having to log out and log in to another user to do this rather defeats the object.

    I simply have a terminal already running as another user (I start a terminal and then su - another_user) so I just have to type the browser name if I want to use it. Or use up-arrow to access the browser
    history. For me that seems to be a tolerable level of effort.

    How does that help? The other user will have all the same default
    browser settings that you do. You can't install something for use by
    one user and not another user, at least not using apt you can't.

    Those DE-ish (and related) configuration things typically happen per-user (apart from Debian's alternatives mechanism, but if I have been following along, that one has been discarded already in the discussion).

    Just imagine setting a default browser for yourself and forcing all the
    other users into it...

    Er, but that's the whole problem!!! I installed epiphany (using apt)
    and it **did** force all 'the other users' (including me) to use it.
    You have described the problem in a nutshell! :-)

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 10:00:01 2025
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or
    another browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather than having to try and unset all the
    changes it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends
    to be "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany", having to log out and log in to another user to do
    this rather defeats the object.

    I simply have a terminal already running as another user (I start a terminal and then su - another_user) so I just have to type the
    browser name if I want to use it. Or use up-arrow to access the
    browser history. For me that seems to be a tolerable level of
    effort.
    How does that help? The other user will have all the same default
    browser settings that you do. You can't install something for use by
    one user and not another user, at least not using apt you can't.

    I was responding to your point immediately before what I wrote, and
    what it avoids is having to log out and log in again as a different
    user. The other user does NOT have the same settings as me. They have
    their own set of plugins and settings as Tomas has pointed out. You
    very much can install something for one user and not for another in a
    browser.

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 10:10:01 2025
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 07:24:28AM +0000, Chris Green wrote:

    [...]

    Er, but that's the whole problem!!! I installed epiphany (using apt)
    and it **did** force all 'the other users' (including me) to use it.
    You have described the problem in a nutshell! :-)

    Then, it seems that it is alternatives.

    What does

    update-alternatives --display x-www-browser

    say?

    Cheers
    --
    t

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  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 10:40:01 2025
    Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

    Installing epiphany just added it as a choice but left vivaldi as the configured browser, but still epiphany grabbed everything.

    Have you considered you may get better information if you actually
    define this "everything"? For me it's the small handful of apps I
    mentioned and possibly a few more, like PDF viewers. Then again, I
    probably don't remember the settings I've used for each program unless I
    made notes and can find them again...

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Feb 12 11:20:01 2025
    [email protected] wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    songbird <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green wrote:
    ...
    It would be much easier if I could simply tell epiphany (or
    another browser) **not** to try and become the default for everything, rather than having to try and unset all the
    changes it has made.

    Chris, for something like testing i would just set up
    another user.

    I guess that's a possible way. However my use of epiphany tends
    to be "oh, this web page doesn't work in vivaldi, I'll try it in epiphany", having to log out and log in to another user to do
    this rather defeats the object.

    I simply have a terminal already running as another user (I start a terminal and then su - another_user) so I just have to type the
    browser name if I want to use it. Or use up-arrow to access the
    browser history. For me that seems to be a tolerable level of
    effort.
    How does that help? The other user will have all the same default
    browser settings that you do. You can't install something for use by
    one user and not another user, at least not using apt you can't.

    I was responding to your point immediately before what I wrote, and
    what it avoids is having to log out and log in again as a different
    user. The other user does NOT have the same settings as me. They have
    their own set of plugins and settings as Tomas has pointed out. You
    very much can install something for one user and not for another in a browser.

    How? If I install epiphany using alt then it sets itself as the
    default browser in just about every location I know about and some
    that I don't. These settings apply to all users on the system.

    You don't install things 'for a user'.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 12 11:30:01 2025
    Chris Green (12025-02-12):
    I'm just wondering if a way round the issue may be to unistall
    vivaldi, then install epiphany, then re-install vivaldi. It might be
    that just doing 'apt reinstall vivaldi' will get me back to where I
    want to be.

    That might be a way, but it would be less efficient than installing
    Windows or Macos instead of Linux.

    If you want a Linux way to solve the issue: first, read the
    documentation of xfce-terminal to see how it decides which web browser
    to run; then read the documentation of that mechanism to see how to
    configure it.

