As far as I can tell, the OpenType binaries have data structures that map
1:1 to their source project files, so it is trivial to regenerate the
sources from the binaries.
If there's any specific case in which this is not true, I'd be glad to
learn about.
Given that, I think the lack of sources in this case is OK, because it is trivial to recompute them.
Let me know if you have additional information.
cheers,
Felipe Sanches
Em sáb., 10 de ago. de 2024 às 13:39, Pip Cet <
[email protected]> escreveu:
My apologies if this issue has been discussed before or resolved
otherwise.
The Debian project contains TrueType fonts without sources. The "source" packages provide .ttf files which contain binary information compiled
from secret sources.
This is not about the license the .ttf files are made available under;
it's about whether these distributions include source code, as
required by the DFSG and the OSI Open Source definition.
Fonts are, of course, nontrivial computer programs. In addition
(usually, see below) to the glyph outlines, which can be retrieved
from the TTF files, they contain a large amount of code and additional
data. For example, the "fpgm" table may specify a sub-program for
which source code is not available.
Some fonts even specify entire font families as "variable font"
programs which take various parameters, so the outlines are very
little help at all since they vary depending on the parameters, in non-trivial, non-modifiable ways hidden in the binary files.
In particular, this affects at least the following fonts:
Noto CJK: in this case, something *closer* to the source is available
from Adobe's GitHub pages
(https://github.com/adobe-fonts/source-han-sans), but even that font
(a Type 1 PostScript font packed in a CID) was produced by a
"proprietary application" (https://blog.typekit.com/2014/08/14/interview-with-ryoko-nishizuka/). I believe it's highly likely this proprietary tool consumed additional
source data which is not available.
Noto Emoji Color: the GitHub repository indicates
( https://github.com/adobe-fonts/noto-emoji-svg?tab=readme-ov-file#generating-png-and-svg-files
)
that there are Adobe Illustrator files which constitute "the original
Ai artwork". These files, which may include valuable information, are
not included, only SVGs and PNGs generated from them.
Droid Sans Mono: the font includes a non-trivial "fpgm" table which
changes the appearance of some glyphs. No source code or instruction
for rebuilding this table has been made available.
It is not unusual for intermediate files to be independently editable;
for example, the Perl source code includes perly.c, which "was
originally generated as an output from GNU bison version 1.875, but
now the code is statically maintained". In this case, as with the
fonts, complete source code includes both the original file and the
modified generated file.
Quite possibly, the source code to some or all of these fonts has been
lost. That means they cannot ever again meet the DFSG or satisfy the
"Open Source" definition, though of course the binary files remain redistributable.
This issue is, of course, not about the "encryption" used by some
fonts.
Some questions raised by this are as follows:
1. What is the source code for fonts? Is there some argument that .ttf
files, by some process, become the source code even when they're
generated from other sources?
2. Can we even know what the source code is without a statement by the
copyright holder, or even the original author?
3. What is the source code of a font which has been "remastered" based
on bitmaps produced from another font? This is happening, for
example, at https://github.com/notofonts/noto-cjk-varco. Is this
a way to make a non-free font, such as, I suspect, Noto CJK/Source
Han, free again?
<div dir="ltr"><div>As far as I can tell, the OpenType binaries have data structures that map 1:1 to their source project files, so it is trivial to regenerate the sources from the binaries.</div><div><br></div><div>If there's any specific case in
which this is not true, I'd be glad to learn about.</div><div><br></div><div>Given that, I think the lack of sources in this case is OK, because it is trivial to recompute them.</div><div><br></div><div>Let me know if you have additional information.<
/div><div><br></div><div>cheers,</div><div>Felipe Sanches<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sáb., 10 de ago. de 2024 às 13:39, Pip Cet <<a href="mailto:
[email protected]">
[email protected]</a>&
gt; escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">My apologies if this issue has been discussed before or resolved<br>
otherwise.<br>
The Debian project contains TrueType fonts without sources. The "source"<br>
packages provide .ttf files which contain binary information compiled<br>
from secret sources.<br>
This is not about the license the .ttf files are made available under;<br> it's about whether these distributions include source code, as<br>
required by the DFSG and the OSI Open Source definition.<br>
Fonts are, of course, nontrivial computer programs. In addition<br>
(usually, see below) to the glyph outlines, which can be retrieved<br>
from the TTF files, they contain a large amount of code and additional<br> data. For example, the "fpgm" table may specify a sub-program for<br> which source code is not available.<br>
Some fonts even specify entire font families as "variable font"<br> programs which take various parameters, so the outlines are very<br>
little help at all since they vary depending on the parameters, in<br> non-trivial, non-modifiable ways hidden in the binary files.<br>
In particular, this affects at least the following fonts:<br>
Noto CJK: in this case, something *closer* to the source is available<br>
from Adobe's GitHub pages<br>
(<a href="
https://github.com/adobe-fonts/source-han-sans" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://github.com/adobe-fonts/source-han-sans</a>), but even that font<br>
(a Type 1 PostScript font packed in a CID) was produced by a<br> "proprietary application"<br>
(<a href="
https://blog.typekit.com/2014/08/14/interview-with-ryoko-nishizuka/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://blog.typekit.com/2014/08/14/interview-with-ryoko-nishizuka/</a>). I<br>
believe it's highly likely this proprietary tool consumed additional<br> source data which is not available.<br>
Noto Emoji Color: the GitHub repository indicates<br>
(<a href="
https://github.com/adobe-fonts/noto-emoji-svg?tab=readme-ov-file#generating-png-and-svg-files" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://github.com/adobe-fonts/noto-emoji-svg?tab=readme-ov-file#generating-png-and-svg-files</a>)<br>
that there are Adobe Illustrator files which constitute "the original<br> Ai artwork". These files, which may include valuable information, are<br> not included, only SVGs and PNGs generated from them.<br>
Droid Sans Mono: the font includes a non-trivial "fpgm" table which<br>
changes the appearance of some glyphs. No source code or instruction<br>
for rebuilding this table has been made available.<br>
It is not unusual for intermediate files to be independently editable;<br>
for example, the Perl source code includes perly.c, which "was<br> originally generated as an output from GNU bison version 1.875, but<br>
now the code is statically maintained". In this case, as with the<br> fonts, complete source code includes both the original file and the<br> modified generated file.<br>
Quite possibly, the source code to some or all of these fonts has been<br> lost. That means they cannot ever again meet the DFSG or satisfy the<br> "Open Source" definition, though of course the binary files remain<br>
redistributable.<br>
This issue is, of course, not about the "encryption" used by some<br> fonts.<br>
Some questions raised by this are as follows:<br>
1. What is the source code for fonts? Is there some argument that .ttf<br>
files, by some process, become the source code even when they're<br> generated from other sources?<br>
2. Can we even know what the source code is without a statement by the<br>
copyright holder, or even the original author?<br>
3. What is the source code of a font which has been "remastered" based<br>
on bitmaps produced from another font? This is happening, for<br>
example, at <a href="
https://github.com/notofonts/noto-cjk-varco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://github.com/notofonts/noto-cjk-varco</a>. Is this<br>
a way to make a non-free font, such as, I suspect, Noto CJK/Source<br>
Han, free again?<br>
</blockquote></div>
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)