Hello,

Lucy, le mer. 23 juil. 2025 11:01:36 +0200, a ecrit:

2. The double-click change is functionally regressive

Single-click has been the KDE default for over a decade

I have always found this behavior surprising because on desktop
computers, I've only seen it in KDE. And thus I find it *dangerous*
because users don't expect the file to suddenly get opened just because
they clicked on it (to remove it, rename it, etc.).

I don't think Debian should diverge from upstream KDE's decision on
this.

This is not about nostalgia. It is not about UI philosophy. It is about maintaining a distribution that respects user control, offers consistency, and
avoids regressions in fundamental system behavior.

Which is exactly what this change is about, from what I can see.

Samuel

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XPost: linux.debian.project

Hi,

I have noticed that the Cc list is missing the Pope, the President, the Chancellor, the Chairperson of the Central Committee, Udo Lindenberg,
Neil Armstrong and Jay Leno. The Person who has chosen this Cc list
obviously wants an Audience. We should not give them that.

That being said,

On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 11:01:36AM +0200, Lucy wrote:

With the upcoming release of Debian 13 "Trixie", I want to formally
raise a critical technical objection to one of the adopted upstream
changes that risks undermining the efficiency,
consistency, and user trust that Debian has long upheld:

KDE Plasma 6's decision to enforce double-click as the default
behavior for file interaction.

I find it the right thing to follow Upstream's Decisions, ensuring
consistent behavior of KDE on different distributions.

Can we close this discussion please.

Greetings
Marc


-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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On 7/23/25 11:41, Marc Haber wrote:

Hi,

I have noticed that the Cc list is missing the Pope, the President, the Chancellor, the Chairperson of the Central Committee, Udo Lindenberg,
Neil Armstrong and Jay Leno. The Person who has chosen this Cc list
obviously wants an Audience. We should not give them that.

That being said,

On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 11:01:36AM +0200, Lucy wrote:

With the upcoming release of Debian 13 "Trixie", I want to formally
raise a critical technical objection to one of the adopted upstream
changes that risks undermining the efficiency,
consistency, and user trust that Debian has long upheld:

KDE Plasma 6's decision to enforce double-click as the default
behavior for file interaction.

I find it the right thing to follow Upstream's Decisions, ensuring
consistent behavior of KDE on different distributions.

Can we close this discussion please.

Greetings
Marc

Also the sender added a "Disposition-Notification-To: xx" field to get read-notifications.

I think this behavior + large list of recipient should be considered as
a tentative to collect personal data and the sender should be definitely banned.

Also I think our mailing-list server should reject any mail containing
such fields.

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XPost: linux.debian.project

Hello,

Lucy, you are piling rhetoric over rhetoric, that won't make a fruitful discussion.

Lucy, le mer. 23 juil. 2025 12:01:59 +0200, a ecrit:

Debian has never just been “a Linux distro.” It has always stood for deliberation, control, and the ability to resist upstream when needed.

That's not what the social contract says. It says “Our priorities are
our users and free software”. What is best for our users? Stay with a
default that nobody else uses, and thus surprise our users, even making
them make mistakes? Or provide a default that suits most people, while
*making sure to keep* the way to change it as *some* people prefer.

Another example was mentioned on IRC: focus-follows-mouse. Various
people are using it, for efficiency reasons (I am among them, I can't
see myself work another way). But it won't even come to our mind to
propose this as a default, because that would surprise a *lot* of our
users.

Yes, the switching decision of KDE is a tough one. But as explained by Aurélien, following it or not *was* discussed in Debian, and the
conclusion was to follow. Sorry that you dislike it, but you're very
welcome to set a kdeglobals snippet in your home, and be done with the
whole question.

Samuel

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XPost: linux.debian.project

On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 11:41:20AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

Hi,

I have noticed that the Cc list is missing the Pope, the President, the Chancellor, the Chairperson of the Central Committee, Udo Lindenberg, Neil Armstrong and Jay Leno. The Person who has chosen this Cc list obviously wants an Audience. We should not give them that.

This is incredibly witty, but really: was it necessary?

I understand that the original post is not easy to deal with
(as in most discussions about defaults), but reacting with such
sarcasm and vitriol, while perhaps at some level rewarding,
in the end poisons the whole thing for us all.

Cheers
--
t

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XPost: linux.debian.project

On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 12:36:58PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:

Lucy, you are piling rhetoric over rhetoric, that won't make a fruitful >discussion.

ChatGPT-written polemic emails aren't intended to make a fruitful
discussion. I would be glad if at least people on Debian lists recognized
such content and didn't try engaging with it :-/

--
WBR, wRAR

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On Jul 23, [email protected] wrote:

This is incredibly witty, but really: was it necessary?

