• tbird troubles

    From gene heskett@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 15 14:30:01 2024
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of
    the gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2
    separate workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of
    working, but quitting one actually quits both.

    If I click anyplace outside this composer window, it put this composer
    window behind both gui's and to re-find the composer window, I have to
    move both gui's off it to find the composer window again. Frustrating
    and inconvenient as can be.

    I am supposedly running xfc4 as a desktop, but htop says I have a heck
    of a lot of kde5 running. How do I get rid of the kde stuff?
    Dependencies seem to be protecting it from being removed.

    Anybody have a clue whats going on?

    Thanks for any advice that works.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Mon Apr 15 15:10:01 2024
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the
    gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it? Are you clicking something? Are you DOUBLE-clicking something?

    How do you quit one of them? Do you click an X or similar widget in
    the window manager decorations, or do you use something like "File ->
    Exit" from a menu?

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Mon Apr 15 16:10:02 2024
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the
    gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate >> workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but
    quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it? Are you clicking something? Are you DOUBLE-clicking something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu.

    How do you quit one of them? Do you click an X or similar widget in
    the window manager decorations, or do you use something like "File ->
    Exit" from a menu?

    Doesn't make any diff, I can click on the upper right quit button or
    from the tbird pull down menu. Either method quits both copies.

    Thanks Greg.

    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From Charles Curley@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Mon Apr 15 16:20:01 2024
    On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:28:24 -0400
    gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am supposedly running xfc4 as a desktop, but htop says I have a
    heck of a lot of kde5 running. How do I get rid of the kde stuff? Dependencies seem to be protecting it from being removed.

    You probably are running one or more programs that use KDE rather than
    gnome libraries. They cohabit nicely. I use XFCE and routinely run
    several KDE programs. Don't worry about it unless you are constrained
    by memory or other resources.

    --
    Does anybody read signatures any more?

    https://charlescurley.com
    https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Mon Apr 15 17:00:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 10:01, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the >>> gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate >>> workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but
    quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it?  Are you clicking something?  Are you DOUBLE-clicking
    something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu.

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens.

    --
    My signature has gone AWOL again.

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 15 18:50:01 2024
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 10:59:25AM -0400, [email protected] wrote:
    On 4/15/24 10:01, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the
    gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate
    workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it?� Are you clicking something?� Are you DOUBLE-clicking
    something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu.

    I'm wondering whether Gene's mouse might be physically failing, and
    sending multiple click events when he presses the button once. This
    is one of the possible failure modes for mouse buttons.

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens.

    Yes, that's a reasonable thing to try.

    To see whether the mouse button might be misbehaving, Gene could try
    running xev, and slowly clicking the (left) mouse button inside the
    xev window. There should be exactly one press event, and one release
    event, each time the button is clicked, regardless of how long it's
    held down.

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  • From Bret Busby@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Mon Apr 15 19:30:01 2024
    On 16/4/24 00:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 10:59:25AM -0400, [email protected] wrote:
    On 4/15/24 10:01, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the >>>>> gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate
    workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but >>>>> quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it?  Are you clicking something?  Are you DOUBLE-clicking
    something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu.

    I'm wondering whether Gene's mouse might be physically failing, and
    sending multiple click events when he presses the button once. This
    is one of the possible failure modes for mouse buttons.

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens.

    Yes, that's a reasonable thing to try.

    To see whether the mouse button might be misbehaving, Gene could try
    running xev, and slowly clicking the (left) mouse button inside the
    xev window. There should be exactly one press event, and one release
    event, each time the button is clicked, regardless of how long it's
    I think that, from memory, a utility for adjusting the mouse click
    speed, also is available, for adjusting the mouse click speed.

    ....
    Bret Busby
    Armadale
    Western Australia
    (UTC+0800)
    .................

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  • From Matthew Lemon@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Mon Apr 15 20:10:02 2024
    On 15-04-2024, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of
    the gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 >separate workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of
    working, but quitting one actually quits both.

