Hi all.

I am a long time Linux user (since before 2000) and an xubuntu user
since somewhere in the early 2000s.

However I'm finding various aspects of [x]ubuntu are becoming steadily
more annoying so I'm looking for other distributions and Debian would
seem to be an obvious way to go.

I already run Debian on two Beaglebone Black single board computers
and I also run several Raspberry Pis with the default Rasbian[ish] OS.
I do most things on all my systems from the command line so I suspect
that I really won't see much difference if/when I move to Debian.

However I do have a couple of questions:-

1 - Is keeping a Debian system up to date just like Ubuntu, i.e. one
just needs to run 'apt update;apt upgrade' at regular intervals? ...
and of course autoremove and clean as required.

2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This
is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless. Even
better can I do the installation via ssh?

3 - Piece of string type question - what versions to install? On the
backup system stable is obvious. The other two systems are my desktop
which is also used as my mail server (running postfix) and my laptop.
I think I'll go for testing on the laptop but I'm not sure whether
stable or testing would be best for the desktop. I tended to keep my
desktop running Ubuntu LTS releases, would I get about the same 'feel'
with Debian stable?

--
Chris Green

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On 10 Oct 2024 15:41 +0100, from [email protected] (Chris Green):

1 - Is keeping a Debian system up to date just like Ubuntu, i.e. one
just needs to run 'apt update;apt upgrade' at regular intervals? ...
and of course autoremove and clean as required.

Yes. I usually use apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade; for apt you
might want apt full-upgrade; but this only matters if packages are
held back. (This can be relevant for example if there are kernel ABI
version upgrades, but either tool will let you know if this is the
case.)

There are also multiple ways of automating it, including the unattended-upgrades and cron-apt packages. (I use cron-apt, which in
the default configuration will run once daily, download updates, not
install them, but send an email if there are any.)

2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This
is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless. Even
better can I do the installation via ssh?

Not sure about remote installation over SSH, but yes you can
definitely make a no-GUI installation. If you run the installer
manually it'll ask you IIRC about mid-way through what "tasks" to
install; simply pick the SSH server task and no GUI task to get what
you want. You can also prepare a preseed configuration for the
installation; I have an example on my web site at https://michael.kjorling.se/debian-12-bookworm-preseed/ which should
largely meet your needs for an initial installation, but assumes a
pristine system. The gory details are in the Debian installation
guide, Appendix B. https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/apb.en.html

3 - Piece of string type question - what versions to install? On the
backup system stable is obvious. The other two systems are my desktop
which is also used as my mail server (running postfix) and my laptop.
I think I'll go for testing on the laptop but I'm not sure whether
stable or testing would be best for the desktop. I tended to keep my
desktop running Ubuntu LTS releases, would I get about the same 'feel'
with Debian stable?

If I recall correctly, Ubuntu is largely based on then-current Debian
Testing plus Canonical's own special sauce, but is then largely fixed
in time until the next release. This makes it more similar to Stable
than to Testing, especially with Ubuntu LTS's release cadence which
roughly matches that of Debian Stable (approximately once every two
years; Debian's is _slightly_ less predictable than Ubuntu's).

I would suggest going with Debian Stable on all systems unless you
have a specific requirement that can only be met by Testing. You can
add the backports component if you want newer versions of packages; or
you can upgrade to Testing; but both of those have their own caveats.
It's a lot easier to upgrade from Stable to Testing than to downgrade
from Testing to Stable (except right around the pre-release freeze) if
you change your mind.

--
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 03:11:34PM +0000, Michael Kj�rling wrote:

On 10 Oct 2024 15:41 +0100, from [email protected] (Chris Green):

[snip]

Lots of really helpful replies, thank you Michael.

Yes, maybe stable is the way to go for all my systems, at least
initially.

--
Chris Green

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On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 15:41:35 +0100
Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:

However I do have a couple of questions:-

1 - Is keeping a Debian system up to date just like Ubuntu, i.e. one
just needs to run 'apt update;apt upgrade' at regular intervals? ...
and of course autoremove and clean as required.

The process is identical. Or you can automate it with auto-apt-upgrades.

2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This
is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless.

Yes. Do not select any GUI wen you get to that question during
installation.

Even better can I do the installation via ssh?

Part of it, yes. But you need a display and keyboard to get that far in
the process.

