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  • Privacy and defamation of character on Debian public forums

    From Chuck Zmudzinski@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 24 13:50:02 2021
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    I was accused in public of wrongdoing on the
    Debian bug tracking system which is hosted
    on a public, Debian website in response to a
    bug report I made.

    Since Debian's policy is to keep everything
    on its website public, and I was told every
    message I send regarding Debian must be
    put on Debian's public forums, then how
    can I try and work out a disagreement with
    someone in private emails instead of needing
    to expose the dispute in public with all the
    negativity, slander, and defamation that
    might entail?

    I am willing to cooperate with anyone to help
    improve Debian software, but only if they
    agree to not accuse me in public of wrongdoing
    without first discussing the matter with me
    in a private email or other private forum.

    I am not interested in suing Debian for what
    happened to me, but I would not be surprised
    if in the U.S. eventually Debian will get sued
    unless it scrubs its website of some of the
    comments people make about each other on
    Debian public forums.

    Thoughts?

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jonathan Carter@21:1/5 to Chuck Zmudzinski on Fri Sep 24 17:00:03 2021
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    Hi Chuck

    On 2021/09/24 13:45, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
    I was accused in public of wrongdoing on the
    Debian bug tracking system which is hosted
    on a public, Debian website in response to a
    bug report I made.

    Since Debian's policy is to keep everything
    on its website public, and I was told every
    message I send regarding Debian must be
    put on Debian's public forums, then how
    can I try and work out a disagreement with
    someone in private emails instead of needing
    to expose the dispute in public with all the
    negativity, slander, and defamation that
    might entail?

    I am willing to cooperate with anyone to help
    improve Debian software, but only if they
    agree to not accuse me in public of wrongdoing
    without first discussing the matter with me
    in a private email or other private forum.

    I am not interested in suing Debian for what
    happened to me, but I would not be surprised
    if in the U.S. eventually Debian will get sued
    unless it scrubs its website of some of the
    comments people make about each other on
    Debian public forums.

    You can (and we'd appreciate it if you would) contact the Debian Community
    team directly (which would not be public) at:

    [email protected]

    Please include the details like the relevant bug numbers and as much other detail as possible.

    thanks,

    -Jonathan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Ehlert@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 24 20:10:01 2021
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    Respectful sir, please review what you just wrote on a public facing page.

    I for one would not want you in my work place.
    Best Wishes with your job search.

    BTW: the internet is Forever. It can't be cancelled.

    On September 24, 2021 10:38:01 AM Chuck Zmudzinski <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 9/24/2021 8:04 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:45:03 -0400
    Chuck Zmudzinski <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hello Chuck,

    happened to me, but I would not be surprised
    if in the U.S. eventually Debian will get sued
    unless it scrubs its website of some of the
    In the USA, Section 230 covers this; Debian can't be held liable for
    comments made by others using their systems.


    However, if Debian refuses to remove defamatory comments,
    perhaps Debian could be held liable if Debian refuses to remove
    comments at a person's request if the comments truly harm a
    person's good reputation and, for example, destroys a person's
    ability to get a job in software development, or anywhere else
    for that matter. Who would hire me if they read what is now
    being said about me by Andy Smith, et. al. on Debian's web
    pages. If Debian wants to be sure to avoid such a lawsuit,
    I think Debian should remove at least some comments to
    completely avoid legal liability. I am sure I could find a lawyer
    in the U.S. to try it if I wanted to.