    Regards,

    --
    Nicolas George

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Wed Feb 12 11:30:02 2025
    Anssi Saari <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

    Installing epiphany just added it as a choice but left vivaldi as the configured browser, but still epiphany grabbed everything.

    Have you considered you may get better information if you actually
    define this "everything"? For me it's the small handful of apps I
    mentioned and possibly a few more, like PDF viewers. Then again, I
    probably don't remember the settings I've used for each program unless I
    made notes and can find them again...

    The specific thing that bit me when I installed epiphany was clicking
    on a web link in a terminal (xfce4-terminal) window. Instead of
    opening the link in the already running vivaldi, in another workspace
    (which is the way I like it) it fired up epiphany and splatted it on
    top of the text I was looking at.

    I'm just wondering if a way round the issue may be to unistall
    vivaldi, then install epiphany, then re-install vivaldi. It might be
    that just doing 'apt reinstall vivaldi' will get me back to where I
    want to be.

    When I get home tomorrow I'll try it, I'm a bit on the move at the
    moment.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 13:20:01 2025
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 10:02:13 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:
    The other user does NOT have the same settings as me. They have
    their own set of plugins and settings as Tomas has pointed out. You
    very much can install something for one user and not for another in a browser.

    How? If I install epiphany using alt then it sets itself as the
    default browser in just about every location I know about and some
    that I don't. These settings apply to all users on the system.

    Installing a browser is very different from installing something IN a
    browser.

    If you have two users A and B, and you install a new web browser (as
    root), and if for some reason this new web browser becomes the new x-www-browser alternative, then some applications may select it, which
    is one possible root cause for the problem that Chris Green is describing.

    It's also possible that some applications may select it as a default
    using their own individual heuristics, without going through the
    x-www-browser symbolic link. I can easily imagine some GUI app has a hard-coded list of browser names that it looks for, and it simply uses
    the first one that it finds while traversing that list.

    Now, suppose user A installs a new add-on in Firefox. This only goes
    into their own home directory, and will not be seen by user B in Firefox.
    This is what debian-user@howorth is describing.

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 13:30:01 2025
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 10:06:53 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    The specific thing that bit me when I installed epiphany was clicking
    on a web link in a terminal (xfce4-terminal) window. Instead of
    opening the link in the already running vivaldi, in another workspace
    (which is the way I like it) it fired up epiphany and splatted it on
    top of the text I was looking at.

    When I google this, I get a bunch of stupidity ("It uses your system
    default!") but then it goes on to give a few answer links that look
    promising.

    https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/638182/xfce4-terminal-change-default-browser
    https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=6899 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=191547

    I hope one of these helps.

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Wed Feb 12 13:40:01 2025
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 07:18:23AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 10:06:53 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    The specific thing that bit me when I installed epiphany was clicking
    on a web link in a terminal (xfce4-terminal) window. Instead of
    opening the link in the already running vivaldi, in another workspace (which is the way I like it) it fired up epiphany and splatted it on
    top of the text I was looking at.

    When I google this, I get a bunch of stupidity ("It uses your system default!") but then it goes on to give a few answer links that look promising.

    I'd look at update-alternatives, but...

    This one is system wide, and barring some systemd shenanigans, it
    should be the only one. Note that there are two browser entries there: www-browser and x-www-browser (from memory, so better look into /etc/alternatives).

    Cheers
    --
    t

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Nicolas George on Wed Feb 12 14:30:02 2025
    Nicolas George <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green (12025-02-12):
    I'm just wondering if a way round the issue may be to unistall
    vivaldi, then install epiphany, then re-install vivaldi. It might be
    that just doing 'apt reinstall vivaldi' will get me back to where I
    want to be.

    That might be a way, but it would be less efficient than installing
    Windows or Macos instead of Linux.

    If you want a Linux way to solve the issue: first, read the
    documentation of xfce-terminal to see how it decides which web browser
    to run; then read the documentation of that mechanism to see how to
    configure it.