3 - Piece of string type question - what versions to install? On the
backup system stable is obvious. The other two systems are my desktop
which is also used as my mail server (running postfix) and my laptop.
I think I'll go for testing on the laptop but I'm not sure whether
stable or testing would be best for the desktop. I tended to keep my
desktop running Ubuntu LTS releases, would I get about the same 'feel'
with Debian stable?

Unless you have a specific reason to use testing, I suggest stable on
all your machines. Stable is much closer to the LTS releases than
testing.

But since you didn't say what your complaints about xubuntu are, I
can't give you any guidance on whether you will get away from them with
Debian. On stable, XFCE is at version 4.18. Testing is currently at
4.18 also.

--
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 09:32:25AM -0600, Charles Curley wrote:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 15:41:35 +0100
Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

3 - Piece of string type question - what versions to install? On the
backup system stable is obvious. The other two systems are my desktop which is also used as my mail server (running postfix) and my laptop.
I think I'll go for testing on the laptop but I'm not sure whether
stable or testing would be best for the desktop. I tended to keep my desktop running Ubuntu LTS releases, would I get about the same 'feel'
with Debian stable?

Unless you have a specific reason to use testing, I suggest stable on
all your machines. Stable is much closer to the LTS releases than
testing.

Yes, I think maybe that's the way I should go, at least initially.

But since you didn't say what your complaints about xubuntu are, I
can't give you any guidance on whether you will get away from them with Debian. On stable, XFCE is at version 4.18. Testing is currently at
4.18 also.

My main complaint is snap, which I have removed but I suspect it's
going to become steadily more difficult to run Ubuntu without snap.

My only need for 'latest' versions tends to be for a very few things
where keeping different systems in step is important. Some are in
PPAs (e.g. syncthing) so I get the same version on all my systems that
way. The other one I can think of at the moment is GnuCash which I
run on two systems with the same database so it has to be at the same
version on both.

So I think it may well be that Debian stable will do all I need, with,
maybe some backports (I'll have to look into how they work).

Thank you.

--
Chris Green

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On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 03:41:35PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:

Hi all.

I am a long time Linux user (since before 2000) and an xubuntu user
since somewhere in the early 2000s.

However I'm finding various aspects of [x]ubuntu are becoming steadily
more annoying so I'm looking for other distributions and Debian would
seem to be an obvious way to go.

I already run Debian on two Beaglebone Black single board computers
and I also run several Raspberry Pis with the default Rasbian[ish] OS.
I do most things on all my systems from the command line so I suspect
that I really won't see much difference if/when I move to Debian.

However I do have a couple of questions:-

1 - Is keeping a Debian system up to date just like Ubuntu, i.e. one
just needs to run 'apt update;apt upgrade' at regular intervals? ...
and of course autoremove and clean as required.

As Michael has said: apt-get update is my preferred but it doesn't really matter - Ubuntu got both apt-get and apt from Debian, originally :)

There is also a prompt offering to install security updates automatically.
I can't remember whether this is in every install or only the expert mode
of the installer.

2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This

is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless. Even
better can I do the installation via ssh?

With tasksel, just uncheck all GUI and add in ssh server as mentioned. Installing via ssh is certainly possible: check in the installation
manual - it is an involved process and you might need the expert install.
[In the middle of mini-DebConf Cambridge and can't easily check myself
but would be prepared to do a test installl into VM for you].

3 - Piece of string type question - what versions to install? On the
backup system stable is obvious. The other two systems are my desktop
which is also used as my mail server (running postfix) and my laptop.
I think I'll go for testing on the laptop but I'm not sure whether
stable or testing would be best for the desktop. I tended to keep my
desktop running Ubuntu LTS releases, would I get about the same 'feel'
with Debian stable?

Debian stable, first last and always. See also wiki.debian.org under
Debian Releases.

--
Chris Green

All the very best, as ever,

Andy
([email protected])

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On Thu, 2024-10-10 at 16:45 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

My main complaint is snap, which I have removed but I suspect it's
going to become steadily more difficult to run Ubuntu without snap.

Welcome to Debian, no forced snap nonsense here.

My only need for 'latest' versions tends to be for a very few things
where keeping different systems in step is important. Some are in
PPAs (e.g. syncthing) so I get the same version on all my systems that
way. The other one I can think of at the moment is GnuCash which I
run on two systems with the same database so it has to be at the same
version on both.

