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  • Firefox and XFCE

    From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 9 12:40:01 2024
    I have Debian 12 with XFCE and firefox on my Laptop. The XFCE window
    manager is configured such that a window is not raised when I click or
    double click (select) inside it. This works for all X11 windows
    except for firefox, which is raised when I click inside.

    Why is firefox's behavior so different and how can I change it?

    Steve

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 17 13:20:01 2024
    Mike Castle <[email protected]> writes:

    Out of curiosity, how do you raise windows?

    I can raise windows by clicking into the title bar or by clicking the
    window while holding the left mouse button.

    Similarly, a copy of your FF prefs.js (sanitized, of course). This
    file would be in your profile directory and contains only values that
    are different from built in defaults.

    I have grepped through prefs.js and haven't found anything that sounds
    related, i.e. I have searched for "click", "focus", "rais",
    "foreground", etc.

    I also presume that this just recently started happening, and you have
    tried restarting both FF and logging out/in just in case anything
    wonky happened during some upgrade.

    No, this has been from the installation of Debian 12 to this Laptop.
    Before that, I had Xubuntu 20.04 (Ubuntu with XFCE) on another Laptop
    that has crashed (broken mainboard). I also run Xubuntu 18.04 in a
    VirtualBox on a Windows host. Both also configured to not raise on
    click and focus follows mouse, and both behave as I want, i.e. firefox
    also obeys these settings, like all other X11 programs.

    Steve

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Wed Dec 25 08:30:01 2024
    Max Nikulin <[email protected]> writes:

    On 17/12/2024 18:55, [email protected] wrote:
    I have grepped through prefs.js and haven't found anything that sounds related,

    A shot in the dark: does switching between regular window title and client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
    toolbar, "customize toolbar")

    What an amazing good shot. That was exactly it. It fixed the
    unwanted raising of firefox's windows and also stops firefox from
    doing its own title bars with different buttons (e.g. no "Roll Up").
    I disliked this second behavior also but could live with it. Now,
    both are working fine. So, thanks a lot.

    And I didn't even know about that setting. So I'm surprised that
    Debian sets it as default, as I am sure I haven't changed it.

    I believed, it is up to window manager whether to raise application
    window on its request or to just highlight it as requiring attention
    in the taskbar.

    That is my understanding, too.

    Steve

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Dec 25 15:10:01 2024
    On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 07:11:11 +0000, [email protected] wrote:
    Max Nikulin <[email protected]> writes:
    A shot in the dark: does switching between regular window title and client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
    toolbar, "customize toolbar")

    And I didn't even know about that setting. So I'm surprised that
    Debian sets it as default, as I am sure I haven't changed it.

    It's Firefox (upstream) that does it by default.

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Thu Dec 26 04:20:01 2024
    On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 10:10:47 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 25/12/2024 14:11, [email protected] wrote:
    Max Nikulin writes:

    does switching between regular window title and
    client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
    toolbar, "customize toolbar")

    That was exactly it. It fixed the
    unwanted raising of firefox's windows and also stops firefox from
    doing its own title bars with different buttons (e.g. no "Roll Up").

    You may try to search for mozilla, window manager (fvwm?), gtk bugs or discussions related to client-side decoration and rising on click. Are there other applications that use CSD and behave in a similar way?

    Google Chrome also did this thing, I believe, until I configured it.
    But it was so long ago that I don't remember what I changed, exactly.

    Another program that exhibits this behavior right now is Steam.
    When I launch Steam, it sometimes tries to pop up a window showing
    current sales promotions or whatever. However, it's impossible to
    raise the sales promotion window to the top so that I can actually
    see all of its contents. It's permanently stuck beneath the main
    game window, until I just close it. I can slide it around the screen
    and see part of the content, but that's it.

    The idea that your application should do its own window management
    because the user's chosen WM may differ from what you, the developer,
    wanted is utter hubris. Especially when you can't even get it to
    work the way you thought it should.

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Thu Dec 26 08:00:01 2024
    On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 10:17:02PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:

    [...]

    The idea that your application should do its own window management
    because the user's chosen WM may differ from what you, the developer,
    wanted is utter hubris. Especially when you can't even get it to
    work the way you thought it should.

    It's not hubris. It's the idea that public space, your computer, your
    eyeballs, your brain (in roughly that order) belong to surveillance
    capitalism (a malign mutation of the already malign ad industry).

    It's the "new frontier" [1] of capitalist accumulation. Robbery, as
    it has always been.

    Merry XMas.

    [1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2024/02/how-the-frontier-became-the-slogan-of-uncontrolled-ai.html
    --
    t


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  • From Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 26 10:50:01 2024
    On Thursday, 26 December 2024 00:10:47 -03 Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 25/12/2024 14:11, [email protected] wrote:
    Max Nikulin writes:
    does switching between regular window title and
    client-side decorations changes anything? (right click menu for
    toolbar, "customize toolbar")

    That was exactly it. It fixed the
    unwanted raising of firefox's windows and also stops firefox from
    doing its own title bars with different buttons (e.g. no "Roll Up").

    You may try to search for mozilla, window manager (fvwm?), gtk bugs or discussions related to client-side decoration and rising on click.
    Are there other applications that use CSD and behave in a similar
    way?

    Hi,
    I found Zotero and the Telegram-Desktop client behave in the same way.
    There does not seem to be a setup pertaining to that behaviour for those applications.
    In my case on KDE 24 and Sid.
    All the best
    --
    Eike Lantzsch KY4PZ / ZP5CGE

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