• Nmap Public Source License Version 0.94 - Is it DFSG-compliant?

    From Samuel Henrique@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 5 00:50:01 2022
    Nmap has just released its version 7.93, and it comes with a new
    license, similar to what it used to be, but it raised people's
    attention so the license got more scrutiny than ever and that resulted
    in long threads with no broad consensus.

    There have been lots of discussions going on about it, and I think
    it's better to post the links here and see what people think of it.

    There doesn't seem to be a consensus on whether or not the license is
    free overall, but upstream has made changes from feedback received
    from the discussions.
    The license seems to be a bit better now, but I should not make a
    decision just by myself (I'm leaning towards considering it
    DFSG-compliant but I'm not 100% sure yet).

    I invite you to have a look at these discussions [0] [1], the latest
    version of the NPSL [3], and also consider that some of the things
    discussed have been addressed in the latest version.

    My understanding is that the trouble revolves around the license
    talking about proprietary products that ship nmap needing to buy an
    OEM license, which I don't think it conflicts with the DFSG as this is
    pretty much like a copyleft license with an extra hint that people can
    buy the software at a different license if they don't want to respect
    the copyleft aspect.
    The discussions started due to some poor wording of that part, which
    has been changed to address the concerns raised, so it looks fine to
    me now.

    Hilko has also done quite a good work reviewing and commenting on the
    Github issue, although I don't know what his position is on the latest
    version of the license, so I'm cc'ing him just in case.

    I think we as the Debian project can contribute a lot by analysing
    this license and declaring whether or not it is DFSG-compliant.

    [0] https://github.com/nmap/nmap/issues/2199
    [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=972216
    [3] https://nmap.org/npsl/npsl-annotated.html

    Regards,

    --
    Samuel Henrique <samueloph>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Walter Landry@21:1/5 to Samuel Henrique on Mon Sep 5 05:40:01 2022
    Samuel Henrique <[email protected]> writes:
    Nmap has just released its version 7.93, and it comes with a new
    license, similar to what it used to be, but it raised people's
    attention so the license got more scrutiny than ever and that resulted
    in long threads with no broad consensus.

    For the record, here is the complete text of the NPSL from

    https://svn.nmap.org/nmap/LICENSE

    Cheers,
    Walter

    -------------------------------------

    Nmap Public Source License Version 0.94
    For more information on this license, see https://nmap.org/npsl/

    0. Preamble

    The intent of this license is to establish freedom to share and change
    the software regulated by this license under the open source model. It
    also includes a Contributor Agreement and disclaims any warranty on
    Covered Software. Companies wishing to use or incorporate Covered
    Software within their own products may find that our Nmap OEM product (https://nmap.org/oem/) better suits their needs. Open source
    developers who wish to incorporate parts of Covered Software into free
    software with conflicting licenses may write Licensor to request a
    waiver of terms.

    If the Nmap Project (directly or through one of its commercial
    licensing customers) has granted you additional rights to Nmap or Nmap
    OEM, those additional rights take precedence where they conflict with
    the terms of this license agreement.

    This License represents the complete agreement concerning subject
    matter hereof. It contains the license terms themselves, but not the
    reasoning behind them or detailed explanations. For further
    information about this License, see https://nmap.org/npsl/ . That page
    makes a good faith attempt to explain this License, but it does not
    and can not modify its governing terms in any way.

    1. Definitions

    * "Contribution" means any work of authorship, including the original
    version of the Work and any modifications or additions to that Work
    or Derivative Works thereof, that is intentionally submitted to
    Licensor by the copyright owner or by an individual or Legal Entity
    authorized to submit on behalf of the copyright owner. For the
    purposes of this definition, "submitted" means any form of
    electronic, verbal, or written communication sent to the Licensor or
    its representatives, including but not limited to communication on
    electronic mailing lists, source code control systems, web sites,
    and issue tracking systems that are managed by, or on behalf of, the
    Licensor for the purpose of discussing and improving the Work, but
    excluding communication that is conspicuously marked or otherwise
    designated in writing by the copyright owner as "Not a
    Contribution."

    * "Contributor" means Licensor and any individual or Legal Entity on
    behalf of whom a Contribution has been received by Licensor and
    subsequently incorporated within the Work.