Maybe it was not /necessary/ strictly speaking, but it was definitely entertaining.

--
ciao,
Marco

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XPost: linux.debian.project

Le mercredi 23 juillet 2025, 16:08:18 heure d’été d’Europe centrale Aaron Rainbolt a écrit :

On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 4:02 AM Lucy <[email protected]> wrote:

This shows up as being 98% AI-generated according to GPTZero [1]. If
this really matters to you, why are you using an AI slop generator to
write your petition? All this does is waste time and annoy people.

I can see why people would use LLMs for translating emails or for
polishing text, but I wish there was a rule against emails to the
Debian mailing lists in which the meaningful portion of the content is AI-generated.

(Repost because I accidentally sent this off-list the first time...)

[1] https://gptzero.me/

Damn, I was really tricked into answering a thoughtful, handcrafted answer… 🙂

I should have detected that with the Wayland bait.
But maybe that’s why I found the whole argument entirely unconvincing…

Thanks for sharing.


Happy hacking,
--
Aurélien

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XPost: linux.debian.project

On Wednesday, July 23, 2025 2:41:20 AM Mountain Standard Time Marc Haber wrote:

On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 11:01:36AM +0200, Lucy wrote:

With the upcoming release of Debian 13 "Trixie", I want to formally
raise a critical technical objection to one of the adopted upstream
changes that risks undermining the efficiency,
consistency, and user trust that Debian has long upheld:

KDE Plasma 6's decision to enforce double-click as the default
behavior for file interaction.

I find it the right thing to follow Upstream's Decisions, ensuring
consistent behavior of KDE on different distributions.

To further what Marc said, I think that upstream made the correct decision in this case. I consider double-click to be the setting desired and expected by the majority of users. For the minority of users who prefer something different, it is easy for them to change it.

Perhaps we could have a different discussion if the default that upstream had selected was not in the best interest of the majority of users. But in this case, I think upstream’s decision was correct and not modifying the upstream behavior in Debian is also correct.

--
Soren Stoutner
[email protected]
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Lucy, le jeu. 24 juil. 2025 09:16:12 +0200, a ecrit:

@Samuel: Ah yes, "ChatGPT-written polemic."

Your AI is not even able to grasp who said what.

Discussion can only stop here.

Samuel

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XPost: linux.debian.project

On Thu, Jul 24, 2025 at 09:16:12AM +0200, Lucy wrote:

What a fascinating display of community dynamics.

[...]

@Lucy: please don't take my disagreement with Marc's tone as
an endorsement of yours. Not by a far stretch.

While I could have interpreted your first post as a genuine
sign of distress (everyone is distressed when their favourite
defaults go away -- and I'm a gullible person), this second
post of yours lets me think you are firmly in troll territory.

I'm out of this.

Cheers
--
t

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XPost: linux.debian.project

Hello,

To people who may wonder why it's so obvious that AI was at the very
least used to "improve" the writing, it already merely comes from the vocabulary being used:

Lucy, le jeu. 24 juil. 2025 09:16:12 +0200, a ecrit:

How delightfully ironic

Your theatrical performance

you've weaponized incompetence

Nobody uses such vocabulary.

As shown in a paper published in Science Advances (preprint available on https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.07016 ), and noted by Nature in https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02097-6 :

“
They searched abstracts for ‘excess words’ that started to appear
more often than expected after November 2022, when ChatGPT became widely available.
[...]
The researchers found that 454 words appeared much more often in 2024
than in any other year since 2010.
”

While using AI to improve text is not necessarily a problem (it could
help communication), here it's only used to try to make the mail more persuasive, just piling rhetoric. Which is not what we need for Debian.

To make sure to fulfill our users' needs we need convincing mails, not persuasive mails.

Samuel

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On Thu, Jul 24, 2025 at 11:28:02AM +0200, frikilinux2 wrote:

not a DD but an autistic user, so maybe it's weird that I'm here but
anyway, I don't see the problem with using AI for 3 reasons:

1.  There are concerns about AI detection tools flagging content
generated by autistic people incorrectly.

I agree that AI detection tools are sketchy. However, in this case one
doesn't need a tool to see that this is clearly AI-written.

2.  Autistic people and people with social anxiety are more likely to
need to polish text with AI to avoid being misinterpreted (and that
happens a lot). Or because of issues with written expression.

Unfortunately, when the text is completely generated by an AI there is no
way to know if the thoughts expressed in it are from the person who sent
it.

Our CoC asks us to assume good faith and so a single AI-generated
email in a vacuum is not yet a reason to e.g. consider the submitter a
troll. In this case being AI-written is just one additional reason on
top of others.


--
WBR, wRAR

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