    Cheers,

    Chuck


    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
    <html>
    <body>
    <div dir="auto">
    <div dir="auto">Respectful sir, please review what you just wrote on a public facing page.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I for one would not want you in my work place.</div><div dir="auto">Best Wishes with your job search.</div><div dir="
    auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">BTW: the internet is Forever. It can't be cancelled.</div><div dir='auto'><br></div>
    <div id="aqm-original" style="color: black;">
    <div dir="auto">On September 24, 2021 10:38:01 AM Chuck Zmudzinski &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:</div>
    <div><br></div>
    <blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
    <div dir="auto">On 9/24/2021 8:04 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:</div>
    <blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #0099CC; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
    <div dir="auto">On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:45:03 -0400</div>
    <div dir="auto">Chuck Zmudzinski &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:</div> <div dir="auto"><br></div>
    <div dir="auto">Hello Chuck,</div>
    <div dir="auto"><br></div>
    <blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #9933CC; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
    <div dir="auto">happened to me, but I would not be surprised</div>
    <div dir="auto">if in the U.S. eventually Debian will get sued</div>
    <div dir="auto">unless it scrubs its website of some of the</div>
    </blockquote>
    <div dir="auto">In the USA, Section 230 covers this; &nbsp;Debian can't be held liable for</div>
    <div dir="auto">comments made by others using their systems.</div>
    <div dir="auto"><br></div>
    </blockquote>
    <div dir="auto"><br></div>
    <div dir="auto">However, if Debian refuses to remove defamatory comments,</div> <div dir="auto">perhaps Debian could be held liable if Debian refuses to remove</div>
    <div dir="auto">comments at a person's request if the comments truly harm a</div>
    <div dir="auto">person's good reputation and, for example, destroys a person's</div>
    <div dir="auto">ability to get a job in software development, or anywhere else</div>
    <div dir="auto">for that matter. Who would hire me if they read what is now</div>
    <div dir="auto">being said about me by Andy Smith, et. al. on Debian's web</div>
    <div dir="auto">pages. If Debian wants to be sure to avoid such a lawsuit,</div>
    <div dir="auto">I think Debian should remove at least some comments to</div> <div dir="auto">completely avoid legal liability. I am sure I could find a lawyer</div>
    <div dir="auto">in the U.S. to try it if I wanted to.</div>
    <div dir="auto"><br></div>
    <div dir="auto">Cheers,</div>
    <div dir="auto"><br></div>
    <div dir="auto">Chuck</div>
    </blockquote>
    </div><div dir="auto"><br></div>
    </div></body>
    </html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Dial@21:1/5 to Chuck Zmudzinski on Sat Sep 25 07:10:01 2021
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    On 9/24/21 05:45, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
    I was accused in public of wrongdoing on the
    Debian bug tracking system which is hosted
    on a public, Debian website in response to a
    bug report I made.

    Since Debian's policy is to keep everything
    on its website public, and I was told every
    message I send regarding Debian must be
    put on Debian's public forums, then how
    can I try and work out a disagreement with
    someone in private emails instead of needing
    to expose the dispute in public with all the
    negativity, slander, and defamation that
    might entail?

    I am willing to cooperate with anyone to help
    improve Debian software, but only if they
    agree to not accuse me in public of wrongdoing
    without first discussing the matter with me
    in a private email or other private forum.

    I am not interested in suing Debian for what
    happened to me, but I would not be surprised
    if in the U.S. eventually Debian will get sued
    unless it scrubs its website of some of the
    comments people make about each other on
    Debian public forums.


    As far as the US is concerned, a lawsuit might be filed, but the
    Communications Decency Act, Section 230 (47 USC 230) is likely to
    protect the Debian Project insofar as it is a provider of an information service in the form of public forums. Under that section, they may
    moderate as the administrators or managers think appropriate, including
    removal of items they might think defamatory; but moderation is not
    required and they are not held liable as "publishers" of what users post.

    Individual users might be sued for allegedly defamatory statements on a
    forum. They get no section 230 protection, but the US Constitution's
    first amendment and the rather extensive derived jurisprudence protects
    a lot of opinionated and arguably rude statements that some might
    consider defamatory and that in some countries may be legally actionable
    as such.

    It is much better, and almost always much more productive, to avoid
    personal attacks and maintain polite demeanor in discussions.

    Regards,
    Tom Dial

    Thoughts?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)