    * "Covered Software" means the work of authorship, whether in Source
    or Object form, made available under the License, as indicated by a
    copyright notice that is included in or attached to the work

    * "Derivative Work" or "Collective Work" means any work, whether in
    Source or Object form, that is based on (or derived from) the Work
    and for which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or
    other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of
    authorship. It includes software as described in Section 3 of this
    License.

    * "Executable" means Covered Software in any form other than Source Code.

    * "Externally Deploy" means to Deploy the Covered Software in any way
    that may be accessed or used by anyone other than You, used to
    provide any services to anyone other than You, or used in any way to
    deliver any content to anyone other than You, whether the Covered
    Software is distributed to those parties, made available as an
    application intended for use over a computer network, or used to
    provide services or otherwise deliver content to anyone other than
    You.

    * "GPL" means the GNU General Public License Version 2, as published
    by the Free Software Foundation and provided in Exhibit A.

    * "Legal Entity" means the union of the acting entity and all other
    entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common
    control with that entity. For the purposes of this definition,
    "control" means (i) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the
    direction or management of such entity, whether by contract or
    otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the
    outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such entity.

    * "License" means this document, including Exhibits.

    * "Licensor" means Nmap Software LLC and its successors and assigns.

    * "Main License Body" means all of the terms of this document,
    excluding Exhibits.

    * "You" (or "Your") means an individual or Legal Entity exercising
    permissions granted by this License.

    2. General Terms

    Covered Software is licensed to you under the terms of the GPL
    (Exhibit A), with all the exceptions, clarifications, and additions
    noted in this Main License Body. Where the terms in this Main License
    Body conflict in any way with the GPL, the Main License Body terms
    shall take precedence. These additional terms mean that You may not
    distribute Covered Software or Derivative Works under plain GPL terms
    without special permission from Licensor.

    You are not required to accept this License. However, nothing else
    grants You permission to use, copy, modify or distribute the software
    or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law if You do
    not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying, copying or
    distributing the software (or any work based on the software), You
    indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, and all its terms
    and conditions. In addition, you agree to the terms of this License by
    clicking the Accept button or downloading the software.

    3. Derivative Works

    This License (including the GPL portion) places important restrictions
    on derived works. Licensor interprets that term quite broadly. To
    avoid any misunderstandings, we consider software to constitute a
    "derivative work" of Covered Software for the purposes of this license
    if it does any of the following:

    * Integrates source code from Covered Software

    * Reads or includes Covered Software data files, such as nmap-os-db or
    nmap-service-probes.

    * Is designed specifically to execute Covered Software and parse the
    results (as opposed to typical shell or execution-menu apps, which
    will execute anything you tell them to).

    * Includes Covered Software in a proprietary executable installer. The
    installers produced by InstallShield are an example of
    this. Including Nmap with other software in compressed or archival
    form does not trigger this provision, provided appropriate open
    source decompression or de-archiving software is widely available
    for no charge. For the purposes of this license, an installer is
    considered to include Covered Software even if it actually retrieves
    a copy of Covered Software from another source during runtime (such
    as by downloading it from the Internet).

    * Links (statically or dynamically) to a library which does any of the
    above

    * Executes a helper program, module, or script to do any of the above.
    This list is not exclusive, but is meant to clarify Licensor's
    intentions with some common examples. Distribution of any works
    which meet these criteria must be under the terms of this license
    (including this Main License Body and GPL), with no additional
    conditions or restrictions. They must abide by all restrictions that
    the GPL places on derivative or collective works, including the
    requirements for distributing their source code and allowing
    royalty-free redistribution.

    4. Contributor Agreement (Grant of Copyright and Patent Licenses)

    Each Contributor hereby grants to Licensor a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license
    to reproduce, prepare Derivative Works of, publicly display, publicly
    perform, sublicense, and distribute the Contribution and such
    Derivative Works in Source or Object form.

    Each Contributor hereby grants to You and Licensor a perpetual,
    worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except
    as stated in this section) patent license to make, have made, use,
    offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer the Work, where
    such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by such
    Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s)
    alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work to
    which such Contribution(s) was submitted. If You institute patent
    litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim
    in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated
    within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent
    infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this
    License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation
    is filed.

    Contributors may impose different terms on their Contributions by
    stating those terms in writing at the time the Contribution is
    made. Contributors may withhold all authority from Licensor to
    incorporate submissions by conspicuously marking or otherwise
    designating them in writing as "Not a Contribution" at the time they
    make the work available.

