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Dell Latitude 5400 + plasma - keyboard?

From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 5 13:00:01 2025

Dear list,

is anyone by chance using a Dell Latitude 5400 with Plasma?

I am looking for the keyboard setting for Debian wuith this hardware. The problem is, the Function-keys are not working.

Not working means: The second level do not work like "volume higher/lower" "brightness" and so on.

The hotkey (which switches between both levels) Func+ESC is working.

The setting for keyboard is set to "Dell Latitude".

Some weired thing:

In console and in Plasma the Brightness can not be adjusted, but in XFCE it can. However, I could not get, which keyboard setting XFCE is using, does pne know?

In Debian WIKI I found no hints for the keyboard, and also no clues in other lists.

So I have the hope, someone by chance might own the same notebook or does
more.

Thank you for any hints.

Best

Hans

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 5 13:30:01 2025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Some checks showed, that obviously the events are read correct, if I see this corect. Please
see:

--------------------
$ acpi_listen

button/mute MUTE 00000080 00000000 K
button/volumedown VOLDN 00000080 00000000 K
button/volumeup VOLUP 00000080 00000000 K
9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000
button/f20 F20 00000080 00000000 K
9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000
video/brightnessdown BRTDN 00000087 00000000
9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000
9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000
video/brightnessup BRTUP 00000086 00000000

--------------------
Looks like they are not interpreted somehow.....

Hans

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>Some checks showed, that obviously the events are read correct, if I see this corect. Please see:
 <hr />
$ acpi_listen  
button/mute MUTE 00000080 00000000 K button/volumedown VOLDN 00000080 00000000 K button/volumeup VOLUP 00000080 00000000 K 9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000 
button/f20 F20 00000080 00000000 K 9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000 video/brightnessdown BRTDN 00000087 00000000 9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000 9DBB5994-A997- 000000d0 00000000 video/brightnessup BRTUP 00000086 00000000
  
<hr />
Looks like they are not interpreted somehow.....
 Hans
</body>
</html>

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 5 17:40:02 2025

Hi Cindy,

I am aware of the settings in BIOS. That is not the problem. As I already mentioned, the change of primary and secondary function is working.

(I called this "level" change, maybe it was not teh correct expresion).

No, thwe problem is, the windowmanager or the system itself does not recognize the code or suppresses it somehow.

Do not know, what really happens.

Hans

Hi.. In case you haven't found it yet, some laptops (not all) have a
BIOS setting that changes that function. Some of those laptops that do
have that setting don't always word it in a way that intuitively
indicates that is what you're changing and how you're changing it.

If that setting exists, it might take changing it a couple times to hit
the combination one wants. My quick Internet search brought up this
blurb that fits my memory recall for the last time I changed my own:

+++ BEGIN INTERNET SEARCH RESULT +++

To change the Fn function on a Dell Latitude 5400, navigate to the BIOS
by pressing "F2" during startup, then go to "POST Behavior" > "Fn Lock Options" where you can enable or disable the Fn Lock feature, which will toggle the primary behavior of the function keys using the "Fn + Esc" combination.
Key points:

Access BIOS: Press "F2" when the Dell logo appears during boot.

Navigation: Go to "POST Behavior" > "Fn Lock Options".
Toggle Fn Lock: Enable or disable the "Fn Lock" option to change the
default function key behavior.

+++ ENG INTERNET SEARCH RESULT +++

DISCLAIMER: Those unsolicited AI answers sometimes unintentionally warp
their directions. I'm just hoping that blurb hits close enough to the
right path to help others find that setting.

Best wishes...

Cindy :)

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From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Hans on Thu Feb 6 09:50:01 2025

Hans <[email protected]> writes:

In console and in Plasma the Brightness can not be adjusted, but in XFCE it can. However, I could not get, which keyboard setting XFCE is using, does pne know?

So is this a difference between Wayland and X then? You run Plasma in
Wayland and XFCE in X since it only runs in X?

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 6 10:00:01 2025

No, I am running Plasma in X as well as XFCE. I am no friend of Wayland, so I avoiding it.

Best

Hans

So is this a difference between Wayland and X then? You run Plasma in
Wayland and XFCE in X since it only runs in X?

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 6 10:20:01 2025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

There is indeed a difference.