    I have looked in the xfce4-terminal documentation, to no avail. I
    will however ask on the xcfe4 mailing list, they're usually quite
    helpful there.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Wed Feb 12 14:20:01 2025
    Greg Wooledge <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 10:02:13 +0000, Chris Green wrote:
    [email protected] wrote:
    The other user does NOT have the same settings as me. They have
    their own set of plugins and settings as Tomas has pointed out. You
    very much can install something for one user and not for another in a browser.

    How? If I install epiphany using alt then it sets itself as the
    default browser in just about every location I know about and some
    that I don't. These settings apply to all users on the system.

    Installing a browser is very different from installing something IN a browser.

    If you have two users A and B, and you install a new web browser (as
    root), and if for some reason this new web browser becomes the new x-www-browser alternative, then some applications may select it, which
    is one possible root cause for the problem that Chris Green is describing.

    It's also possible that some applications may select it as a default
    using their own individual heuristics, without going through the x-www-browser symbolic link. I can easily imagine some GUI app has a hard-coded list of browser names that it looks for, and it simply uses
    the first one that it finds while traversing that list.

    Now, suppose user A installs a new add-on in Firefox. This only goes
    into their own home directory, and will not be seen by user B in Firefox. This is what debian-user@howorth is describing.

    Yes, I agree, but I'm not installing new add-ons in an existing
    browser or anything like that. I'm simply (as root) installing
    epiphany and it takes over all web browser functions from vivaldi.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 12 15:00:02 2025
    Max Nikulin (HE12025-02-12):
    I would not be surprised if it is not explicitly documented.

    At worst, the source code is the documentation.

    Regards,

    --
    Nicolas George

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Greg on Wed Feb 12 16:50:01 2025
    Greg <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-02-12, Nicolas George <[email protected]> wrote:
    Max Nikulin (HE12025-02-12):
    I would not be surprised if it is not explicitly documented.

    At worst, the source code is the documentation.

    I think Chris had the right idea. Install Epiphany first, and then
    Vivaldi, instead of the other way around.

    Problem solved.

    That said, I believe the three-browser problem is not generally solvable.

    :-)

    Very true! I'm not even sure the one browser problem has a solution!

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Dan Ritter@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Feb 12 17:10:01 2025
    Chris Green wrote:
    Anssi Saari <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

    Installing epiphany just added it as a choice but left vivaldi as the configured browser, but still epiphany grabbed everything.

    Have you considered you may get better information if you actually
    define this "everything"? For me it's the small handful of apps I
    mentioned and possibly a few more, like PDF viewers. Then again, I
    probably don't remember the settings I've used for each program unless I made notes and can find them again...

    The specific thing that bit me when I installed epiphany was clicking
    on a web link in a terminal (xfce4-terminal) window. Instead of
    opening the link in the already running vivaldi, in another workspace
    (which is the way I like it) it fired up epiphany and splatted it on
    top of the text I was looking at.

    I fired up XFCE4 on Stable, went to the settings manager, and
    noted the following options:

    Default Applications => Internet, Web Browser. Currently set on
    "Debian Sensible Browser". I set it to firefox.

    XFCE Terminal Settings => nothing browser related.

    Alternatives => x-www-browser. I set it to firefox.

    That last one appears to be a GUI interface to the alternatives
    system, and can be installed with apt as galternatives.

    -dsr-

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  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 12 18:10:01 2025
    Greg (HE12025-02-12):
    Simply reversing the installation order of the two browsers seems the
    most direct and easiest solution.

    It might achieve the result. A solution…

    What will the OP do if they install another browser to try something and
    it becomes the default one? Uninstall them all and reinstall them
    successively in the six possible orders until the desired result has
    been achieved?

    Or if they realize the order is broken again at each upgrade?

    Fiddling randomly with installed things until it starts working as
    wanted might do the trick one, but it should never be called a solution.
    Those who call it a solution should let the LLMs speak.

    The only way to achieve a reliable result is to understand what is going
    on. I am flabbergasted that so many people on this list do not start
    with that. This is probably the last contribution from me in this
    thread.

    Regards,

    --
    Nicolas George

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  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 12 18:20:01 2025
    Greg (HE12025-02-12):
    What is going on? You suggested examining the source code.

    No, I suggested reading the documentation. Others have suggested other
    avenues that lead to understanding. These are good answers. The
    suggestions to uninstall and randomly fiddle with the order are
    polluting the good answers.