    If I click anyplace outside this composer window, it put this composer >window behind both gui's and to re-find the composer window, I have to
    move both gui's off it to find the composer window again. Frustrating
    and inconvenient as can be.

    I am supposedly running xfc4 as a desktop, but htop says I have a heck
    of a lot of kde5 running. How do I get rid of the kde stuff?

    I recently wanted to get rid of a load of KDE cruft after I installed
    xfce and elected to install sddm desktop manager with it (which is xorg
    and a wayland session compatible), which by default seems to come with a
    lot of KDE stuff in Debian.

    `aptitude purge '?and(~i ?tag(suite::kde))'`

    Be sure to check the output from aptitude you before it does
    anything, it will ask you to confirm package changes. YMMV but it worked
    nicely for me.

    Dependencies seem to be protecting it from being removed.

    Anybody have a clue whats going on?

    Thanks for any advice that works.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis


    --
    ---
    MR Lemon

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Charles Curley on Mon Apr 15 21:10:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 10:13, Charles Curley wrote:
    On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:28:24 -0400
    gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am supposedly running xfc4 as a desktop, but htop says I have a
    heck of a lot of kde5 running. How do I get rid of the kde stuff?
    Dependencies seem to be protecting it from being removed.

    You probably are running one or more programs that use KDE rather than
    gnome libraries. They cohabit nicely. I use XFCE and routinely run
    several KDE programs. Don't worry about it unless you are constrained
    by memory or other resources.
    32 gigs of memory. But the constraint is a 30-45 second delay in opening
    a new write path to nv storage. This totally disables digikam's ability
    to import from my camera as it won't wait. Shotwell works, but with
    several of these delays, gimp suffers as I wade thru the system looking
    for an image I want to smunch down to mailable size. Same story for a
    firefox download. I'm waiting on trixie to see if it installs and fixes
    that. The whole machine is effectively frozen while whatever is timing out.

    This install is about the 25th install of bookworm and has been a PITA
    ootb because the installer, on finding a usb-serial adapter,
    automatically installs orca and ttysomething to drive a teletype.
    thinking the user is blind. Have you ever tried to use a computer that's screaming every keystroke you enter at you? Makes the computer worthless
    to me. This install works because someone took pity on me way back then
    and told me to unplug all the usb stuff.

    Yes I have serial adapters, I have and have had for 40 years, a
    housefull of X10 stuff, but that does not mean I'm blind. The installer
    should ask if I wanted it, it did not.

    Thanks Charles.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From Roy J. Tellason, Sr.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 15 21:20:01 2024
    On Monday 15 April 2024 10:13:06 am Charles Curley wrote:
    On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 08:28:24 -0400
    gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am supposedly running xfc4 as a desktop, but htop says I have a
    heck of a lot of kde5 running. How do I get rid of the kde stuff? Dependencies seem to be protecting it from being removed.

    You probably are running one or more programs that use KDE rather than
    gnome libraries. They cohabit nicely. I use XFCE and routinely run
    several KDE programs. Don't worry about it unless you are constrained
    by memory or other resources.

    For whatever it's worth, I too am running xfce as a desktop environment, and do have some KDE stuff installed so therefore am seeing some of those files in place as well. It's not been a problem for me so far...


    --
    Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
    ablest -- form of life in this section of space, �a critter that can
    be killed but can't be tamed. �--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
    -
    Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 15 21:20:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 11:00, [email protected] wrote:
    On 4/15/24 10:01, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies
    of the
    gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2
    separate
    workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but >>>> quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it?  Are you clicking something?  Are you
    DOUBLE-clicking
    something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu.

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens.

    Stopped it. opened an xfce4 terminal and typed "thunderbird"enter, same
    old same old, two gui's stacked on top of each other.
    --
    My signature has gone AWOL again.
    So has the /n,-,-," "/n sig separater.

    Thanks Eben

    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Mon Apr 15 21:30:02 2024
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 03:10:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

    [...]

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens.

    Stopped it. opened an xfce4 terminal and typed "thunderbird"enter, same old same old, two gui's stacked on top of each other.