Thisis the output for Plasma:
--------------------
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include "evdev+aliases(qwertz)" };
xkb_types { include "complete" };
xkb_compat { include "complete" };
xkb_symbols { include "pc+de+inet(evdev)+compose(lwin)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)"
};
xkb_geometry { include "dell(latitude)" };

--------------------
And here it is for XFCE:
--------------------
xkb_keymap {
xkb_keycodes { include "evdev+aliases(qwertz)" };
xkb_types { include "complete" };
xkb_compat { include "complete" };
xkb_symbols { include "pc+de+inet(evdev)+compose(lwin)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)"
};
xkb_geometry { include "pc(pc104)" };
};
--------------------

As we can see, in Plasma it is dell, and in XFCE it is pc104. However, due to this, I tried setting
the keyboard to "pc104" in Plasma, but the issue stays. The function keys are not recognized as
described in my first mail.

Maye it is a bug in Plasma? Who knows....

Hans

On 05/02/2025 18:57, Hans wrote:

In console and in Plasma the Brightness can not be adjusted, but in XFCE
it
can. However, I could not get, which keyboard setting XFCE is using, does pne know?

Save output of the following command executed in XFCE and KDE

setxkbmap -print

and compare it to settings from /etc/default/keyboard. What symbols are reported by "xev" in both DE when you press Fn keys?

Perhaps you can just uncheck "configure layouts" for keyboard in KDE
system settings.

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>There is indeed a difference.
 Thisis the output for Plasma:
<hr />
xkb_keymap { xkb_keycodes { include
"evdev+aliases(qwertz)" }; xkb_types { include "complete" }; xkb_compat { include "complete" }; xkb_symbols { include "pc+
de+inet(evdev)+compose(lwin)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)" }; xkb_geometry { include "dell(latitude)" }; 
<hr />
And here it is for XFCE:
<hr />
xkb_keymap { xkb_keycodes { include "evdev+aliases(qwertz)" }; �
� xkb_types { include "complete" }; xkb_compat { include "complete" }; xkb_symbols { include "pc+de+inet(evdev)+compose(lwin)+terminate(ctrl_
alt_bksp)" }; xkb_geometry { include "pc(pc104)" }; };
<hr />
 As we can see, in Plasma it is dell, and in XFCE it is pc104. However, due to this, I tried setting the keyboard to "pc104" in Plasma, but the issue stays. The function
keys are not recognized as described in my first mail.
 Maye it is a bug in Plasma? Who knows....
 Hans
  
 > On 05/02/2025 18:57, Hans wrote:
> > In console and in Plasma the Brightness can not be adjusted, but in XFCE
> > it
> > can. However, I could not get, which keyboard setting XFCE is using, does
> > pne know?
> > Save output of the following command executed in XFCE and KDE
> >      setxkbmap -print
> > and compare it to settings from /etc/default/keyboard. What symbols are
> reported by "xev" in both DE when you press Fn keys?
> > Perhaps you can just uncheck "configure layouts" for keyboard in KDE
> system settings.
 </body>
</html>

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From Karl Vogel@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 08:40:02 2025

On Wed 05 Feb 2025 at 11:38:00 (-0500), Hans wrote:

No, thwe problem is, the windowmanager or the system itself does not recognize the code or suppresses it somehow.

Are you running under X or Wayland? If X, try running "xev" and pressing
the keys to see what the system thinks you're doing. If Wayland, "xev"
might work; you could also try "wshowkeys".

--
Karl Vogel I don't speak for anyone but myself

I got a dog and named him 'Stay'. Now, I go 'Come here, Stay!' After a
while the dog went insane and wouldn't move at all. --Steven Wright

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From Russell S.@21:1/5 to Hans on Sat Feb 8 20:20:01 2025

Hans <[email protected]> writes:

No, I am running Plasma in X as well as XFCE. I am no friend of Wayland, so I avoiding it.

Best

Hans

So is this a difference between Wayland and X then? You run Plasma in
Wayland and XFCE in X since it only runs in X?

Have you tried just going in the Shortcut settings in Plasma and
manually assigning the keys that you want? That way, it doesn't really
matter what Plasma thinks the keys are because you are directly entering
them in the settings dialog.

Settings -> Shortcuts -> Shortcuts -> Power Management

--
this is my clever sig.

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 10:30:01 2025

Have you tried just going in the Shortcut settings in Plasma and
manually assigning the keys that you want? That way, it doesn't really
matter what Plasma thinks the keys are because you are directly entering
them in the settings dialog.

Settings -> Shortcuts -> Shortcuts -> Power Management

Yes, I did. But no success.
But as I mentioned in a former post: I think, it is not a problem with X or
the window-manager, it is a general problem. Because without running X and
only in console, the function keys do not work, too.

It has something to do with acpi, whilst acpi_listen showing correct results.

Whatever, the problem is not X or wm related, it is a system-problem.

Best regards

Hans

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 19:00:02 2025

Still hasseling with this problem....

I am now believing, that the reason of the problem is either a BIOS issue or a kernel issue.

