"Andrew M.A. Cater" <[email protected]> writes:

On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 11:58:00PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:

All,

Is the license below acceptable for inclusion into 'non-free'? It is
claimed to cover the tarsnap software, see
https://github.com/Tarsnap/tarsnap and https://www.tarsnap.com/ for
background.

Regarding RFP/ITP status, there is now a Salsa pipeline building the
Debian package:

https://salsa.debian.org/jas/tarsnap/

It seems to build. If the license is deemed acceptable for inclusion
into Debian 'non-free' I plan to upload it, closing this old RFP bug. I
am guessing that the unusual license may have been regarded as a
blocker.

I'm going to be *very* picky here: a restrictive reading of this might suggest that only the *exact* software without any modificatin can
be distributed at all.

Packaging the software for Debian amounts to modification: minimal modification but modification anyway. That presumably means we
can't distribute it at all, even in non-free.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Why would packaging software in Debian necessarily amount to
modification of it?

Aren't there several packages in 'non-free' (or 'non-free-firmware' for
that matter) that only permits verbatim distribution without
modification?

I thought that was acceptable in 'non-free'.

Manuals licensed under GFDL with Invariant Sections comes to mind here.
We can't modify those parts but they are in 'non-free'.

/Simon

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On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 11:58:00PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:

All,

Is the license below acceptable for inclusion into 'non-free'? It is
claimed to cover the tarsnap software, see
https://github.com/Tarsnap/tarsnap and https://www.tarsnap.com/ for background.

Regarding RFP/ITP status, there is now a Salsa pipeline building the
Debian package:

https://salsa.debian.org/jas/tarsnap/

It seems to build. If the license is deemed acceptable for inclusion
into Debian 'non-free' I plan to upload it, closing this old RFP bug. I
am guessing that the unusual license may have been regarded as a
blocker.

I'm going to be *very* picky here: a restrictive reading of this might
suggest that only the *exact* software without any modificatin can
be distributed at all.

Packaging the software for Debian amounts to modification: minimal
modification but modification anyway. That presumably means we
can't distribute it at all, even in non-free.

All the very best, as ever,

Andrew Cater
([email protected])

/Simon

Copyright 2006 - 2022 Tarsnap Backup Inc.
All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, without modification,
is permitted for the sole purpose of using the "tarsnap" backup service provided by Tarsnap Backup Inc.

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND
ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS
OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION)
HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY
OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
SUCH DAMAGE.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 5:29 PM Simon Josefsson <[email protected]> wrote:

"Andrew M.A. Cater" <[email protected]> writes:

On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 11:58:00PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Packaging the software for Debian amounts to modification: minimal modification but modification anyway. That presumably means we
can't distribute it at all, even in non-free.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Why would packaging software in Debian necessarily amount to
modification of it?

This creates gray area, especially when you consider something like
d/patches (or sed+d/rules). Adding the packaging directory is
technically a modification of your source directory. You can try to
keep it separate, but that's not how our build tools work and then
you're getting into spirit of the law stuff.

You can make a case for non-free, but then you'll definitely want to
look into the packaging history of truecrypt. They actually included
their own debian/ directory, making it a clear license violation to
touch anything inside.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Michael Lustfield <[email protected]> writes:

On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 5:29 PM Simon Josefsson <[email protected]> wrote:

"Andrew M.A. Cater" <[email protected]> writes:

On Tue, Feb 04, 2025 at 11:58:00PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote:
Packaging the software for Debian amounts to modification: minimal
modification but modification anyway. That presumably means we
can't distribute it at all, even in non-free.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Why would packaging software in Debian necessarily amount to
modification of it?

This creates gray area, especially when you consider something like
d/patches (or sed+d/rules). Adding the packaging directory is
technically a modification of your source directory. You can try to
keep it separate, but that's not how our build tools work and then
you're getting into spirit of the law stuff.

You can make a case for non-free, but then you'll definitely want to
look into the packaging history of truecrypt. They actually included
their own debian/ directory, making it a clear license violation to
touch anything inside.

That's not the case here, as far as I can tell, and Truecrypt
maintainers were uncooperative to Debian 'non-free' inclusion which is
also unlike the situation for tarsnap. What similarity do you see?

I don't understand the objection that 'non-free' works has to be
modifiable. We have 'non-free' works that are not modifiable by Debian.
We even have ship binaries that cannot be modified. As far as I
understand, doing so is exactly one of the purposes of the 'non-free'
section.

Compare the randomly picked PAML license of 'seq-gen' from non-free:

https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//non-free/s/seq-gen/seq-gen_1.3.4-2_copyright

There is no permission to distribute modified versions, only for copy
and use:

The software package is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind. In no
event shall the author or his employer be held
responsible for any damage resulting from the use of this software, including
but not limited to the frustration that you may
experience in using the package. The program package, including source codes,
example data sets, executables, and this
documentation, is distributed free of charge for academic use only. Permission
is granted to copy and use programs in the
package provided no fee is charged for it and provided that this copyright
notice is not removed.

/Simon

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