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of
getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay) or Gnucash.
Of course, better be careful with what you install from Flathub, it
definedly is not always as trustworthy and well-tested as proper distro packages. But I think it is no worse in that regard than some PPA.

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On 10 Oct 2024 20:40 +0300, from [email protected] (Henrik Ahlgren):

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of
getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay)

These days, Mozilla also offers a true Debian repository.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions-recommended

Though I would adjust that apt pinning configuration slightly to favor
only firefox and maybe thunderbird packages from their repository,
instead of giving them carte blache to upgrade/replace any package.

Caveats about FrankenDebian apply.

https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_make_a_FrankenDebian

Also be aware of that by installing their build (including through
their Flatpaks), you might not benefit from some of the changes that
are made by the Debian team. _For example_, you might get the
so-called "privacy-preserving" ad measurement turned on by default
unless you go out of your way to turn that off preemptively. https://michael.kjorling.se/blog/2024/disabling-privacy-preserving-ad-measurement-in-firefox-128/

--
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 06:26:37PM +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:

On 10 Oct 2024 20:40 +0300, from [email protected] (Henrik Ahlgren):

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay)

These days, Mozilla also offers a true Debian repository.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions-recommended

I don't really trust Mozilla that much anymore. I use it because
the alternatives are even worse, but it feels a bit like the frog
preheater.

It seems I'm not the only one:

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/

Cheers
--
t

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On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:45:05 +0100
Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:

My main complaint is snap, which I have removed but I suspect it's
going to become steadily more difficult to run Ubuntu without snap.

snapd and flatpak are available as Debian packages, but are entirely
optional. I prefer to avoid them also; I'd rather compile locally.

My only need for 'latest' versions tends to be for a very few things
where keeping different systems in step is important.

As long as your various systems are more or less in sync (see below)
you don't have to have the latest and greatest, just compatible
versions.

Some are in PPAs (e.g. syncthing) so I get the same version on all my
systems that way.

I run syncthing from their repos. I think. I have two different
versions on my three machines that are running right now,
1.19.2~ds1-1+b4 and 1.27.2~ds4-1. I've had no complaints so it appears
there is some robustness there. I shall look into why that difference
exists.

The other one I can think of at the moment is GnuCash which I
run on two systems with the same database so it has to be at the same
version on both.

My three machines agree on version 1:4.13-1, all from Debian repos.
1:5.8-1+b1 is the current version for testing. So you should be good
there.

So I think it may well be that Debian stable will do all I need, with,
maybe some backports (I'll have to look into how they work).

https://backports.debian.org

--
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This
is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless. Even
better can I do the installation via ssh?

Assuming you have enough disk space, you can install into a new
LV/partition while the old system is still running (via `deboostrap`
and then `chroot`). It's more fiddly than using the normal Debian
installer, but that's my second favorite choice (my first choice is to
just clone some existing install, e.g. via `dd`).


Stefan

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On 10 Oct 2024 20:47 +0200, from [email protected]:

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of
getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like >>> Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay)

These days, Mozilla also offers a true Debian repository.

I don't really trust Mozilla that much anymore. I use it because
the alternatives are even worse,

https://michael.kjorling.se/blog/2024/staying-with-firefox-for-now/

but it feels a bit like the frog preheater.

It seems I'm not the only one:

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/

Most of the issues with Mozilla the organization _should_ have little
bearing on the relative safety of exactly how one is installing a
Firefox package for Debian _built and delivered by Mozilla_. apt*'s or
dpkg's conflict handling _should_ scream bloody murder if two packages
try to own the same file. Also the original point was about getting
official Firefox releases as Flatpaks directly from Mozilla without
any delay; for that, their Flatpak repository or their Debian package repository should be essentially equivalent.

But even in a theoretical situation absent _any_ issues with Mozilla,
there's still no reason why they should be trusted with pushing a
package named, say, libc6 or xorg or mousepad which overrides the
package provided through the Debian repositories simply by virtue of
having a higher version number in the repository manifest. Which is
why I don't see any reason to give _everything_ originating from their repository a pin priority of 1000, as their setup suggests. What they
ship, which I would expect to be firefox, thunderbird (possibly plus
ESR versions separately packaged) and the corresponding localization
packages, should be sufficient.