Tested several things and I the issue appears as soon as the kernel is
started. In the internet I found informations, that if the BIOS does not see Windows, it may disable several functions.

Here a kernel parameter like acpi_osi=Linux or similar should help. Tried several combonations, lie acpi_osi=Linux or acpi_osi=!Windows 2022 or acpi_backlight=vendor and combinations of this - but got no success.

However, it is clear, the functions like screen brightness etc. stop working, as soon as the kernel loads. When grub is active (active here means: boot grub menu, where to chose the kernel to start), the brightness of the screen can be changed. But as soon I press enter, and the kernel loads, it stops working.

At that moment /usr amd /var are still not mounted (as I have to open the encrypotion manually). This means: No configuration is involved and no other binaries.

Thus let me conclude: It is a kernel issue with the BIOS and the only way I see, will be to enter some parameters like described above.

However, though reading a lot of manuals, I am lost, what to set and how to start. And in the internet I saw many many people as lost at me with the same issue.

I have the hope, some kernel developer might read here or some specialist or someone got into the same issue than me.

I will work on and try harder, but at the moment I am stuck.

Thanks for reading this.

Best

Hans

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From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 19:20:01 2025

Hans (12025-02-10):

However, it is clear, the functions like screen brightness etc. stop working, as soon as the kernel loads.

That is not surprising. Before the kernel loads, the key are handled by
the firmware and control the computer. After the kernel loads, the keys
are handled by the kernel and generate keyboard events that will be
dispatched to the various programs that might want to interpret them.

The first step for you is to check if the keys stop working at all or
not.

So, you look at all the /dev/input/event* devices, and you do, with root privileges:

xxd /dev/input/event0

and press a few keys. If it prints something, you know the keys work. If
it prints nothing, you break it with ctrl-C and you start again with
event1, then event2, etc., until either you have found the keys work or
you have exhausted the event devices.

Regards,

--
Nicolas George

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 19:30:02 2025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Yes, did so.

All keys are working.

For example:

xxd /dev/input/event12

00000000: 2644 aa67 0000 0000 4336 0900 0000 0000 &D.g....C6......
00000010: 0100 e000 0100 0000 2644 aa67 0000 0000 ........&D.g....
00000020: 4336 0900 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 C6..............
00000030: 2644 aa67 0000 0000 5536 0900 0000 0000 &D.g....U6......
00000040: 0100 e000 0000 0000 2644 aa67 0000 0000 ........&D.g....
00000050: 5536 0900 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 U6..............
00000060: 2744 aa67 0000 0000 2452 0e00 0000 0000 'D.g....$R......
00000070: 0100 e100 0100 0000 2744 aa67 0000 0000 ........'D.g....
00000080: 2452 0e00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 $R..............
00000090: 2744 aa67 0000 0000 2952 0e00 0000 0000 'D.g....)R......
000000a0: 0100 e100 0000 0000 2744 aa67 0000 0000 ........'D.g....
000000b0: 2952 0e00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 )R..............

(This example is for FN+screen_brightness_up and
FN+screen_brightness_down.)

Hans

So, you look at all the /dev/input/event* devices, and you do, with root privileges:

xxd /dev/input/event0

and press a few keys. If it prints something, you know the keys work. If
it prints nothing, you break it with ctrl-C and you start again with
event1, then event2, etc., until either you have found the keys work or
you have exhausted the event devices.

Regards,

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>Yes, did so. 
 All keys are working.
 For example:
 xxd /dev/input/event12 
00000000: 2644 aa67 0000 0000 4336 0900 0000 0000 &D.g....C6...... 00000010: 0100 e000 0100 0000 2644 aa67 0000 0000 ........&D.g.... 00000020: 4336 0900 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 C6.............. 00000030: 2644 aa67 0000 0000 5536 0900 0000 0000 &D.g....U6...... 00000040: 0100 e000 0000 0000 2644 aa67 0000 0000 ........&D.g.... 00000050: 5536 0900 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 U6.............. 00000060: 2744 aa67 0000 0000 2452 0e00 0000 0000 'D.g....$R...... 00000070: 0100 e100 0100 0000 2744 aa67 0000 0000 ........'D.g.... 00000080: 2452 0e00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 $R.............. 
00000090: 2744 aa67 0000 0000 2952 0e00 0000 0000 'D.g....)R...... 000000a0: 0100 e100 0000 0000 2744 aa67 0000 0000 ........'D.g.... 000000b0: 2952 0e00 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 )R..............
 (This example is for FN+screen_brightness_up and 
FN+screen_brightness_down.)
 Hans
 > So, you look at all the /dev/input/event* devices, and you do, with root
> privileges:
> > xxd /dev/input/event0
> > and press a few keys. If it prints something, you know the keys work. If
> it prints nothing, you break it with ctrl-C and you start again with
> event1, then event2, etc., until either you have found the keys work or
> you have exhausted the event devices.
> > Regards,
 </body>
</html>

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From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 11 11:50:01 2025

Hans (12025-02-10):

All keys are working.

