I have several Debian/unstable machines, all with a Nvidia card.

On one of them, due to a bug in nouveau in the past, I use the
proprietary nvidia driver: libnvidia-legacy-390xx-* packages.
And the initrd size is reasonable:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 66937544 2024-07-30 11:27:32 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

Note that on this machine, firmware-nvidia-graphics is not installed.
According to its description, this package is apparently for the
nouveau driver:

Package: firmware-nvidia-graphics
[...]
Source: firmware-nonfree
Version: 20240709-1
Suggests: initramfs-tools
Conflicts: firmware-misc-nonfree (<< 20230625-3~)
Description: Binary firmware for Nvidia GPU chips
This package contains the binary firmware for Nvidia graphics chips using
the nouveau driver.

On other machines, I use the nouveau driver, but
firmware-nvidia-graphics now makes the initrd.* file much larger.
See the increase:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 69879473 2024-07-19 02:11:58 initrd.img-6.7.12-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 112644015 2024-08-01 13:01:40 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

which may be a problem with the small /boot partition (500 MB).
This is currently OK, but if I want to have 3 or 4 kernels (e.g.
due to future bugs), this might not be possible.

Should I switch to the proprietary nvidia driver on these machines?

--
Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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Vincent Lefevre composed on 2024-08-01 15:26 (UTC+0200):

I have several Debian/unstable machines, all with a Nvidia card.

On one of them, due to a bug in nouveau in the past, I use the
proprietary nvidia driver: libnvidia-legacy-390xx-* packages.
And the initrd size is reasonable:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 66937544 2024-07-30 11:27:32 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

Note that on this machine, firmware-nvidia-graphics is not installed. According to its description, this package is apparently for the
nouveau driver:

Package: firmware-nvidia-graphics
[...]
Source: firmware-nonfree
Version: 20240709-1
Suggests: initramfs-tools
Conflicts: firmware-misc-nonfree (<< 20230625-3~)
Description: Binary firmware for Nvidia GPU chips
This package contains the binary firmware for Nvidia graphics chips using
the nouveau driver.

On other machines, I use the nouveau driver, but
firmware-nvidia-graphics now makes the initrd.* file much larger.
See the increase:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 69879473 2024-07-19 02:11:58 initrd.img-6.7.12-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 112644015 2024-08-01 13:01:40 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1076561

which may be a problem with the small /boot partition (500 MB).
This is currently OK, but if I want to have 3 or 4 kernels (e.g.
due to future bugs), this might not be possible.

Should I switch to the proprietary nvidia driver on these machines?

AIUI, those old enough to use 390 drivers won't likely have support much longer,
if even supported now, while the bug fix should trim initrd size considerably before too long.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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On 2024-08-01 10:23:53 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

Vincent Lefevre composed on 2024-08-01 15:26 (UTC+0200):

I have several Debian/unstable machines, all with a Nvidia card.

On one of them, due to a bug in nouveau in the past, I use the
proprietary nvidia driver: libnvidia-legacy-390xx-* packages.
And the initrd size is reasonable:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 66937544 2024-07-30 11:27:32 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

Note that on this machine, firmware-nvidia-graphics is not installed. According to its description, this package is apparently for the
nouveau driver:

Package: firmware-nvidia-graphics
[...]
Source: firmware-nonfree
Version: 20240709-1
Suggests: initramfs-tools
Conflicts: firmware-misc-nonfree (<< 20230625-3~)
Description: Binary firmware for Nvidia GPU chips
This package contains the binary firmware for Nvidia graphics chips using
the nouveau driver.

On other machines, I use the nouveau driver, but
firmware-nvidia-graphics now makes the initrd.* file much larger.
See the increase:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 69879473 2024-07-19 02:11:58 initrd.img-6.7.12-amd64
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 112644015 2024-08-01 13:01:40 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1076561

which may be a problem with the small /boot partition (500 MB).
This is currently OK, but if I want to have 3 or 4 kernels (e.g.
due to future bugs), this might not be possible.

Should I switch to the proprietary nvidia driver on these machines?