--
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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On Friday, 11-10-2024 at 05:47 [email protected] wrote:

On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 06:26:37PM +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:

On 10 Oct 2024 20:40 +0300, from [email protected] (Henrik Ahlgren):

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay)

These days, Mozilla also offers a true Debian repository.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions-recommended

I don't really trust Mozilla that much anymore. I use it because
the alternatives are even worse, but it feels a bit like the frog
preheater.

It seems I'm not the only one:

You are not the only one.

I am so over companies who want to collect our personal data (of any kind), and then "share" or sell our data to others.

I would my "Personal Computer" (PC) to be just that, "personal" not public or shared.

George.

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/

Cheers
--
t

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Hi Chris,

I do not know what programs you run or how up to date you want your system to be which means my answers to your questions might not give you the answer you are looking for.

I only run programs that are in Debian's stable collection (I guess I am ultra conservative when it comes to running programs).

I do run a few non-debian packaged programs, like Discord, a game called Genshin Impact, Eclipse, etc.

I only care about having a stable experience and have no need for the "latest and greatest" version. At times I thought I was missing out. About six months ago I used Arch Linux (KDE) on one computer for hardware reasons and to try a rolling release
distribution. Arch Linux is about as "latest and greatest" as one can get. As I do not require the latest programs, I have found no benefit in using Arch Linux. I found Arch Linux to be stable. I have only been using Arch Linux for six months and have
enjoyed the experience. At one time something when wrong with the installer and I had to look up the Internet for a fix, but once I corrected the issue, all worked well again. I am amazed how stable most Linux distributions are today.

I would not suggest running Debian unstable as a primary work OS. I understand many people do, but it is not officially recommended, and I agree as unstable is for getting new releases ready, hence expect change and conflicts from time to time.

I have used XFCE for most of my Debian times, but recently have been using KDE. KDE is very attractive, XFCE is nice, simple, and configurable.

When using KDE I change back to using X11 (in both Debian and Arch Linux) as I believe that Wayland is not production ready as yet. Hopefully I am wrong and Wayland now works.

To update Debian I use:
# apt update && apt full-upgrade --autoremove -y && apt autoremove -y && apt clean
and
# apt update && apt update && apt full-upgrade --autoremove -y && apt autoremove -y && apt clean
(I like to double read the repository)

for Arch Linux
# pacman -Syu

By choice, I do not use flatpacks or snaps. I only use apt packages. I guess both have their uses?

I use Debian to run my headless servers (for Minecraft, Arch Survival Evolved, SAMBA, Web, Email, etc servers). During the install process I unselect the desktop environment, and do not install any GUI, install SSH server and there after use ssh to
maintain the server remotely. I think Debian stable makes an excellent server. I always install Debian in text mode, using the Expert install option, it gives me one or two other options that I like. I struggle to see a real difference between Expert
install and non-expert install.

I use Virt-Manager a lot these days, it is simple and effective for managing my VMs on my KVM servers, or on my Desktop PCs, for spinning up a Distro for review or testing. A long time ago I used to use VMware Workstation, vSphere and ESXi.

In summary, I really appreciate Debian and Apt. When I have used Arch Linux or Linux Mint Debian Edition, they too have been excellent. I like stability and all three have provided me with this. I have used Debian the longest. All the best in your
choice.

George.





On Friday, 11-10-2024 at 01:41 Chris Green wrote:

Hi all.

I am a long time Linux user (since before 2000) and an xubuntu user
since somewhere in the early 2000s.

However I'm finding various aspects of [x]ubuntu are becoming steadily
more annoying so I'm looking for other distributions and Debian would
seem to be an obvious way to go.

I already run Debian on two Beaglebone Black single board computers
and I also run several Raspberry Pis with the default Rasbian[ish] OS.
I do most things on all my systems from the command line so I suspect
that I really won't see much difference if/when I move to Debian.

However I do have a couple of questions:-

1 - Is keeping a Debian system up to date just like Ubuntu, i.e. one
just needs to run 'apt update;apt upgrade' at regular intervals? ...
and of course autoremove and clean as required.

2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This
is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless. Even
better can I do the installation via ssh?

3 - Piece of string type question - what versions to install? On the
backup system stable is obvious. The other two systems are my desktop
which is also used as my mail server (running postfix) and my laptop.
I think I'll go for testing on the laptop but I'm not sure whether
stable or testing would be best for the desktop. I tended to keep my
desktop running Ubuntu LTS releases, would I get about the same 'feel'
with Debian stable?