    This, at least, rules out the mouse.

    OK, asking my favourite search thingy (spoiler: it's not that one
    with the big G) for 'thunderbird "two windows"' yields a couple of
    promising hits (no time to peruse them right now, sorry):

    https://forum.manjaro.org/t/thunderbird-two-windows-workaround/154069
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531588
    http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1962329
    https://blog.ueffing.net/post/2018/03/24/thunderbird-starts-with-two-window-instances/

    At least, you don't seem to be the only one having the fun :)

    HTH
    --
    tomás

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Mon Apr 15 21:40:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 12:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 10:59:25AM -0400, [email protected] wrote:
    On 4/15/24 10:01, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the >>>>> gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate
    workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but >>>>> quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it?  Are you clicking something?  Are you DOUBLE-clicking
    something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu.

    I'm wondering whether Gene's mouse might be physically failing, and
    sending multiple click events when he presses the button once. This
    is one of the possible failure modes for mouse buttons.

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens.

    Yes, that's a reasonable thing to try.

    To see whether the mouse button might be misbehaving, Gene could try
    running xev, and slowly clicking the (left) mouse button inside the
    xev window. There should be exactly one press event, and one release
    event, each time the button is clicked, regardless of how long it's
    held down.

    .
    nothing registers on the xev screen but the bacckground terminal goes
    bat shit nuts. I've had keyboard problems, could I be using two usb
    buttons that are rxing both keyboard and mouse? Except this keyboard is
    a wired usb keyboard, I just unplugged the mouse button and it
    dissappeared, and two buttons were plugged in so I'v now removed the one
    that did not rx the mouse. But that will not effect my dual tbird
    session started from the keyboard which is wired.

    Thanks Greg.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Matthew Lemon on Mon Apr 15 21:40:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 14:01, Matthew Lemon wrote:
    aptitude purge '?and(~i ?tag(suite::kde))'
    I thought it was installed, but apparently is not.
    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to David Wright on Mon Apr 15 21:50:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 14:24, David Wright wrote:
    On Tue 16 Apr 2024 at 01:20:03 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote:
    On 16/4/24 00:49, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 10:59:25AM -0400, [email protected] wrote:
    On 4/15/24 10:01, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/15/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:28:24AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of the
    gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate
    workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of working, but >>>>>>> quitting one actually quits both.

    How do you launch it?  Are you clicking something?  Are you DOUBLE-clicking
    something?

    A single click on the name from the internet section of the xfce menu. >>>
    I'm wondering whether Gene's mouse might be physically failing, and
    sending multiple click events when he presses the button once. This
    is one of the possible failure modes for mouse buttons.

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens. >>>
    Yes, that's a reasonable thing to try.

    To see whether the mouse button might be misbehaving, Gene could try
    running xev, and slowly clicking the (left) mouse button inside the
    xev window. There should be exactly one press event, and one release
    event, each time the button is clicked, regardless of how long it's
    I think that, from memory, a utility for adjusting the mouse click
    speed, also is available, for adjusting the mouse click speed.

    I don't think double-click speed can be used to debounce the mouse
    button, because it lengthens the time interval that two clicks are interpreted as a double-click. It can't turn two quick clicks into
    a single click.

    I have a mouse that can turn one long press into two clicks: what's
    happening is that the wire loses continuity for a moment. I can see
    the xconsole logging a "New" USB device being connected, as it occurs.
    When it's bad, moving the mouse produces a stream of such logs.

    But I would recommend Gene start tbird from a command line, to
    distinguish a tbird configuration fault from a menu action fault.

    Cheers,
    David.

    I get exactly the same thing from a keyboard launch, David. Thanks.
    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 15 23:20:01 2024
    On 4/15/24 15:26, [email protected] wrote:
    On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 03:10:20PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

    [...]

    Try running "thunderbird" from a terminal emulator and see what happens. >>>
    Stopped it. opened an xfce4 terminal and typed "thunderbird"enter, same old >> same old, two gui's stacked on top of each other.

