• on continuing to wait

    From Sean Whitton@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 7 06:20:01 2025
    Dear Joerg,

    In your message, you're asking Ian to accept that the work from the
    ftpmaster side will be completed, and so raising the threat of a GR is
    not appropriate.

    Please put yourself in our shoes, and consider whether this is a
    reasonable thing to ask Ian to accept, in these circumstances.

    So far from the FTP side:

    - you have done 1--2 hours of work coming up with the compromise

    - you said you would write some code, but have ignored our requests for
    updates, while being otherwise active in Debian

    - not a single line of code has actually been written

    - all other FTP team members are either silent, or have made various
    disparaging remarks and comments.

    ... in eight months (or 4.5 years depending on how you look at it).

    This isn't normal. Please try to see that.

    --
    Sean Whitton

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joerg Jaspert@21:1/5 to Sean Whitton on Mon Apr 7 17:20:02 2025
    On 17557 March 1977, Sean Whitton wrote:

    - not a single line of code has actually been written

    Wrong.

    There *is* actual code written on it. It's even on salsa in the dak
    repo. (Also, not by me).

    It's still wip, but its ongoing. How much during the *work* week, we
    will see, can't promise (especially not ansgars time).

    --
    bye, Joerg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to Joerg Jaspert on Mon Apr 7 18:10:02 2025
    Joerg Jaspert writes ("Re: on continuing to wait"):
    On 17557 March 1977, Sean Whitton wrote:
    - not a single line of code has actually been written

    Wrong.

    There *is* actual code written on it. It's even on salsa in the dak
    repo. (Also, not by me).

    Great. Can you point me at it? I looked at the #master branch [1]
    and didn't see anything that looked relevant.

    Perhsps I missed it in the git log? There seems to be a good deal of
    unrelated cleanup/CI work going on. Recently I see the addition of
    `black`, `isort`, `ruff` which I think are all QA tools.

    The diffstat since 15.3.2025 [2] shows (see full diffstat below):
    211 files changed, 13672 insertions(+), 7575 deletions(-)

    It seems like dak has been under heavy development/overhaul since
    around 29.3.2025.

    Ian.

    [1]
    https://salsa.debian.org/ftp-team/dak/-/tree/master?ref_type=heads
    be41afb8aac81c9587a51341fc2444da810e2093

    [2]
    15.3.2005 since that's when we sent the request for key installation.
    AFAICT from the branch structure, at that date 'master was
    probably df7985118fc5dc16637edbcc671694b8c901f7d0

