• KDE - Wayland vs X11

    From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 2 02:10:01 2024
    Hi,


    After being a long time XFCE users, on some computers I have been
    installing KDE (on Bookworm) for people. Particularly people who had
    previously been using Windows.


    I don't have  a lot of experience with KDE. I am finding it a very
    visually pleasing and easy to use GUI that has some nice mature
    programs. For example Kdenlive, KPatience.


    When installing KDE for people, I have been leaving Wayland as the
    compositor, believing that X11 was no longer supported. However
    recently I tested X11 and found the experience was much better.


    For example:


    1) In Virt-Manager in X11 I can select "Resize to VM" and it works,
    where as in Wayland the resize does not happen.


    2) In Chromium, if I do screen sharing in Jitsi, the Wayland
    experience there are a number of times I have to select what I want to
    share, but with X11 I can just select the item I want to share once.


    3) Now I can run Steam games, OBS Studio, and Virt-Manager natively,
    without Xwayland being used.


    4) KDE using X11 works well on my PCs with Nvidia cards.



    5) I also wonder if using X11 will mean that Firefox does not lock up
    the whole computer when a certain (yet to be identified) ad is present
    in a web page.


    I want to ask if anyone knows is there any downsides to using using
    KDE with X11 and not with Wayland?

    It would be nice to be able to use X11 until finally Wayland has
    sorted out the various issues that have yet to be resolved,
    application maintainers have all produced a Wayland version of their
    software, and Nvidia and Wayland are happily working well together.
    (hopefully this will be in the near future)



    At this point of time my KDE with X11 experience is better than my KDE
    with Wayland experience. However I am concerned that at some point,
    somewhere, X11 will not be supported, sadly.



    George.


     

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    <body><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>After being a long time XFCE users, on some computers I have been installing KDE (on Bookworm) for people. Particularly people who had previously been using Windows.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't have&nbsp; a
    lot of experience with KDE. I am finding it a very visually pleasing and easy to use GUI that has some nice mature programs. For example Kdenlive, KPatience.</div><div><br></div><div>When installing KDE for people, I have been leaving Wayland as the
    compositor, believing that X11 was no longer supported. However recently I tested X11 and found the experience was much better.</div><div><br></div><div>For example:</div><div><br></div><div>1) In Virt-Manager in X11 I can select "Resize to VM" and it
    works, where as in Wayland the resize does not happen.</div><div><br></div><div>2) In Chromium, if I do screen sharing in Jitsi, the Wayland experience there are a number of times I have to select what I want to share, but with X11 I can just select the
    item I want to share once.</div><div><br></div><div>3) Now I can run Steam games, OBS Studio, and Virt-Manager natively, without Xwayland being used.</div><div><br></div><div>4) KDE using X11 works well on my PCs with Nvidia cards.<br></div><div><br></
    <div>5) I also wonder if using X11 will mean that Firefox does not lock up the whole computer when a certain (yet to be identified) ad is present in a web page.</div><div><br></div><div><b>I want to ask if anyone knows is there any downsides to using
    using KDE with X11 and not with Wayland?</b><br><br>It would be nice to be able to use X11 until finally Wayland has sorted out the various issues that have yet to be resolved, application maintainers have all produced a Wayland version of their software,
    and Nvidia and Wayland are happily working well together. (hopefully this will be in the near future)<br></div><div><br></div><div>At this point of time my KDE with X11 experience is better than my KDE with Wayland experience. However I am concerned
    that at some point, somewhere, X11 will not be supported, sadly.<br></div><div><br></div><div>George.</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br></div></body></html>

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  • From Dan Ritter@21:1/5 to George at Clug on Mon Sep 2 03:40:01 2024
    George at Clug wrote:
    When installing KDE for people, I have been leaving Wayland as the compositor, believing that X11 was no longer supported. However
    recently I tested X11 and found the experience was much better.

    This is not unusual. Wayland is young and immature.

    Wayland has been in the process of replacing X11 for 15 years
    now. When X was 15 years old, the X.org domain name was created,
    and it wasn't for five more years that the X.org Foundation came
    into being.

    At this point of time my KDE with X11 experience is better than my KDE
    with Wayland experience. However I am concerned that at some point, somewhere, X11 will not be supported, sadly.

    You can be concerned, but I recommend not worrying about it
    much.

    It is unlikely that X will be actually abandoned until all of
    these problems with Wayland are solved.

    (There is always somebody who pops up and claims that they have
    never had a problem with Wayland, or any such problems no longer
    exist. That's their subjective experience, and they are entitled
    to be happy about Wayland, but they are not entitled to tell you
    that your experience is invalid.)