    This, at least, rules out the mouse.

    OK, asking my favourite search thingy (spoiler: it's not that one
    with the big G) for 'thunderbird "two windows"' yields a couple of
    promising hits (no time to peruse them right now, sorry):

    https://forum.manjaro.org/t/thunderbird-two-windows-workaround/154069
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531588
    http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1962329
    https://blog.ueffing.net/post/2018/03/24/thunderbird-starts-with-two-window-instances/

    That for a change actually makes me feel better. I seem to be the only
    one with much of this. I /think/ this started with the last tbird
    update, but I don't have a bible to swear on.

    At least, you don't seem to be the only one having the fun :)

    HTH
    Thanks Tomas.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From Michel Verdier@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Tue Apr 16 09:10:01 2024
    On 2024-04-15, gene heskett wrote:

    32 gigs of memory. But the constraint is a 30-45 second delay in opening a new
    write path to nv storage. This totally disables digikam's ability to import

    digikam is a kde application, so you need the kde stuff at least for it.
    I use it too, have less memory, and still have no delay problems.

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Curt on Tue Apr 16 16:30:02 2024
    On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 02:21:27PM -0000, Curt wrote:
    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window makes the
    other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the same
    result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the application's Exit
    menu choice.

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  • From Curt@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Tue Apr 16 16:30:01 2024
    On 2024-04-15, gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of
    the gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2 separate workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of
    working, but quitting one actually quits both.


    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curt@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Tue Apr 16 17:00:01 2024
    On 2024-04-16, Greg Wooledge <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 02:21:27PM -0000, Curt wrote:
    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window makes the
    other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the same
    result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the application's Exit
    menu choice.



    I see. An Internet enquiry into the multiple-window problem produces many hits, some of them over a decade old.

    The most recent I've found (Dec 2023), advises simply creating another
    profile and copying the old one over to the new one.

    https://forum.manjaro.org/t/thunderbird-two-windows-workaround/154069

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Wanderer@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Tue Apr 16 16:50:01 2024
    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
    On 2024-04-16 at 10:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

    On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 02:21:27PM -0000, Curt wrote:

    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window makes
    the other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the same
    result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the application's
    Exit menu choice.

    From what I saw in a Bugzilla bug report (which I think was linked to in
    this thread?) about a similar behavior (dating back a good number of
    years, and closed as - more or less - "not meaningfully fixable" or the
    like), neither of those is what is needed.

    What needs to happen, according to that analysis, is to close one of the windows not by File -> Exit or File -> Quit, but by File -> Close. (In
    my - severely obsolete - Thunderbird version, it's near the top of the
    File menu, and has the associated keyboard shortcut Ctrl+W.)

    Reportedly, after doing that, if you then quit the program entirely (by
    any of the other available methods), when you re-launch it it will come
    up with only one window.

    The situation appears to be triggered by doing one of the UI actions
    that causes Thunderbird to open a new "main" window - which can happen
    by accident, e.g. by trying to detach a tab from the main Thunderbird
    window (which apparently doesn't open a new window with just that tab,
    but rather opens an entire new main Thunderbird window with the contents
    of that tab active). That in turn can (I would expect) be done
    accidentally by trying to drag a tab to a new position in the tab bar,
    but unintentionally dropping it at a place which is instead treated as
    outside of the window.

    --
    The Wanderer

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
    persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
    progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw


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  • From Curt@21:1/5 to The Wanderer on Tue Apr 16 17:20:02 2024
    On 2024-04-16, The Wanderer <[email protected]> wrote:

    What needs to happen, according to that analysis, is to close one of the windows not by File -> Exit or File -> Quit, but by File -> Close. (In
    my - severely obsolete - Thunderbird version, it's near the top of the
    File menu, and has the associated keyboard shortcut Ctrl+W.)


    Yes, that's the "solution" I attempted to describe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to The Wanderer on Tue Apr 16 18:20:01 2024
    On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 10:39:42AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
    On 2024-04-16 at 10:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

    On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 02:21:27PM -0000, Curt wrote:

    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window makes
    the other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the same result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the application's
    Exit menu choice.