    5. Disclaimer of Warranty and Limitation of Liability

    Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in writing, Licensor
    provides the Covered Software (and each Contributor provides its
    Contributions) on an "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS
    OF ANY KIND, either express or implied, including, without limitation,
    any warranties or conditions of TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT,
    MERCHANTABILITY, or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. You are solely responsible for determining the appropriateness of using or
    redistributing the Covered Software and assume any risks associated
    with Your exercise of permissions under this License.

    In no event and under no legal theory, whether in tort (including
    negligence), contract, or otherwise, unless required by applicable law
    (such as deliberate and grossly negligent acts) or agreed to in
    writing, shall any Contributor be liable to You for damages, including
    any direct, indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages of
    any character arising as a result of this License or out of the use or inability to use the Covered Software (including but not limited to
    damages for loss of goodwill, work stoppage, computer failure or
    malfunction, or any and all other commercial damages or losses), even
    if such Contributor has been advised of the possibility of such
    damages.

    6. External Deployment

    If You Externally Deploy Covered Software, such as hosting a website
    designed to execute Nmap scans for users, the system and its
    documentation must, if technically feasible, prominently display a
    notice stating that the system uses the Nmap Security Scanner to
    perform its tasks. If technically feasible, the notice must contain a
    hyperlink to https://nmap.org/ or provide that URL in the text.

    7. Trademarks

    This License does not grant permission to use the trade names,
    trademarks, service marks, or product names of the Licensor, except as
    required for reasonable and customary use in describing the origin of
    the Covered Software.

    8. Termination for Patent Action

    This License shall terminate automatically and You may no longer
    exercise any of the rights granted to You by this License as of the
    date You commence an action, including a cross-claim or counterclaim,
    against Licensor or any licensee alleging that the Covered Software
    infringes a patent. This termination provision shall not apply for an
    action alleging patent infringement by combinations of the Covered
    Software with other software or hardware.

    9. Jurisdiction, Venue and Governing Law

    This License is governed by the laws of the State of Washington and
    the intellectual property laws of the United States of America,
    excluding the jurisdiction's conflict-of-law provisions. Any
    litigation or other dispute resolution between You and Licensor
    relating to this License shall take place in the Northern District of California, and You and Licensor hereby consent to the personal
    jurisdiction of, and venue in, the state and federal courts within
    that District with respect to this License. The application of the
    United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of
    Goods is expressly excluded.

    10. Npcap and the Official Nmap Windows Builds

    The official Windows Nmap builds includes the Npcap driver and library (https://npcap.com) for packet capture and transmission on
    Windows. That software is under its own separate license terms rather
    than this license. Therefore anyone wishing to use or redistribute
    both pieces of software must comply with both licenses. Since Npcap
    does not allow for redistribution without special permission, the
    official Nmap Windows builds which include Npcap may not be
    redistributed without special permission. Such permission can be
    requested by email to [email protected].

    11. Permission to link with OpenSSL

    Licensor grants permission to link Covered Software with any version
    of the OpenSSL library from OpenSSL.Org, and distribute linked
    combinations including the two (assuming such distribution is
    otherwise allowed by this agreement). You must obey this License in
    all respects for all code used other than OpenSSL.

    12. Waiver; Construction

    Failure by Licensor or any Contributor to enforce any provision of
    this License will not be deemed a waiver of future enforcement of that
    or any other provision. Any law or regulation which provides that the
    language of a contract shall be construed against the drafter will not
    apply to this License.

    13. Enforceability

    If any provision of this License is invalid or unenforceable under
    applicable law, it shall not affect the validity or enforceability of
    the remainder of the terms of this License, and without further action
    by the parties hereto, such provision shall be reformed to the minimum
    extent necessary to make such provision valid and enforceable.

    Exhibit A. The GNU General Public License Version 2
    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
    Version 2, June 1991

    Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA

    Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
    of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.
    Preamble

    The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom
    to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is
    intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free
    software--to make sure the software is free for all its users. This
    General Public License applies to most of the Free Software
    Foundation's software and to any other program whose authors commit to
    using it. (Some other Free Software Foundation software is covered by
    the GNU Lesser General Public License instead.) You can apply it to
    your programs, too.

    When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not
    price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you
    have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for
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    if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it
    in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

    To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid
    anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the
    rights. These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for
    you if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it.

    For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
    gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that
    you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the
    source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their
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    We protect your rights with two steps: (1) copyright the software, and
    (2) offer you this license which gives you legal permission to copy,
    distribute and/or modify the software.