    $ git-diff --stat df7985118fc5dc16637edbcc671694b8c901f7d0..master
    .gitlab-ci.yml | 24 +
    alembic/env.py | 13 +-
    config/debian-security/generate-archive-key.conf | 2 +-
    config/debian/generate-archive-key.conf | 2 +-
    dak/acl.py | 122 +-
    dak/add_user.py | 82 +-
    dak/admin.py | 575 +++++---
    dak/archive_dedup_pool.py | 45 +-
    dak/auto_decruft.py | 194 ++-
    dak/bts_categorize.py | 74 +-
    dak/check_archive.py | 213 ++-
    dak/check_overrides.py | 349 +++--
    dak/clean_queues.py | 77 +-
    dak/clean_suites.py | 157 ++-
    dak/contents.py | 81 +-
    dak/control_overrides.py | 212 ++-
    dak/control_suite.py | 284 +++-
    dak/copy_installer.py | 70 +-
    dak/cruft_report.py | 360 +++--
    dak/dak.py | 215 ++-
    dak/dakdb/update100.py | 20 +-
    dak/dakdb/update101.py | 18 +-
    dak/dakdb/update102.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update103.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update104.py | 18 +-
    dak/dakdb/update105.py | 18 +-
    dak/dakdb/update106.py | 28 +-
    dak/dakdb/update107.py | 10 +-
    dak/dakdb/update108.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update109.py | 30 +-
    dak/dakdb/update110.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update111.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update112.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update113.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update114.py | 18 +-
    dak/dakdb/update115.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update116.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update117.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update118.py | 70 +-
    dak/dakdb/update119.py | 38 +-
    dak/dakdb/update120.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update121.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update122.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update123.py | 18 +-
    dak/dakdb/update124.py | 296 +++-
    dak/dakdb/update125.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update126.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update69.py | 19 +-
    dak/dakdb/update70.py | 74 +-
    dak/dakdb/update71.py | 21 +-
    dak/dakdb/update72.py | 27 +-
    dak/dakdb/update73.py | 32 +-
    dak/dakdb/update74.py | 9 +-
    dak/dakdb/update75.py | 157 ++-
    dak/dakdb/update76.py | 10 +-
    dak/dakdb/update77.py | 20 +-
    dak/dakdb/update78.py | 18 +-
    dak/dakdb/update79.py | 36 +-
    dak/dakdb/update80.py | 26 +-
    dak/dakdb/update81.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update82.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update83.py | 163 ++-
    dak/dakdb/update84.py | 27 +-
    dak/dakdb/update85.py | 10 +-
    dak/dakdb/update86.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update87.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update88.py | 10 +-
    dak/dakdb/update89.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update90.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update91.py | 24 +-
    dak/dakdb/update92.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update93.py | 16 +-
    dak/dakdb/update94.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update95.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update96.py | 12 +-
    dak/dakdb/update97.py | 14 +-
    dak/dakdb/update98.py | 32 +-
    dak/dakdb/update99.py | 31 +-
    dak/dominate.py | 103 +-
    dak/examine_package.py | 421 +++---
    dak/export.py | 39 +-
    dak/export_suite.py | 51 +-
    dak/external_overrides.py | 42 +-
    dak/find_files.py | 17 +-
    dak/generate_index_diffs.py | 119 +-
    dak/generate_packages_sources2.py | 181 ++-
    dak/generate_releases.py | 266 ++--
    dak/graph.py | 107 +-
    dak/graph_new.py | 14 +-
    dak/import.py | 343 +++--
    dak/import_keyring.py | 102 +-
    dak/import_repository.py | 205 ++-
    dak/import_users_from_passwd.py | 38 +-
    dak/init_dirs.py | 66 +-
    dak/ls.py | 84 +-
    dak/make_changelog.py | 151 ++-
    dak/make_maintainers.py | 78 +-
    dak/make_overrides.py | 67 +-
    dak/make_pkg_file_mapping.py | 17 +-
    dak/manage_build_queues.py | 97 +-
    dak/manage_debug_suites.py | 41 +-
    dak/manage_external_signature_requests.py | 44 +-
    dak/new_security_install.py | 87 +-
    dak/override.py | 106 +-
    dak/process_commands.py | 55 +-
    dak/process_new.py | 484 ++++---
    dak/process_policy.py | 337 +++--
    dak/process_upload.py | 234 ++--
    dak/queue_report.py | 385 ++++--
    dak/rm.py | 222 ++-
    dak/show_deferred.py | 155 ++-
    dak/show_new.py | 90 +-
    dak/stats.py | 265 ++--
    dak/transitions.py | 212 ++-
    dak/update_db.py | 107 +-
    dak/update_suite.py | 111 +-
    dak/write_sections.py | 7 +-
    daklib/announce.py | 166 ++-
    daklib/architecture.py | 40 +-
    daklib/archive.py | 803 ++++++++---
    daklib/checks.py | 782 +++++++----
    daklib/command.py | 382 ++++--
    daklib/compress.py | 8 +-
    daklib/config.py | 43 +-
    daklib/conftest.py | 5 +-
    daklib/contents.py | 330 +++--
    daklib/cruft.py | 161 ++-
    daklib/dak_exceptions.py | 12 +
    daklib/dakapt.py | 9 +-
    daklib/daklog.py | 19 +-
    daklib/dakmultiprocessing.py | 29 +-
    daklib/database/all.py | 3 +-
    daklib/database/architecture.py | 26 +-
    daklib/database/base.py | 29 +-
    daklib/database/section.py | 24 +-
    daklib/database/test_architecture.py | 18 +-
    daklib/database/test_section.py | 16 +-
    daklib/dbconn.py | 1571 ++++++++++++++--------
    daklib/externalsignature.py | 90 +-
    daklib/filewriter.py | 84 +-
    daklib/formats.py | 8 +-
    daklib/fstransactions.py | 24 +-
    daklib/gpg.py | 161 ++-
    daklib/import_repository.py | 112 +-
    daklib/lintian.py | 29 +-
    daklib/ls.py | 125 +-
    daklib/mail.py | 27 +-
    daklib/packagelist.py | 54 +-
    daklib/pdiff.py | 219 +--
    daklib/policy.py | 197 ++-
    daklib/queue.py | 137 +-
    daklib/regexes.py | 58 +-
    daklib/rm.py | 217 ++-
    daklib/srcformats.py | 35 +-
    daklib/summarystats.py | 2 +-
    daklib/termcolor.py | 7 +-
    daklib/textutils.py | 13 +-
    daklib/upload.py | 281 ++--
    daklib/urgencylog.py | 24 +-
    daklib/utils.py | 593 +++++---
    dakweb/dakwebserver.py | 41 +-
    dakweb/queries/archive.py | 16 +-
    dakweb/queries/binary.py | 29 +-
    dakweb/queries/madison.py | 37 +-
    dakweb/queries/source.py | 110 +-
    dakweb/queries/suite.py | 53 +-
    dakweb/webregister.py | 10 +-
    docs/conf.py | 45 +-
    docs/import-into-debian-archive.txt | 89 +-
    pyproject.toml | 19 +
    scripts/debian/dep11-basic-validate.py | 179 ++-
    scripts/debian/generate-archive-key | 2 +-
    scripts/debian/link_morgue | 1 -
    setup.cfg | 2 +
    templates/process-new.bug | 22 +
    tests/base_test.py | 7 +-
    tests/db_test.py | 415 +++---
    tests/dbtest_all.py | 4 +-
    tests/dbtest_archive.py | 113 +-
    tests/dbtest_contents.py | 205 +--
    tests/dbtest_cruft.py | 99 +-
    tests/dbtest_debversion.py | 46 +-
    tests/dbtest_fingerprint.py | 35 +-
    tests/dbtest_metadata.py | 82 +-
    tests/dbtest_multiproc.py | 23 +-
    tests/dbtest_packages.py | 296 ++--
    tests/dbtest_session.py | 52 +-
    tests/dbtest_timestamps.py | 13 +-
    tests/test_architecture.py | 42 +-
    tests/test_copy_installer.py | 72 +-
    tests/test_daklib_dakapt.py | 5 +-
    tests/test_daklib_dbconn.py | 22 +-
    tests/test_daklib_fstransactions.py | 39 +-
    tests/test_daklib_upload.py | 28 +-
    tests/test_filewriter.py | 90 +-
    tests/test_fix_maintainer.py | 16 +-
    tests/test_formats.py | 36 +-
    tests/test_gpg.py | 64 +-
    tests/test_imports.py | 11 +-
    tests/test_lintian.py | 208 +--
    tests/test_multiprocessing.py | 49 +-
    tests/test_packagelist.py | 112 +-
    tests/test_parse_changes.py | 56 +-
    tests/test_pdiffs.py | 424 +++---
    tests/test_regexes.py | 76 +-
    tests/test_split_uploaders.py | 24 +-
    tests/test_srcformats.py | 126 +-
    tests/test_utils.py | 71 +-
    tools/logs.py | 73 +-
    tools/queue_rss.py | 132 +-
    tools/rm822.py | 52 +-
    211 files changed, 13672 insertions(+), 7575 deletions(-)