    From what I saw in a Bugzilla bug report [...]

    Thanks for actually reading the links for us -- I was too deep
    in some ugly PHP code to do it myself ATM.

    Makes sense, TB seems to remember its window configuration [1] when
    closing, like its cousin but seems to remember "I had *two* windows
    last time around", quite unlike its cousin.

    Cheers

    [1] Can't they just let the window manager do its job?

    --
    t

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to The Wanderer on Tue Apr 16 23:00:01 2024
    On 4/16/24 10:46, The Wanderer wrote:
    On 2024-04-16 at 10:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

    On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 02:21:27PM -0000, Curt wrote:

    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window makes
    the other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the same
    result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the application's
    Exit menu choice.

    From what I saw in a Bugzilla bug report (which I think was linked to in this thread?) about a similar behavior (dating back a good number of
    years, and closed as - more or less - "not meaningfully fixable" or the like), neither of those is what is needed.

    What needs to happen, according to that analysis, is to close one of the windows not by File -> Exit or File -> Quit, but by File -> Close. (In
    my - severely obsolete - Thunderbird version, it's near the top of the
    File menu, and has the associated keyboard shortcut Ctrl+W.)

    Reportedly, after doing that, if you then quit the program entirely (by
    any of the other available methods), when you re-launch it it will come
    up with only one window.

    Thank you, that fixed it!

    The situation appears to be triggered by doing one of the UI actions
    that causes Thunderbird to open a new "main" window - which can happen
    by accident, e.g. by trying to detach a tab from the main Thunderbird
    window (which apparently doesn't open a new window with just that tab,
    but rather opens an entire new main Thunderbird window with the contents
    of that tab active). That in turn can (I would expect) be done
    accidentally by trying to drag a tab to a new position in the tab bar,
    but unintentionally dropping it at a place which is instead treated as outside of the window.


    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Curt on Tue Apr 16 23:00:01 2024
    On 4/16/24 10:22, Curt wrote:
    On 2024-04-15, gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of
    the gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2
    separate workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of
    working, but quitting one actually quits both.


    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    .
    From scratch, including a text entry in a shell.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Curt@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Wed Apr 17 17:00:01 2024
    On 2024-04-16, gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/16/24 10:22, Curt wrote:
    On 2024-04-15, gene heskett <[email protected]> wrote:
    For the last 2 or 3 reboots, when launching t-bird, I get 2 copies of
    the gui stacked on top of each other. I can move them separately to 2
    separate workspaces, and both appear to work for some definition of
    working, but quitting one actually quits both.


    Have you tried *closing* one of the two windows, *quitting* the
    remaining one, and then restarting your bird?

    .
    From scratch, including a text entry in a shell.

    What I meant is what the Wanderer elaborated with further
    detail and clarity, working from the same bug report.

    "Closing" the window of one of the supernumerary windows, and "quitting" (exiting the mofo in the canonical manner) of the application with the remaining one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Wanderer@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Wed Apr 17 21:00:01 2024
    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
    On 2024-04-16 at 16:56, gene heskett wrote:

    On 4/16/24 10:46, The Wanderer wrote:

    On 2024-04-16 at 10:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window
    makes the other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the
    same result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the
    application's Exit menu choice.

    From what I saw in a Bugzilla bug report (which I think was linked
    to in this thread?) about a similar behavior (dating back a good
    number of years, and closed as - more or less - "not meaningfully
    fixable" or the like), neither of those is what is needed.

    What needs to happen, according to that analysis, is to close one
    of the windows not by File -> Exit or File -> Quit, but by File ->
    Close. (In my - severely obsolete - Thunderbird version, it's near
    the top of the File menu, and has the associated keyboard shortcut
    Ctrl+W.)

    Reportedly, after doing that, if you then quit the program entirely
    (by any of the other available methods), when you re-launch it it
    will come up with only one window.

    Thank you, that fixed it!

    You're welcome.