    Also, for each author's protection and ours, we want to make certain
    that everyone understands that there is no warranty for this free
    software. If the software is modified by someone else and passed on,
    we want its recipients to know that what they have is not the
    original, so that any problems introduced by others will not reflect
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    Finally, any free program is threatened constantly by software
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    The precise terms and conditions for copying, distribution and
    modification follow.

    TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

    0. This License applies to any program or other work which contains a
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    1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source
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    NO WARRANTY

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    WRITING WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY
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    END OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS

    [For brevity, we've cut out the GPL's final section on "How to Apply
    These Terms to Your New Program", but you can find that at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html#SEC4 ]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hilko Bengen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 6 00:20:01 2022
    * Samuel Henrique:

    Nmap has just released its version 7.93, and it comes with a new
    license, similar to what it used to be, but it raised people's
    attention so the license got more scrutiny than ever and that resulted
    in long threads with no broad consensus.

    nmap 7.90 with a license similar to the current version was released in
    October 2020, almost two years ago. The upstream issue about the license
    was started in December 2020, without any resolution.

    My analysis posted there in March 2021 still stands: Upstream's broad definition about what constitutes a "derivative work" (a term that
    matters a lot in GPL 2) conflicts with the DFSG #9 "License Must Not Contaminate Other Software". For example, any program that is designed
    to parse NMAP's output would be considered a "derivative work".

    The motivation for this peculiar license seems to come from grievances
    against producers of commercial, proprietary software and devices that incorporated NMAP. It has been suggested that upstream switch the
    license to AGPL3 instead, but nothing of the sort has happened and I
    don't expect such a change to happen anytime soon.

    Ignoring the messy license does not seem to be an option and I don't
    want us to drop the NMAP package entirely, therefore I think it should
    be moved to non-free.

    Cheers,
    -Hilko

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  • From Samuel Henrique@21:1/5 to Hilko Bengen on Tue Sep 6 11:20:01 2022
    Hello all,

    On Mon, 5 Sept 2022 at 23:17, Hilko Bengen <[email protected]> wrote:
    My analysis posted there in March 2021 still stands: Upstream's broad definition about what constitutes a "derivative work" (a term that
    matters a lot in GPL 2) conflicts with the DFSG #9 "License Must Not Contaminate Other Software". For example, any program that is designed
    to parse NMAP's output would be considered a "derivative work".

    Ah, got it, I had the impression this was addressed in 0.94 (your
    comment was about 0.93 I believe), but this hasn't changed.

    I'm assuming you're talking specifically about the following items
    under the "Derivative Works" section:
    """
    * Reads or includes Covered Software data files, such as nmap-os-db or nmap-service-probes.
    * Is designed specifically to execute Covered Software and parse the
    results (as opposed to typical shell or execution-menu apps, which
    will execute anything you tell them to).
    """

    And indeed that sounds problematic to me too.
    Upstream has mentioned that this has always been present in NMAP's
    license, which is true as per our d/copyright file[0].
    This means that if we consider 0.94 non-free due to these restrictions
    under "Derivative Works", it means we consider the current release on
    main to be non-free too, so it should be moved to non-free by
    bookworm. If we only have issues with version 0.94 of the license,
    this would mean the current release can stay on main and only new ones
    go to non-free.

    I'm gonna add a comment later today to that github issue, to rectify
    that the "Derivative Works" section can be problematic (I know you
    already did so, Hilko, but I'm afraid upstream might have not paid
    enough attention due to the multiple threads going on there).
    I think that by using the example of a shell script which calls NMAP
    and parses its output, the issue might become more clear, as in this
    example the script would have to be licensed under NPSL, due to nmap's
    license. I assume this is something that wouldn't happen on any other DFSG-approved licenses (and it would be really important to know about DFSG-approved licenses where this would happen, if any).

    I have to say these discussions about "Derivative Works" do make me
    question the fragility of the definition even for GPL.
    The GPL "contaminates" software which is linked against it, but if you
    think about it, for softwares that doesn't expose a library (the usual
    case is software with a machine-readable output), this would be the
    equivalent of calling the software and parsing its output.
    At the end you get the same result, the only difference is that
    instead of using a symbol/API from a library, you're calling the
    binary with parameters that will give you the output you want (could
    be the very same output you would get from a given API). So in a way
    that restriction on NPSL seems equivalent to what the GPL does to
    libraries.
    The line that is drawn here seems a bit arbitrary, I'm gonna study
    more about this to see if I'm missing something. I appreciate others'
    comments on it as well.

