• info is not dead

    From songbird@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 23 14:20:01 2024
    i run debian testing most of the time with bits of
    unstable (firefox).

    once in a while i want more detail than man pages
    supply and so i reach for info pages instead.

    if you've never explored info pages in general
    you can just start with the command "info".

    this is just a tidbit for those who wander once in
    a while into strange realms... :)


    songbird

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  • From Nate Bargmann@21:1/5 to songbird on Tue Jul 23 18:40:01 2024
    * On 2024 23 Jul 07:18 -0500, songbird wrote:
    i run debian testing most of the time with bits of
    unstable (firefox).

    once in a while i want more detail than man pages
    supply and so i reach for info pages instead.

    if you've never explored info pages in general
    you can just start with the command "info".

    this is just a tidbit for those who wander once in
    a while into strange realms... :)

    The GNU info documentation is really intended to be read in Emacs where
    some nice formatting is done in the GUI Emacs version. The stand alone
    GNU info browser is rather obtuse. I found a much better option to be
    the independent pinfo (Debian package of the same name) browser which
    provides navigation up and down through the document using Lynx style
    key bindings. If pinfo doesn't find an info document it will open a man
    page when one is available.

    - Nate

    --
    "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
    possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
    Web: https://www.n0nb.us
    Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
    GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819


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  • From Nate Bargmann@21:1/5 to mick.crane on Wed Jul 24 12:50:09 2024
    * On 2024 23 Jul 11:53 -0500, mick.crane wrote:
    On 2024-07-23 13:03, songbird wrote:
    i run debian testing most of the time with bits of
    unstable (firefox).

    once in a while i want more detail than man pages
    supply and so i reach for info pages instead.

    if you've never explored info pages in general
    you can just start with the command "info".

    this is just a tidbit for those who wander once in
    a while into strange realms... :)


    apropos is sometimes handy if you can't remember what a thing is called

    apropos searches a database constructed from the NAME section of manual
    pages and returns results only from text in that section and only from
    manual pages. It is independent of info documents. An index (the 'dir'
    page) of info documents may be seen by running either info or pinfo
    without commandline arguments or from within Emacs.

    - Nate

    --
    "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
    possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
    Web: https://www.n0nb.us
    Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
    GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819


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  • From Oliver Schode@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jul 25 14:50:01 2024
    On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 11:13:47 -0500 Nate Bargmann <[email protected]> wrote:

    where some nice formatting is done in the GUI Emacs version. The
    stand alone GNU info browser is rather obtuse. I found a much better
    option to be the independent pinfo (Debian package of the same name)
    browser which provides navigation up and down through the document
    using Lynx style key bindings. If pinfo doesn't find an info document
    it will open a man page when one is available.

    I'll just second that, haven't had GNU info installed on any system in
    the last 15 years. Never grew comfortable with it, it's about twice the
    size of pinfo, with the latter being rather idiosyncratic in its own
    ways and a little buggy. Surely it never was supposed to do more than
    fill this gap, and as far as I know this is all there is, if you don't
    feel like using a clunky Tk GUI. Well actually, vim can do it too, a
    simple plugin is included in Debian's vim-scripts package already, but
    as I recollect you'd still need default info, that's what made me go
    for pinfo once.

    To be honest I'm not happy with the info format still being around,
    precisely because sometimes man pages don't cut it, and we should have something better by now. On the other hand, and I'll make no bones
    about it, so called chatbots turned out to be extremely useful
    (overused) for me in that respect and are now doing enough of the job
    for about 80% of the time. You just can't beat that for speed or
    convenience, and when is there no internet connection.

    Regards,
    Oliver

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  • From Nate Bargmann@21:1/5 to Oliver Schode on Sat Jul 27 15:10:02 2024
    * On 2024 25 Jul 07:48 -0500, Oliver Schode wrote:
    To be honest I'm not happy with the info format still being around,
    precisely because sometimes man pages don't cut it, and we should have something better by now. On the other hand, and I'll make no bones
    about it, so called chatbots turned out to be extremely useful
    (overused) for me in that respect and are now doing enough of the job
    for about 80% of the time. You just can't beat that for speed or
    convenience, and when is there no internet connection.

    The info format is generated from a source document format GNU calls
    texinfo that is a subset (superset?) of Tex. The info files are just
    one of several formats that can be generated from the Texinfo source.
    Other popular formats are HTML, Post Script, and PDF. Sometimes these
    latter formats are included in a *-doc package of GNU software and
    sometimes not. All are usually available from the related GNU Web site.
    I typically will search for an HTML version of a GNU manual. The only
    problem is that what is found online are the latest versions and Debian
    Stable packages may be a version or two behind.

    Texinfo is from a time when GNU documentation was only man pages or flat
    text files and something "better" was desired for moving through a
    manual in what is now known as a hypertext format. It also includes a
    lot of semantic markup rather than the basics forms of emphasis included
    in HTML. It is actually a rather capable format it's just that the info
    format and the info utility intended for terminal display throw nearly
    all of that away.

    - Nate

    --
    "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
    possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
    Web: https://www.n0nb.us
    Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
    GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819


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  • From David@21:1/5 to Jaap van Wingerde on Sat Jul 27 21:20:01 2024
    On Sat, 2024-07-27 at 19:04 +0000, Jaap van Wingerde wrote:


    Nate Bargmann <[email protected]> schreef op 27 juli 2024 13:00:17 UTC:

    I typically will search for an HTML version of a GNU manual.  The
    only
    problem is that what is found online are the latest versions and
    Debian
    Stable packages may be a version or two behind.
    It's a pity that besides 'manpages.debian.org',
    'infopages.debian.org' doesn't exist.