    Please extend your thanks to Tomas, who is the one who tracked down the
    links that led to the bug report where I found the analysis and this
    advice, and also to Curt, who was giving the same recommendation in
    different terms before I got to it.

    All I did was read the discussion at the link Tomas provided, and find a different way to express it.

    --
    The Wanderer

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
    persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
    progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw


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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 17 23:10:01 2024
    On 4/17/24 14:52, The Wanderer wrote:
    On 2024-04-16 at 16:56, gene heskett wrote:

    On 4/16/24 10:46, The Wanderer wrote:

    On 2024-04-16 at 10:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

    In his original message, he claimed that closing one window
    makes the other one also close.

    I asked *how* he was closing them, and he said that he gets the
    same result whether he uses the WM's close button, or the
    application's Exit menu choice.

    From what I saw in a Bugzilla bug report (which I think was linked
    to in this thread?) about a similar behavior (dating back a good
    number of years, and closed as - more or less - "not meaningfully
    fixable" or the like), neither of those is what is needed.

    What needs to happen, according to that analysis, is to close one
    of the windows not by File -> Exit or File -> Quit, but by File ->
    Close. (In my - severely obsolete - Thunderbird version, it's near
    the top of the File menu, and has the associated keyboard shortcut
    Ctrl+W.)

    Reportedly, after doing that, if you then quit the program entirely
    (by any of the other available methods), when you re-launch it it
    will come up with only one window.

    Thank you, that fixed it!

    You're welcome.

    Please extend your thanks to Tomas, who is the one who tracked down the
    links that led to the bug report where I found the analysis and this
    advice, and also to Curt, who was giving the same recommendation in
    different terms before I got to it.

    Terms I may not have adequately understood, like Winston Churchill is
    reported to have once said about England and America, "two great
    countries separated by a common language." or words to that effect. So
    my thanks to all who contributed, in what they thought was my mother tongue.

    Also, many thanks to those whose mother tongue is not English, for
    learning English. My schooling did not last long enough to have a
    chance to learn yours. My schooling ceased shortly after the 8h grade as
    I went to work fixing the then new-fangled things called tv's for a
    living in 1947. Mother gave me one very valuable thing, a near genius
    IQ. My employment history is widely varied. The tv cameras that were on
    the Trieste when it went down in the mohole in 1960, had my fingerprints
    in them. Now retired for 22 years from an 18 years stint in CE office at
    a tv station, I'm still working in the bleeding edge of 3d printing
    despite hoping to have 2 of my own design working by my 90th. Many many
    thanks to those who have helped.

    Take care and stay well all.

    All I did was read the discussion at the link Tomas provided, and find a different way to express it.


    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Thu Apr 18 07:00:01 2024
    On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 05:00:05PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
    On 4/17/24 14:52, The Wanderer wrote:

    [...]

    You're welcome.

    Please extend your thanks to Tomas, who is the one who tracked down the links that led to the bug report where I found the analysis and this advice, and also to Curt, who was giving the same recommendation in different terms before I got to it [...]

    Heh. Actually, this was a beautiful example of collaborative pondering.

    It was eben's hint to start the thing from the command line and you
    reporting the results (still two windows) what set me off to go with
    the right terms to the search engine.

    [...]

    Also, many thanks to those whose mother tongue is not English, for learning English [...]

    Actually I'm thankful for having got the chance to learn a couple of
    languages. It has been a lot of fun. And also to you folks who put up
    with my mediocre English.

    Cheers
    --
    t

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  • From Curt@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Apr 18 16:20:02 2024
    On 2024-04-18, <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:



    Actually I'm thankful for having got the chance to learn a couple of languages. It has been a lot of fun. And also to you folks who put up
    with my mediocre English.


    I'm thankful to have learned enough French to have read the Proust book
    (la Recherche...).

    It's remarkable and beautiful and intelligent in too many ways to
    describe here (and funny, too). It kind of *is* literature. You need
    look no further.

    I've heard that Freud was a really good writer in German. But I fear I
    lack the time and energy for that task.

    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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