    The motivation for this peculiar license seems to come from grievances against producers of commercial, proprietary software and devices that incorporated NMAP. It has been suggested that upstream switch the
    license to AGPL3 instead, but nothing of the sort has happened and I
    don't expect such a change to happen anytime soon.

    (this comment is more for other readers since I know Hilko knows what
    I'm writing below)
    Yes, although upstream is somewhat responsive on this matter, they're
    not able to dedicate a lot of time on it.
    I still have hopes that the situation is gonna improve.
    Nmap changing it to AGPL3 doesn't seem very likely right now, but they
    seem eager to make changes on NPSL.

    Ignoring the messy license does not seem to be an option and I don't
    want us to drop the NMAP package entirely, therefore I think it should
    be moved to non-free.

    I agree with this, but I'd like to see if upstream would do something
    to address the concerns about the "Derivative Works" definition.

    [0] For someone who might not have context yet: yes, it might happen
    that we find out the current license we have in main is non-free, so
    this is not necessarily about the new one only.
    Some relevant comments here: https://github.com/nmap/nmap/issues/2199#issuecomment-787623648 https://github.com/nmap/nmap/issues/2199#issuecomment-787625270 https://github.com/nmap/nmap/issues/2199#issuecomment-787847234


    --
    Samuel Henrique <samueloph>

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  • From Samuel Henrique@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 6 23:00:01 2022
    So now having read a bit more about this whole thing.

    The GPL restrictions do seem quite similar to what the NPSL have,
    related to Derivative Works, have a look at this from the FSF
    website[0]:
    """
    What is the difference between an “aggregate” and other kinds of “modified versions”?
    ...
    By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are
    communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs.
    So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are
    separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are
    intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too
    could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger
    program.
    """

    This does seem quite similar to what the NPSL does when it mentions
    software that calls and parses data from NMAP, the difference being
    that the GPL is not as explicit about it (it's a bit vague, probably
    on purpose), although FSF states clearly that something like a shell
    script that calls a binary and uses its output could fall into
    Derivative Works.

    The DFSG item 9 is also more about contamination by means of
    distribution other than interaction between the tools, as it says:
    "The license must not place restrictions on other software that is
    distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license
    must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium
    must be free software."

    Considering both things, I'm inclined to say that the license is DFSG-compliant.

    Does this change your mind, Hilko, or are you still in the same position?

    I'll try to get somebody else's opinion on this as well, maybe someone
    from the ftp-master team could help.

    [0] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation

    --
    Samuel Henrique <samueloph>

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  • From Francesco Poli@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 7 23:50:01 2022
    On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:48:38 +0200 Hilko Bengen wrote:

    [...]
    It has been suggested that upstream switch the
    license to AGPL3 instead, but nothing of the sort has happened and I
    don't expect such a change to happen anytime soon.
    [...]

    Speaking for myself: please, no.

    Although the GNU AfferoGPL v3 is currently [accepted] by Debian FTP
    Masters, it's a [controversial] license that a [number of people]
    (including [myself]) consider non-free.

    [accepted]: <https://bugs.debian.org/495721#17>
    [controversial]: <https://bugs.debian.org/495721#28>
    [number of people]: <https://raw-output.org/20071120/agpl>
    [myself]: <https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/11/msg00233.html>


    --
    http://www.inventati.org/frx/
    There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
    GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Francesco Poli@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 8 00:10:01 2022
    On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 20:29:24 -0700 Walter Landry wrote:

    [...]
    Covered Software is licensed to you under the terms of the GPL
    (Exhibit A), with all the exceptions, clarifications, and additions
    noted in this Main License Body. Where the terms in this Main License
    Body conflict in any way with the GPL, the Main License Body terms
    shall take precedence.
    [...]

    But the GNU GPL v2 clearly states:

    [...]
    6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the
    Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the
    original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to
    these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further
    restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted
    herein.
    [...]

    So licensing under the terms of the GNU GPL v2 and then adding further restrictions creates a self-contradiction.
    That does not seem a correct way to apply the GPL...

    See also some [old discussions] about this kind of issue.