    I find pinfo works just fine for my purposes.
    It handles links, and info files have far more information to them than
    the often cryptic man pages.
    Cheers!

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  • From Jaap van Wingerde@21:1/5 to Nate Bargmann on Sat Jul 27 21:20:01 2024
    Nate Bargmann <[email protected]> schreef op 27 juli 2024 13:00:17 UTC:

    I typically will search for an HTML version of a GNU manual. The only >problem is that what is found online are the latest versions and Debian >Stable packages may be a version or two behind.
    It's a pity that besides 'manpages.debian.org', 'infopages.debian.org' doesn't exist.

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  • From Vincent Lefevre@21:1/5 to Nate Bargmann on Sun Jul 28 02:10:01 2024
    On 2024-07-23 11:13:47 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
    The GNU info documentation is really intended to be read in Emacs where
    some nice formatting is done in the GUI Emacs version. The stand alone
    GNU info browser is rather obtuse. I found a much better option to be
    the independent pinfo (Debian package of the same name) browser which provides navigation up and down through the document using Lynx style
    key bindings. If pinfo doesn't find an info document it will open a man
    page when one is available.

    But for searching, how can one get the previous match with pinfo?
    (info has { and } to navigate through the matches, Lynx has n and N,
    but what about pinfo?)

    --
    Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
    100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
    Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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  • From David Wright@21:1/5 to Vincent Lefevre on Sun Jul 28 07:10:01 2024
    On Sun 28 Jul 2024 at 02:06:38 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
    On 2024-07-23 11:13:47 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
    The GNU info documentation is really intended to be read in Emacs where some nice formatting is done in the GUI Emacs version. The stand alone
    GNU info browser is rather obtuse. I found a much better option to be
    the independent pinfo (Debian package of the same name) browser which provides navigation up and down through the document using Lynx style
    key bindings. If pinfo doesn't find an info document it will open a man page when one is available.

    But for searching, how can one get the previous match with pinfo?
    (info has { and } to navigate through the matches, Lynx has n and N,
    but what about pinfo?)

    I think you define KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 to whichever keystroke you want.
    (AIUI it has no default already defined in /etc/.pinforc)

    Cheers,
    David.

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  • From Vincent Lefevre@21:1/5 to David Wright on Sun Jul 28 16:30:01 2024
    On 2024-07-28 00:08:51 -0500, David Wright wrote:
    On Sun 28 Jul 2024 at 02:06:38 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
    On 2024-07-23 11:13:47 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
    The GNU info documentation is really intended to be read in Emacs where some nice formatting is done in the GUI Emacs version. The stand alone GNU info browser is rather obtuse. I found a much better option to be the independent pinfo (Debian package of the same name) browser which provides navigation up and down through the document using Lynx style
    key bindings. If pinfo doesn't find an info document it will open a man page when one is available.

    But for searching, how can one get the previous match with pinfo?
    (info has { and } to navigate through the matches, Lynx has n and N,
    but what about pinfo?)

    I think you define KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 to whichever keystroke you want.
    (AIUI it has no default already defined in /etc/.pinforc)

    KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 gives the *next* match, not the previous one.

    --
    Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
    100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
    Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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  • From David Wright@21:1/5 to Vincent Lefevre on Mon Jul 29 06:00:02 2024
    On Sun 28 Jul 2024 at 16:23:48 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
    On 2024-07-28 00:08:51 -0500, David Wright wrote:
    On Sun 28 Jul 2024 at 02:06:38 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
    On 2024-07-23 11:13:47 -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
    The GNU info documentation is really intended to be read in Emacs where some nice formatting is done in the GUI Emacs version. The stand alone GNU info browser is rather obtuse. I found a much better option to be the independent pinfo (Debian package of the same name) browser which provides navigation up and down through the document using Lynx style key bindings. If pinfo doesn't find an info document it will open a man
    page when one is available.

    But for searching, how can one get the previous match with pinfo?
    (info has { and } to navigate through the matches, Lynx has n and N,
    but what about pinfo?)

    I think you define KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 to whichever keystroke you want. (AIUI it has no default already defined in /etc/.pinforc)

    KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 gives the *next* match, not the previous one.

    Sorry, yes, I think it helps to be able to subconciously count (but
    avoid being afflicted by OCD), and press Home and n-1 SearchAgains.
    (Even more tedious than searching backwards and forwards in xpdf,
    where you have to toggle a button.)

    Wishlist bug?

    Cheers,
    David.

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  • From Vincent Lefevre@21:1/5 to David Wright on Tue Jul 30 13:20:02 2024
    On 2024-07-28 22:49:43 -0500, David Wright wrote:
    On Sun 28 Jul 2024 at 16:23:48 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
    On 2024-07-28 00:08:51 -0500, David Wright wrote:
    On Sun 28 Jul 2024 at 02:06:38 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
    But for searching, how can one get the previous match with pinfo?
    (info has { and } to navigate through the matches, Lynx has n and N, but what about pinfo?)

    I think you define KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 to whichever keystroke you want. (AIUI it has no default already defined in /etc/.pinforc)

    KEY_SEARCH_AGAIN_1 gives the *next* match, not the previous one.

    Sorry, yes, I think it helps to be able to subconciously count (but
    avoid being afflicted by OCD), and press Home and n-1 SearchAgains.
    (Even more tedious than searching backwards and forwards in xpdf,
    where you have to toggle a button.)

    Wishlist bug?

    There's one upstream: https://github.com/baszoetekouw/pinfo/issues/22
    (but no activity in the repository for the last 3 years).

    --
    Vincent Lef�vre <[email protected]> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
    100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
    Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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