    -dsr-

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  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 2 07:30:01 2024
    Dan,

    Thank you for your reply.

    George


    On Monday, 02-09-2024 at 11:15 Dan Ritter wrote:
    George at Clug wrote:
    When installing KDE for people, I have been leaving Wayland as the compositor, believing that X11 was no longer supported. However
    recently I tested X11 and found the experience was much better.

    This is not unusual. Wayland is young and immature.

    Wayland has been in the process of replacing X11 for 15 years
    now. When X was 15 years old, the X.org domain name was created,
    and it wasn't for five more years that the X.org Foundation came
    into being.

    At this point of time my KDE with X11 experience is better than my
    KDE
    with Wayland experience. However I am concerned that at some
    point,
    somewhere, X11 will not be supported, sadly.

    You can be concerned, but I recommend not worrying about it
    much.

    It is unlikely that X will be actually abandoned until all of
    these problems with Wayland are solved.

    (There is always somebody who pops up and claims that they have
    never had a problem with Wayland, or any such problems no longer
    exist. That's their subjective experience, and they are entitled
    to be happy about Wayland, but they are not entitled to tell you
    that your experience is invalid.)

    -dsr-



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    <body>Dan,<br>

    Thank you for your reply. <br>

    George<br>


    On Monday, 02-09-2024 at 11:15 Dan Ritter wrote:<br>
    &gt; George at Clug wrote: <br>
    &gt; &gt; When installing KDE for people, I have been leaving Wayland as the<br>
    &gt; &gt; compositor, believing that X11 was no longer supported. However<br> &gt; &gt; recently I tested X11 and found the experience was much better.<br> &gt; <br>
    &gt; This is not unusual. Wayland is young and immature.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Wayland has been in the process of replacing X11 for 15 years<br>
    &gt; now. When X was 15 years old, the X.org domain name was created,<br>
    &gt; and it wasn't for five more years that the X.org Foundation came<br>
    &gt; into being.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; &gt; At this point of time my KDE with X11 experience is better than my KDE<br>
    &gt; &gt; with Wayland experience. However I am concerned that at some point,<br>
    &gt; &gt; somewhere, X11 will not be supported, sadly.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; You can be concerned, but I recommend not worrying about it<br>
    &gt; much.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; It is unlikely that X will be actually abandoned until all of<br>
    &gt; these problems with Wayland are solved.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; (There is always somebody who pops up and claims that they have<br>
    &gt; never had a problem with Wayland, or any such problems no longer<br>
    &gt; exist. That's their subjective experience, and they are entitled<br>
    &gt; to be happy about Wayland, but they are not entitled to tell you<br>
    &gt; that your experience is invalid.)<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; -dsr-<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt;</body></html>

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  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 2 10:10:02 2024
    Dan Ritter (12024-09-01):
    It is unlikely that X will be actually abandoned until all of
    these problems with Wayland are solved.

    oneko and xeyes do not work properly with Wayland, that is definitely a
    deal breaker.

    Regards,

    --
    Nicolas George

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  • From Erwan David@21:1/5 to Nicolas George on Mon Sep 2 10:20:01 2024
    On Mon, Sep 02, 2024 at 10:03:32AM CEST, Nicolas George <[email protected]> said:
    Dan Ritter (12024-09-01):
    It is unlikely that X will be actually abandoned until all of
    these problems with Wayland are solved.

    oneko and xeyes do not work properly with Wayland, that is definitely a
    deal breaker.

    Regards,

    I cannot say if it is wayland or plasma5, but
    1) plasma does not start non wayland apps (emacs, firefox,
    thunderbird) at statrtup. Considering my problems with emacs ans
    ssh-agent, for this I would look to a startup ordering mess (apps
    being started before xwayland).

    2) I lose some shortcuts, because under wayland, I cannot have a
    difference bewteen keys on the keypad, and keys on the main keyboard.

    Due to this (and especially point 1) I stopped using wayland with
    plasma. But I'll try again when plasma6 arrives in testing

    However, with plasma5 wayland support is still incomplete, and X11
    support won't disappear soon


    --
    Erwan David

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  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 2 11:30:01 2024
    On Monday, 02-09-2024 at 18:03 Nicolas George wrote:
    Dan Ritter (12024-09-01):
    It is unlikely that X will be actually abandoned until all of
    these problems with Wayland are solved.

    oneko and xeyes do not work properly with Wayland, that is definitely a
    deal breaker.

    Thanks for making me smile !

    George.



    Regards,

    --
    Nicolas George



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