    [old discussions]: <https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/05/msg00303.html>


    --
    http://www.inventati.org/frx/
    There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
    GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

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  • From Sam Hartman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 8 09:40:01 2022
    "Francesco" == Francesco Poli <[email protected]> writes:

    Francesco> So licensing under the terms of the GNU GPL v2 and then
    Francesco> adding further restrictions creates a self-contradiction.
    Francesco> That does not seem a correct way to apply the GPL...

    No, it does not. That term--the term that forbids you from adding restrictions--clearly conflicts with the "main body of the license," so
    the main body of the license rather than the GPL controls. Clearly such
    a license is not GPL compatible, although it may be free. Other
    discussion in this thread suggests it is in fact non-free, but I want to
    push back on the idea that the license is self-contradictory (and thus non-distributable).

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  • From Hilko Bengen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 8 18:20:01 2022
    * Samuel Henrique:

    So now having read a bit more about this whole thing.

    The GPL restrictions do seem quite similar to what the NPSL have,
    related to Derivative Works, have a look at this from the FSF
    website[0]:
    """
    What is the difference between an “aggregate” and other kinds of “modified versions”?
    ...
    By contrast, pipes, sockets and command-line arguments are
    communication mechanisms normally used between two separate programs.
    So when they are used for communication, the modules normally are
    separate programs. But if the semantics of the communication are
    intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too
    could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger
    program.
    """

    An example of such "intimate enough" semantics might be a strictly
    interpreted serialization format that is only practical to implement by generating code from a formal specification such as Protocol Buffers.

    For NMAP, there is no 2-way communication. To think that any ad-hoc
    parser for NMAP's ad-hoc default output format (see below) makes it a derivative work is, in my opinion, laughable.

    ,----
    | PORT STATE SERVICE
    | 21/tcp open ftp
    | 80/tcp open http
    | 139/tcp open netbios-ssn
    | 445/tcp open microsoft-ds
    | 515/tcp open printer
    | 631/tcp open ipp
    | 5431/tcp closed park-agent
    | 9100/tcp open jetdirect
    `----

    I have no idea how many such more-or-less such parsers (for the default
    or the XML-based format) there are in Debian but I'd be surprised if
    even one of those were NSPL-licensed.

    From the reverse dependencies and package descriptions, there are at
    least:

    - gnome-nettool
    - nmapsi4
    - some openstack-related packages
    - OCS iventory
    - OpenVAS
    - nikto
    - brutespray
    - 2 Python libraries
    - 1 Perl library
    - 1 Golang library

    The DFSG item 9 is also more about contamination by means of
    distribution other than interaction between the tools, as it says:
    "The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license
    must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium
    must be free software."

    Considering both things, I'm inclined to say that the license is DFSG-compliant.

    I disagree: The NSPL *does* place such restrictions. Consider the last
    bullet poiont of section 3:

    ,----
    | * Executes a helper program, module, or script to do any of the above.
    | This list is not exclusive, but is meant to clarify Licensor's
    | intentions with some common examples. Distribution of any works
    | which meet these criteria must be under the terms of this license
    | (including this Main License Body and GPL), with no additional
    | conditions or restrictions. They must abide by all restrictions that
    | the GPL places on derivative or collective works, including the
    | requirements for distributing their source code and allowing
    | royalty-free redistribution.
    `----

    I still think that nmap should go to non-free. I believe (but am not
    sure) that this is unproblematic as long as there is not other software
    in non-free that is a "derived work" according to the NSPL.

    Cheers,
    -Hilko

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  • From Francesco Poli@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 9 00:20:01 2022
    On Thu, 08 Sep 2022 01:35:59 -0600 Sam Hartman wrote:

    "Francesco" == Francesco Poli <[email protected]> writes:

    Francesco> So licensing under the terms of the GNU GPL v2 and then
    Francesco> adding further restrictions creates a self-contradiction.
    Francesco> That does not seem a correct way to apply the GPL...

    No, it does not. That term--the term that forbids you from adding restrictions--clearly conflicts with the "main body of the license," so
    the main body of the license rather than the GPL controls. Clearly such
    a license is not GPL compatible, although it may be free. Other
    discussion in this thread suggests it is in fact non-free, but I want to
    push back on the idea that the license is self-contradictory (and thus non-distributable).

    OK, maybe it does not create a self-contradiction.

    However, I think that it is at least a bit misleading that this license
    claims to be the GNU GPL v2 with exceptions/clarifications/additions,
    when these exceptions effectively disable one of the main points of the
    GNU GPL v2 (that is to say: "You may not impose any further
    restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein").