For example:

xxd /dev/input/event12

<snip>

(This example is for FN+screen_brightness_up and
FN+screen_brightness_down.)

Then your problem is easy. If some keys did not generate events, getting
them to work might have been a nightmare or impossible. But since they
do, all you need to do is make sure there is a userland program running
that is listening for these events and acting on them.

Traditionally, this has been the task of desktop environments. More
recently, systemd has taken over the handling of power-related buttons
and keys while leaving audio- and video- related keys to the desktop environment.

That means, by default, the power keys should work as soon as the system
starts booting but the audio and video keys should start working when a
desktop environment is running.

If that is not happening or if you want the keys to be handled without a desktop environment, you will need to explain the circumstances in more details.

Regards,

--
Nicolas George

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 11 15:10:01 2025

Hi Nicolas,

I do not think it is so easy!

But let me go further into details. I am running plasma5 from Debian/stable, but also XFCE is installed as well as LXQT and some parts of GNOME.

The GNOME parts are installed, because these are dependencies of some applications, which are GNOME related.

Thus, I can not deinstall these.

So far so well. Now to the weired things:

In plasma (let me name it "KDE" further on) and in LXQT, none of the keys are working. I tried different keyboard setings, like "pc105" "nodeadkeys" as well as "DELL Latitude" "nodeadkeys". None of them is working.

Otherwise in XFCE: Here the keys for screen brightness increase and decrease are working, but NOT "volume up" and "volume down".

When in GNOME environment, then all keys are working, "volume up" and "down"
as well as "screen brightness up" and "down".

I am also running a livefile system from an USB-stick, it i KALI-Linux, which is debian based and the windowmanger in KALI is XFCE. Strange thing: In XFCE there all FN keys are working as they should - volume and brightness.

Last thing: In console with no X11 started, the brightness keys are not
working at all. Volume could not be tested.

This is the actual state.

When you say, this is a problem with the windowmanager, then maybe there is a conflict among XFCE, KDE, LXQT and GNOME. But the only way to abvoid this, might be to deinstall everything eslse but KDE. This is no good idea.

Maybe I could try, to move some files away, like gconf or similar. GNOME is never used by me, but I often jump among KDE, LXQT and XFCE (as every windowmanager has its own advantages for special needs).

The thing I am wondering is: Why is there no option in al windowmanagers just to use the default keyboard (default = the one configured in for console)?

In XFCE it is using the standard keyboiard, in LXQT and KDE you can set from a menu (but not sure, if they will not use its own keymaps) and LXQT the same.

But as I said: In console without X running, the FN keys are also not working!

See, I believe it is not such easy! But no problem, it is not urgent.

Best regards

Hans

Then your problem is easy. If some keys did not generate events, getting
them to work might have been a nightmare or impossible. But since they
do, all you need to do is make sure there is a userland program running
that is listening for these events and acting on them.

Traditionally, this has been the task of desktop environments. More
recently, systemd has taken over the handling of power-related buttons
and keys while leaving audio- and video- related keys to the desktop environment.

That means, by default, the power keys should work as soon as the system starts booting but the audio and video keys should start working when a desktop environment is running.

If that is not happening or if you want the keys to be handled without a desktop environment, you will need to explain the circumstances in more details.

Regards,

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From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 12 12:40:01 2025

Good news! I got partly success with this issue. Now volume upand down is workiing in KDE, but still NOT screen brightness.

What did I do?
I first created a new user and then could see, volume is working. After that I moved some directories from my old user away.
First ~/.local - no success.
then ~/.kde - no success
last ~/.config - success.

Now I knew, some config is making trouble. So moved the most suspicous away:

Anything with "keyb" in its name, or "kbd" - no success.

Then all files below ~/.config - success

Now moved one after another back. And at last, I found it is

kdeglobalshortcutsrc

Strange, this was the one I moved away at first, but got no success.

Short before long: My efforts resulted in half success, as brightness can stoill not be controlled and in XFCE still volume control not working (so I guess, same issue with some config).

After all the work, I believe, that some configs still got settings from my former notebook which was a Lenovo T520. As I put the harddrive into this one (DELL Latiude 5400), some config files are not overwritten since creation.

You can say: delete ~/.config and ~/.local and set everything new. Yes, I
could do this, but this is a lot(!) of work and I want to avoid it.

So still hints are welcome and I suppose, we will all learn of it, don't we?

Have fun!

Best

Hans

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