--
Chris Green

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On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 08:52:13PM +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:

On 10 Oct 2024 20:47 +0200, from [email protected]:

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of
getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like >>> Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay)

These days, Mozilla also offers a true Debian repository.

I don't really trust Mozilla that much anymore. I use it because
the alternatives are even worse,

https://michael.kjorling.se/blog/2024/staying-with-firefox-for-now/

Good writing.

This is, more or less, my feeling. That's, more or less, why I still
stay with Firefox. With quite a grudge, mind you.

Basically, the way the ideals of free software are being beaten into
submission is by outcoding them (and by diluting them, see Microsoft's three-pronged approach with Github, Copilot and VSCode, which is
eerily parallel to Google's: dominate the net (search) and the client
(Android, Chrome -- and Firefox on a short leash)).

but it feels a bit like the frog preheater.

It seems I'm not the only one:

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/

Most of the issues with Mozilla the organization _should_ have little
bearing on the relative safety of exactly how one is installing a
Firefox package for Debian _built and delivered by Mozilla_. apt*'s or
dpkg's conflict handling _should_ scream bloody murder if two packages
try to own the same file [...]

That's right. My beef is not with Mozilla itself to subert directly
the operating system's security model. It is to subvert the users
themselves, leading them to curtail their own freedom out of their
own free will.

A business model the ad industry has been honing for aeons (the first "scientific" books about the topic I know of are roughly 100 years
old [1] [2] -- the underlying ideas might be as old as humankind).

Cheers
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystallizing_Public_Opinion

--
t

official Firefox releases as Flatpaks directly from Mozilla without
any delay; for that, their Flatpak repository or their Debian package repository should be essentially equivalent.

But even in a theoretical situation absent _any_ issues with Mozilla,
there's still no reason why they should be trusted with pushing a
package named, say, libc6 or xorg or mousepad which overrides the
package provided through the Debian repositories simply by virtue of
having a higher version number in the repository manifest. Which is
why I don't see any reason to give _everything_ originating from their repository a pin priority of 1000, as their setup suggests. What they
ship, which I would expect to be firefox, thunderbird (possibly plus
ESR versions separately packaged) and the corresponding localization packages, should be sufficient.

--
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared th

On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 04:55:28PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

[...]

Lol... That's been the course for years now. Mozilla almost lost their non-profit status because they were making so much money from their
Google partnership: <https://techcrunch.com/2008/11/19/google-makes-up-88-percent-of-mozillas-revenues-threatens-its-non-profit-status>.

Oh, thanks for that link. I was always looking for that other
end of that "leash" I mentioned in my other post :-)

Cheers
--
t

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On 2024-10-10, Chris Green wrote:

My only need for 'latest' versions tends to be for a very few things
where keeping different systems in step is important. Some are in
PPAs (e.g. syncthing) so I get the same version on all my systems that
way. The other one I can think of at the moment is GnuCash which I
run on two systems with the same database so it has to be at the same
version on both.

Don't forget about backports, very useful for this point

https://backports.debian.org/

gnucash is 4.13 in (stable) bookworn but 5.6 in bookworm-backports

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm-backports/gnucash

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Andrew M.A. Cater <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 03:41:35PM +0100, Chris Green wrote:

2 - Can I easily make a 'server' type installation without a GUI? This

is for a backup system in my garage which is (usually) headless. Even better can I do the installation via ssh?

With tasksel, just uncheck all GUI and add in ssh server as mentioned. Installing via ssh is certainly possible: check in the installation
manual - it is an involved process and you might need the expert install.
[In the middle of mini-DebConf Cambridge and can't easily check myself
but would be prepared to do a test installl into VM for you].

No need for that (testing for me), I can try and if it all goes pear
shaped I'll just have to go out to the system in the garage with a
screen and keyboard (and mouse). If the backup system is down for a
while it wouldn't be a disaster.

--
Chris Green
·

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Michel Verdier <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2024-10-10, Chris Green wrote:

My only need for 'latest' versions tends to be for a very few things
where keeping different systems in step is important. Some are in
PPAs (e.g. syncthing) so I get the same version on all my systems that
way. The other one I can think of at the moment is GnuCash which I
run on two systems with the same database so it has to be at the same version on both.