    I am under the impression that a more correct way to achieve the same
    results (free or non-free) would be to create a different license,
    possibly reusing some parts of the GNU GPL v2, but without referring to
    the GNU GPL v2 (except for the acknowledgment that the new license
    includes some modified pieces taken from the GNU GPL v2).
    In other words, following the [FAQ].

    [FAQ]: <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#ModifyGPL>


    --
    http://www.inventati.org/frx/
    There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
    GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

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  • From Sam Hartman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 9 07:40:02 2022
    "Francesco" == Francesco Poli <[email protected]> writes:
    Francesco> I am under the impression that a more correct way to
    Francesco> achieve the same results (free or non-free) would be to
    Francesco> create a different license, possibly reusing some parts
    Francesco> of the GNU GPL v2, but without referring to the GNU GPL
    Francesco> v2 (except for the acknowledgment that the new license
    Francesco> includes some modified pieces taken from the GNU GPL v2).
    Francesco> In other words, following the [FAQ].

    That's certainly what the FSF would prefer you do, yes.
    However, there are a few things to consider:

    1) It's not clear that the FSF's copyright on the GPL allows you to
    borrow text from it for your license. I believe it does not.

    2) It will be harder to figure out how a license constructed as you
    propose differs from the GPL and may be harder to analyze such a
    license.

    Keep in mind that the FSF, authors of the FAQ you point to want to make
    it hard to "fork" the GPL both because they would rather you simply pick
    the GPL and because they want to discourage license proliferation.
    There's nothing wrong with those goals; as an example Debian almost
    certainly wants to discourage license proliferation too.
    But those goals do create a certain bias in what the FSF recommends.

    In either case, I think we're well beyond the scope of this list.

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  • From Francesco Poli@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 9 23:30:01 2022
    On Thu, 08 Sep 2022 23:32:34 -0600 Sam Hartman wrote:

    [...]
    That's certainly what the FSF would prefer you do, yes.
    However, there are a few things to consider:

    1) It's not clear that the FSF's copyright on the GPL allows you to
    borrow text from it for your license. I believe it does not.

    2) It will be harder to figure out how a license constructed as you
    propose differs from the GPL and may be harder to analyze such a
    license.

    Keep in mind that the FSF, authors of the FAQ you point to want to make
    it hard to "fork" the GPL both because they would rather you simply pick
    the GPL and because they want to discourage license proliferation.
    There's nothing wrong with those goals; as an example Debian almost
    certainly wants to discourage license proliferation too.
    But those goals do create a certain bias in what the FSF recommends.

    I agree with what you say here.


    In either case, I think we're well beyond the scope of this list.

    Yes. :-)

    --
    http://www.inventati.org/frx/
    There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
    GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

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  • From Florian Weimer@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 10 21:20:01 2022
    * Sam Hartman:

    "Francesco" == Francesco Poli <[email protected]> writes:
    Francesco> I am under the impression that a more correct way to
    Francesco> achieve the same results (free or non-free) would be to
    Francesco> create a different license, possibly reusing some parts
    Francesco> of the GNU GPL v2, but without referring to the GNU GPL
    Francesco> v2 (except for the acknowledgment that the new license
    Francesco> includes some modified pieces taken from the GNU GPL v2).
    Francesco> In other words, following the [FAQ].

    That's certainly what the FSF would prefer you do, yes.
    However, there are a few things to consider:

    1) It's not clear that the FSF's copyright on the GPL allows you to
    borrow text from it for your license. I believe it does not.

    The FSF actually does on their web site:

    | Can I modify the GPL and make a modified license?
    |
    | You can use the GPL terms (possibly modified) in another license
    | provided that you call your license by another name and do not
    | include the GPL preamble, and provided you modify the
    | instructions-for-use at the end enough to make it clearly different
    | in wording and not mention GNU (though the actual procedure you
    | describe may be similar).
    |
    | If you want to use our preamble in a modified license, please write
    | to <[email protected]> for permission. For this purpose we would
    | want to check the actual license requirements to see if we approve
    | of them.
    |
    | Although we will not raise legal objections to your making a
    | modified license in this way, we hope you will think twice and not
    | do it. Such a modified license is almost certainly incompatible with
    | the GNU GPL, and that incompatibility blocks useful combinations of
    | modules. The mere proliferation of different free software licenses
    | is a burden in and of itself.

    <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.en.html#ModifyGPL>

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