    --
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> These opinions are my own.

    Pronouns: they/he. If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk,
    that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joerg Jaspert@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Mon Apr 7 22:40:01 2025
    On 17557 March 1977, Ian Jackson wrote:

    - not a single line of code has actually been written
    Wrong.
    There *is* actual code written on it. It's even on salsa in the dak
    repo. (Also, not by me).
    Great. Can you point me at it? I looked at the #master branch [1]
    and didn't see anything that looked relevant.

    It's not yet ready, yes. It's currently in ansgars https://salsa.debian.org/ansgar/dak/-/commits/wip/tag2upload branch.

    daks master will see it last, as that is the branch we merge things in
    before code goes live (merge to deploy), so should only end up with code
    that we mean to deploy sometime soon.

    --
    bye, Joerg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sean Whitton@21:1/5 to Joerg Jaspert on Tue Apr 8 04:20:01 2025
    Hello,

    On Mon 07 Apr 2025 at 05:14pm +02, Joerg Jaspert wrote:

    On 17557 March 1977, Sean Whitton wrote:

    - not a single line of code has actually been written

    Wrong.

    There *is* actual code written on it. It's even on salsa in the dak
    repo. (Also, not by me).

    This is great to see. Thank you for the pointer, and thank you to
    Ansgar for working on it.

    It is important to note that all of the commits have author dates from
    1 day ago, i.e., some time *after* Ian posted his GR draft.

    In my message I asked you to put yourself in our shoes, and consider
    whether it was reasonable to expect Ian to just accept that the code was
    going to be written, despite all the evidence that it wouldn't be.

    In that context, "not a single line of code [had] actually been written"
    is still true, and not just "Wrong", as you put it.

    The situation is now different to what it was.
    I hope we can proceed normally from here. Thanks again.

    --
    Sean Whitton

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