Don't forget about backports, very useful for this point

https://backports.debian.org/

gnucash is 4.13 in (stable) bookworn but 5.6 in bookworm-backports

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm-backports/gnucash

Yes, I said earlier that I think I need to investigate how to use
backports. GnuCash in particular is a candidate.

--
Chris Green
·

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[email protected] wrote:

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On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 06:26:37PM +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:

On 10 Oct 2024 20:40 +0300, from [email protected] (Henrik Ahlgren):

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay)

These days, Mozilla also offers a true Debian repository.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions-recommended

I don't really trust Mozilla that much anymore. I use it because
the alternatives are even worse, but it feels a bit like the frog
preheater.

It seems I'm not the only one:

https://www.jwz.org/blog/2024/10/mozillas-ceo-doubles-down-on-them-being-an-advertising-company-now/

OP here (refugee from xubunto), I stopped using Firefox before I
decided snap was a 'bad thing'. I use Vivaldi as my main browser now
and have found it pretty good in general.

--
Chris Green
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Henrik Ahlgren <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, 2024-10-10 at 16:45 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

My main complaint is snap, which I have removed but I suspect it's
going to become steadily more difficult to run Ubuntu without snap.

Welcome to Debian, no forced snap nonsense here.

My only need for 'latest' versions tends to be for a very few things
where keeping different systems in step is important. Some are in
PPAs (e.g. syncthing) so I get the same version on all my systems that
way. The other one I can think of at the moment is GnuCash which I
run on two systems with the same database so it has to be at the same version on both.

...however, Flatpak works fine on Debian and is a pretty neat way of
getting very fresh versions of certain selected pieces of software, like Firefox (official Mozilla channel, released without any delay) or Gnucash.
Of course, better be careful with what you install from Flathub, it
definedly is not always as trustworthy and well-tested as proper distro packages. But I think it is no worse in that regard than some PPA.

I've found the syncthing PPA excellent over the past few years that
I've been using syncthing. Similarly with Vivaldi.

That advantage of a PPA is that it keeps the application up to date
without any more than running apt.

I get digikam as an appimage, I currently get GnuCash from the Ubuntu repository, it may make sense to get that as an appimage or flatpak.

--
Chris Green
·

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On 2024-10-11, Chris Green wrote:

Yes, I said earlier that I think I need to investigate how to use
backports. GnuCash in particular is a candidate.

Sorry I miss the point. To install from backports you have to add it in sources.list

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports main contrib non-free

or in the deb822 format

Types: deb
URIs: https://deb.debian.org/debian
Suites: bookworm bookworm-updates bookworm-backports
Components: main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg

and do apt update
then apt -t bookworm-backports install gnucash
or apt -t bookworm-backports upgrade gnucash

Nothing more and it don't break other stable apps

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On 11 Oct 2024 09:38 +0100, from [email protected] (Chris Green):

I can try and if it all goes pear
shaped I'll just have to go out to the system in the garage with a
screen and keyboard (and mouse).

No need for a mouse, even if you use the graphical installer.

--
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

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Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

No need for that (testing for me), I can try and if it all goes pear
shaped I'll just have to go out to the system in the garage with a
screen and keyboard (and mouse). If the backup system is down for a
while it wouldn't be a disaster.

I've actually done a headless install where there was both ssh and
serial console available as soon as the install media booted. I used the scripts and instructions at https://github.com/philpagel/debian-headless
and it was very convenient.

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On 10/15/24 07:35, Anssi Saari wrote:

Chris Green <[email protected]> writes:

No need for that (testing for me), I can try and if it all goes pear
shaped I'll just have to go out to the system in the garage with a
screen and keyboard (and mouse). If the backup system is down for a
while it wouldn't be a disaster.

I've actually done a headless install where there was both ssh and
serial console available as soon as the install media booted. I used the scripts and instructions at https://github.com/philpagel/debian-headless
and it was very convenient.

My media server is headless, but for installation I hooked up a monitor/kb. While it runs without them just fine, I did have to get a video card for it
to make the BIOS happy. But it's happy with the cheapest VGA-only card I
could get off ebay. Doesn't have to be much good, just has to be there.

These days it's usually accessed by NFS, but if I need a shell SSH works for me. In the past I used some VNC variant.

I wrote a script on it that starts at boot and if netstat shows no active connections for 20+ minutes the script tells the computer to shut down. So
at the end of my TV watching, I just ignore it and it goes away.

--
The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth.
-- George Orwell

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