AIUI, those old enough to use 390 drivers won't likely have support
much longer, if even supported now,

The machines for which I currently use nouveau are new.
So, if I switch to the proprietary nvidia driver, this will
be the latest version, not the 390 drivers.

while the bug fix should trim initrd size considerably before
too long.

What do you mean?

--
Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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Vincent Lefevre composed on 2024-08-01 17:18 (UTC+0200):

On 2024-08-01 10:23:53 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

the bug fix should trim initrd size considerably before
too long.

What do you mean?

After package containing bug fix is installed, newly generated initrds will be considerably smaller that they were or would have been before the fix arrived. --
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

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On 2024-08-01 11:32:10 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

Vincent Lefevre composed on 2024-08-01 17:18 (UTC+0200):

On 2024-08-01 10:23:53 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

the bug fix should trim initrd size considerably before
too long.

What do you mean?

After package containing bug fix is installed, newly generated
initrds will be considerably smaller that they were or would have
been before the fix arrived.

There are no fixes for the current increase. I think that you got
confused with another bug. Let me explain.

On 2024-08-01 10:23:53 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

Vincent Lefevre composed on 2024-08-01 15:26 (UTC+0200):

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 69879473 2024-07-19 02:11:58 initrd.img-6.7.12-amd64
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 112644015 2024-08-01 13:01:40 initrd.img-6.9.12-amd64

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1076561

No, bug 1076561 is fixed. FYI, without this fix, the initrd file was
so big that the kernel package could not even be installed on this
machine. Now, I can install it, but the initrd file is nevertheless
much bigger.

If I understand correctly, firmware-nonfree got new drivers
for many Nvidia cards, hence the big increase; that's why
firmware-misc-nonfree was split:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1057786

But this is not helpful for users of Nvidia cards, despite the fact
is that in practice, one just needs a small part of these drivers.

--
Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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On 2024-08-01 12:12:31 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:

On Thu, 2024-08-01 at 15:26 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Should I switch to the proprietary nvidia driver on these machines?

Without NVidia's graphics accelerator, using software rendering with
nouveau is painfully slow. Sometimes even the mouse cursor is frozen.

Well, with an old machine (~ 10 years old), nouveau was indeed
painfully slow (e.g. when moving a window or when scrolling),
but only with multiple screens. I did not have any issue with
a single screen. And my new machines are OK with nouveau.

This is especially the case if you're looking at a web page that has an annoying video ad playing in a sidebar.

The NVidia 390 driver is not available for Debian 12 (and it might not
have been available for Debian 11). I wasted a lot of my time, and a
lot of bandwidth in this discussion list, trying to install it. On my desktop, I installed a Quadro K2200 card to replace by GeForce card --
so now a computer that I use less frequently is stuck with nouveau. On
a laptop, I'm stuck with nouveau or returning to Debian 10.

The NVidia 390 driver is still available in unstable:

zira:~> apt-show-versions -a nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver:amd64 390.157-6 install ok installed
No stable version
No stable-updates version
No testing version
nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver:amd64 390.157-8 unstable ftp.debian.org
No experimental version
nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver:amd64/unstable 390.157-6 upgradeable to 390.157-8

I suppose that you can use it even with Debian 12 (I haven't checked
the dependencies, though), but you need to request the unstable
packages in your sources.list file.

--
Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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On 2024-08-02 14:55:31 +0200, Franco Martelli wrote:

Sorry but have you read that bug report (#1076561)? Some users has posted solutions to make smaller the initrd file:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1076561#10
and
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1076561#48

Increasing the compression by using lzma with compression level 9
improves the situation (I'm wondering why this isn't the default,
given the fact that many users do not have a large /boot partition)
with no visible drawback. Compression is slower, but this is not
something one does often. However, the initrd.* file is still
significantly larger (by 20 MB) than previously.

And according to the documentation, the difference between
MODULES=most (default) and MODULES=dep concerns the filesystem
and harddrive drivers, while I was concerned by the drivers for
the Nvidia cards.

--
Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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