Julian Andres Klode <[email protected]> wrote on 25/03/2025 at 22:10:25+0100:

On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 03:53:24PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote:

On 2025-03-25 12:06, G. Branden Robinson wrote:

2. Will you articulate a policy that no Debian Developer shall occupy
more than one delegated role at a time?

3. Will you ask any Debian Developers enjoying multiple delegations to
resign from all but one of their choice?

I have some concerns about this.

It seems like this could just lead to broader delegations. For example,
instead of having "General Team" with A, B, C, D, & E, and "Specific Team" >> with A, B, and C, just drop the "Specific Team". For a partially made-up
example, imagine we had system administrators and then separate sub-teams
for different subsets (e.g. web sysadmins, email sysadmins). Forcing an
"only one delegation" rule here doesn't help anything, as the DPL would just >> eliminate the sub-teams in favor of one overall team. Where the subteams are >> used to limit access, this change would thus violate the Principle of Least >> Privilege.

Additionally, the fact that people are wearing multiple hats probably
indicates that was necessary to get the job done. There are 142
person-delegations to 103 persons. [1] Losing the duplicates seems like it >> would negatively impact the available volunteer time.

[1] https://www.debian.org/intro/organization

It's also quite frankly silly in a whole lot of cases:

This whole thread is silly IMHO.

--
PEB

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Hi Branden,

thanks a lot for the short and precise questions.

Am Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 12:06:31PM -0500 schrieb G. Branden Robinson:

Thanks to Andreas, Gianfranco, and others for pointing out that my
questions to the candidates would be improved by question marks.

As Debian Project Leader (DPL),

1. Will you remove the words "and Code of Conduct violations" from the
Community Team delegation charter?

No, I believe the inclusion of "and Code of Conduct violations" is
important for maintaining a clear understanding of the scope of the
Community Team's responsibilities. Removing these words could
potentially create ambiguity about the team's role in addressing such violations.

2. Will you articulate a policy that no Debian Developer shall occupy
more than one delegated role at a time?

I would gladly suggest this as a general guideline rather than a strict
policy. However, this would only be feasible if we had a large pool of
willing and qualified volunteers to fill delegated roles, which is
currently not the case.

Moreover, I do not see a strong need for such a policy as long as
holding multiple delegated roles does not create a conflict of interest.

3. Will you ask any Debian Developers enjoying multiple delegations to
resign from all but one of their choice?

No. See my answer to 2.

4. Will you establish a policy that all delegations made by the Debian
Project Leader shall be renewed no less frequently than once per DPL
term?

No, I do not see a need for this policy. Delegations should be made
based on the needs of the project, and there is no reason to set a rigid renewal timeline if the current delegates are doing their work
effectively.

5. Will you continue the practice that team delegation announcements
by the DPL implicitly withdraw the delegations of any sitting team
members not mentioned in that same delegation announcement?

Yes, I would continue this practice, as it is an established method of communication. Since this is already explicitly stated, I see no need to
change it.

Kind regards
Andreas.

--
https://fam-tille.de

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On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 03:53:24PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote:

On 2025-03-25 12:06, G. Branden Robinson wrote:

2. Will you articulate a policy that no Debian Developer shall occupy
more than one delegated role at a time?

3. Will you ask any Debian Developers enjoying multiple delegations to
resign from all but one of their choice?

I have some concerns about this.

It seems like this could just lead to broader delegations. For example, instead of having "General Team" with A, B, C, D, & E, and "Specific Team" with A, B, and C, just drop the "Specific Team". For a partially made-up example, imagine we had system administrators and then separate sub-teams
for different subsets (e.g. web sysadmins, email sysadmins). Forcing an
"only one delegation" rule here doesn't help anything, as the DPL would just eliminate the sub-teams in favor of one overall team. Where the subteams are used to limit access, this change would thus violate the Principle of Least Privilege.

Additionally, the fact that people are wearing multiple hats probably indicates that was necessary to get the job done. There are 142 person-delegations to 103 persons. [1] Losing the duplicates seems like it would negatively impact the available volunteer time.

[1] https://www.debian.org/intro/organization

It's also quite frankly silly in a whole lot of cases:

Outreach and Publicity Teams, Treasury, why should I not be a part of
the publicy team and the treasury?

I also think in some cases more overlap would be helpful, such as
release team and ftpteam. And I don't understand for the life of me
why we would not want ftpmasters to be in the backports team or the
tag2upload delegates.

--
debian developer - deb.li/jak | jak-linux.org - free software dev
ubuntu core developer i speak de, en

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On Fri, Apr 04, 2025 at 01:57:01PM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:

I also think in some cases more overlap would be helpful, such as
release team and ftpteam.

Can you be more specific about where you see potential synergy here?

Both need to perform operations on the archive, remove packages,
install signed files, what not.

And I don't understand for the life of me why we would not want
ftpmasters to be in the backports team or the tag2upload delegates.

Given recent developments, those concerns would appear to have separated themselves. In any case, if you peruse Ian Jackson's mail from earlier today,[1] I think you'll see that the barrier to tag2upload's progress appears not to be of the sort that concerns you; Sean Whitton enjoyed delegations to both teams yet _still_ was frustrated in advancing the tag2upload state of affairs. If Ian's summary is accurate, it is hard
to imagine how making the entire existing archive administration team simultaneous tag2upload delegates would have helped.

Your imagination may prove richer than mine.

FWIW; I don't believe that's accurate, Sean was a FTP assistant,
not an FTP master (which is the delegated role).

--
debian developer - deb.li/jak | jak-linux.org - free software dev
ubuntu core developer i speak de, en

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