    --
    Nicolas George

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to David Wright on Wed Feb 12 19:30:01 2025
    On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 10:34:32 -0600, David Wright wrote:
    urlCommand "sensible-browser '%s'"

    hobbit:~$ type -a sensible-browser
    sensible-browser is /usr/bin/sensible-browser
    sensible-browser is /bin/sensible-browser
    hobbit:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/sensible-browser
    -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1290 Jan 14 2023 /usr/bin/sensible-browser*

    ... it's NOT a symlink to /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser??

    hobbit:~$ dpkg -S /usr/bin/sensible-browser
    sensible-utils: /usr/bin/sensible-browser
    Package: sensible-utils
    Status: install ok installed
    Priority: important
    [...]
    Version: 0.0.17+nmu1

    Good lord, it's ANOTHER one. Now Debian has *two* completely separate
    ways to specify a default application for a role. Wow.

    (And that's on top of all the other ways that applications have chosen
    for themselves.)

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Thu Feb 13 03:30:01 2025
    On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 08:56:47 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 13/02/2025 01:26, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    Now Debian has*two* completely separate
    ways to specify a default application for a role.

    I believed there are at least 4 ways (besides settings specific to
    particular applications)
    - *browser alternatives
    - BROWSER environment
    - mailcap for text/html
    - XDG configuration

    Yes, but mailcap and XDG aren't Debian specific. Alternatives and
    the $BROWSER variable (which is what the sensible-browser shell script
    uses) are Debian specific.

    For Debian to introduce *two* such things really surprised me. Maybe
    I shouldn't be shocked, though. Debian developers are multiple herds
    worth of cats.

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Thu Feb 13 08:20:01 2025
    Max Nikulin <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/02/2025 01:26, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    Now Debian has*two* completely separate
    ways to specify a default application for a role.

    I believed there are at least 4 ways (besides settings specific to
    particular applications)
    - *browser alternatives
    - BROWSER environment
    - mailcap for text/html
    - XDG configuration

    sensible-browser, "open", and xdg-open just use some of these options.

    There's also all the MIME confguration.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Greg on Thu Feb 13 18:50:01 2025
    Greg <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-02-13, Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    Max Nikulin <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/02/2025 01:26, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    Now Debian has*two* completely separate
    ways to specify a default application for a role.

    I believed there are at least 4 ways (besides settings specific to
    particular applications)
    - *browser alternatives
    - BROWSER environment
    - mailcap for text/html
    - XDG configuration

    sensible-browser, "open", and xdg-open just use some of these options.

    There's also all the MIME confguration.

    Maybe you can see exactly what's going on by examining Epiphany's post install
    script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/.

    For firefox-esr, it's

    #!/bin/sh -e

    if [ "$1" = "configure" ] || [ "$1" = "abort-upgrade" ] ; then
    update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/x-www-browser \
    x-www-browser /usr/bin/firefox-esr 70 \
    --slave /usr/share/man/man1/x-www-browser.1.gz \
    x-www-browser.1.gz /usr/share/man/man1/firefox-esr.1.gz
    update-alternatives --remove mozilla /usr/bin/firefox-esr
    update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/gnome-www-browser \
    gnome-www-browser /usr/bin/firefox-esr 70 \
    --slave /usr/share/man/man1/gnome-www-browser.1.gz \
    gnome-www-browser.1.gz /usr/share/man/man1/firefox-esr.1.gz
    fi

    if [ "$1" = "configure" ] ; then
    rm -rf /usr/lib/firefox-esr/updates
    fi

    Good luck.

    Yes, I was considering doing that. It's actually very simple:-

    #!/bin/sh
    set -e

    PRIO=85
    for alt in x-www-browser gnome-www-browser; do
    update-alternatives --install \
    /usr/bin/$alt $alt /usr/bin/epiphany-browser $PRIO \
    --slave /usr/share/man/man1/$alt.1.gz $alt.1.gz /usr/share/man/man1/epiphany-browser.1.gz
    done

    It felt like it had done much more than that though. If all I have to do
    is undo the changes to alternatives then it's not too difficult. I'm back
    home now after being away so I should have some time to have a go agt it.


    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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