We currently still build debian-mac-12.10.0-i386-netinst.iso and debian-mac-12.10.0-amd64-netinst.iso images.

These are for an *old* Intel-based Mac Mini that had issues with
image booting from certain disk layouts. From the wiki https://wiki.debian.org/MacMiniIntel#Macmini_2.2C1 - this was a long
time ago.

Most of these machines will be long since gone. In the same way that
we stopped producing specific 32 bit UEFI images and rolled those
into the 64 bit installer - removing the need for those multi-arch
images - can we now afford to do the same for these images?

*Most* modern Intel-based Macs will boot from the standard AMD64
install media though some may then have other firmware issues
e.g. T2 chip and touch bar.

Users have occasionally been confused and downloaded the wrong image.

I noticed the images were still there in the release testiing for
12.10 today.

Thoughts?

Andy Cater
([email protected])

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Hi,

Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

for an *old* Intel-based Mac Mini that had issues with
image booting from certain disk layouts. https://wiki.debian.org/MacMiniIntel#Macmini_2.2C1

I think the paragraph before that one explains better what's the
problem with old Macs and EFI-ready Debian ISOs.

https://wiki.debian.org/MacMiniIntel#Macmini_1.2C1
"When booting off CD/DVD, if there is more than one El Torito boot
record on the disc then the firmware gets confused. It tried to
offer a choice of the boot options, but it locks up instead."

So it is the second El Torito boot catalog entry for the EFI boot image
(System Partition) which causes the problems.

I would expect that the problem only occurs when the ISO is presented
on an optical medium. But firmwares are not very affine to specs.
So one would have to test whether booting a normal amd64 ISO from USB
stick works on the affected Macs.


Roland Clobus wrote:

If the netinst and live images are able to properly detect the hardware they are running on (including firmware bugs etc), I think it would be nice to remove the mac-specific images.

At the stage when the problem occurs, the netinst ISO has no own brain involved. Only the firmware is running and stumbles over the still
passive El Torito boot catalog.

What we could offer is a program which looks up the address of the
boot catalog from the boot record (2048-byte-block 17, offset 71 bytes,
32 bit little-endian) and then zeroizes in the boot catalog block all
bytes after offset 64.
This would remove the boot catalog entry for EFI and make a normal
amd64 netinst look like the "mac" amd64 netinst.

With 12.7.0:

$ cp debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso test.iso
$ xorriso -indev test.iso -report_el_torito plain
...
El Torito catalog : 1130 1
El Torito cat path : /isolinux/boot.cat
El Torito images : N Pltf B Emul Ld_seg Hdpt Ldsiz LBA
El Torito boot img : 1 BIOS y none 0x0000 0x00 4 5891
El Torito boot img : 2 UEFI y none 0x0000 0x00 19040 1131
El Torito img path : 1 /isolinux/isolinux.bin
El Torito img opts : 1 boot-info-table isohybrid-suitable
El Torito img path : 2 /boot/grub/efi.img

$ expr 1130 '*' 2048 + 64
2314304

$ dd if=/dev/zero conv=notrunc of=test.iso bs=1 seek=2314304 count=1984

$ xorriso -indev test.iso -report_el_torito plain
...
El Torito catalog : 1130 1
El Torito cat path : /isolinux/boot.cat
El Torito images : N Pltf B Emul Ld_seg Hdpt Ldsiz LBA
El Torito boot img : 1 BIOS y none 0x0000 0x00 4 5891
El Torito img path : 1 /isolinux/isolinux.bin
El Torito img opts : 1 boot-info-table isohybrid-suitable

Now there is only one boot image and the Mac firmware has no reason to
ask the user for choice.
EFI firmware is supposed to not boot any more from optical medium but
to still boot from USB stick (because the partition table still points
to the system partition).


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 01:50:20PM +0200, Roland Clobus wrote:

Hello list,

Today an article [1] mentioned that the last MacMini with Intel (2018) is
now considered 'vintage', and the other MacMini models are already
'obsolete' [2].

I recently tried to boot a MacMini 4.1 (from 2010) with a live image based
on sid from a simulated CD-ROM device.
It boots in the 'Windows' mode, but not in the UEFI mode.
The 12.10 GNOME live image boots in both modes.

At this point, it's 15 years old. It *might* be one of those MacMinis that require the particular Mac netinst - but it might be better just to let it
die.

Do you think it is worth the effort to reactivate support for this hardware?

No. The more so since the memory is likely to be limited and not upgradeable.

With kind regards,
Roland Clobus

All the very best

Andy

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2025/04/15/apple-says-all-mac-minis-with-intel-are-now-vintage-or-obsolete/
[2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/102772

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