Hi Branden,

Am Thu, May 08, 2025 at 02:54:47AM -0500 schrieb G. Branden Robinson:

At 2025-05-08T09:07:48+0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

I don't believe the DPL should initiate GRs. I also think that when

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this GR does happen (and I'm confident it will), someone else will be
DPL.

In future DPL campaigns, I encourage the electorate to insist that each candidate disclose which powers of the office they categorically refuse

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

to exercise.

I think your paraphrasing of my statement is wrong.


Explanation for my initial statement: This reflects a personal judgment,
not an absolute rule. My reasoning is that the DPL's formal position
might unduly influence the outcome of a GR, and I prefer to avoid that potential imbalance. I aim to treat all Debian Developers equally and
therefore choose to refrain from initiating GRs--not because I believe
it's categorically wrong, but because I think it's the more impartial
course of action in my own case.

Kind regards
Andreas.

--
https://fam-tille.de

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G. Branden Robinson dijo [Thu, May 08, 2025 at 03:49:08AM -0500]:

this GR does happen (and I'm confident it will), someone else will be
DPL.

In future DPL campaigns, I encourage the electorate to insist that each
candidate disclose which powers of the office they categorically refuse

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

to exercise.

I think your paraphrasing of my statement is wrong.

I don't; your clarification reinforces my interpretation.

Explanation for my initial statement: This reflects a personal
judgment, not an absolute rule.

A rule doesn't have to be absolute to be general--in other words, >categorical. Moreover, one way to interpret accession to the office of
DPL through election is that the event reflects a general expression by
the developers of trust in the winning candidate to exercise one's
personal judgment wisely.

That's good for you, and potentially good for the Project. But we
should also have a clear idea of what we can expect of our candidates in >terms of the exercise of the constitutional powers of the office.

Would you be more comfortable with me characterizing your position as,
"I intend not to exercise the DPL power of initiating a GR except as an >emergency measure, have not observed any qualifying emergency in
Debian's history, and do not foresee one arising during my term."?

If not, I am eager and intensely curious to hear of the exceptional >circumstances you've contemplated.

This would be all clear, Branden, were it not that a large majority of past DPLs (if not _all_ of them, I cannot at this moment devote time to finding
the history behind each of our GRs) have refrained from doing so.

I guess that Andreas' mail (or even the constitutional text) could be read
as "there are exceptional circumstances for which a GR might be expeditely started by the GPL, without requiring seconds, skipping many usual
steps". The DPL has the power to judge if we have reached said exceptional circumstances. It does not happen often, and our current DPL seems not to
want such an occurrence to happen during his tenure.

– Gunnar.

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From: [email protected]

At 2025-05-08T09:07:48+0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

I don't believe the DPL should initiate GRs. I also think that when
this GR does happen (and I'm confident it will), someone else will be
DPL.

In future DPL campaigns, I encourage the electorate to insist that each candidate disclose which powers of the office they categorically refuse
to exercise.

Regards,
Branden

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From: [email protected]

[follow-ups should probably go to -project; this issue is non-technical]

Hi Andreas,

Thank you for your prompt follow-up.

At 2025-05-08T10:14:57+0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

Am Thu, May 08, 2025 at 02:54:47AM -0500 schrieb G. Branden Robinson:

At 2025-05-08T09:07:48+0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

I don't believe the DPL should initiate GRs. I also think that when

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this GR does happen (and I'm confident it will), someone else will be DPL.

In future DPL campaigns, I encourage the electorate to insist that each candidate disclose which powers of the office they categorically refuse

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

to exercise.

I think your paraphrasing of my statement is wrong.

I don't; your clarification reinforces my interpretation.

Explanation for my initial statement: This reflects a personal
judgment, not an absolute rule.

A rule doesn't have to be absolute to be general--in other words,
categorical. Moreover, one way to interpret accession to the office of
DPL through election is that the event reflects a general expression by
the developers of trust in the winning candidate to exercise one's
personal judgment wisely.

That's good for you, and potentially good for the Project. But we
should also have a clear idea of what we can expect of our candidates in
terms of the exercise of the constitutional powers of the office.

Would you be more comfortable with me characterizing your position as,
"I intend not to exercise the DPL power of initiating a GR except as an emergency measure, have not observed any qualifying emergency in
Debian's history, and do not foresee one arising during my term."?

If not, I am eager and intensely curious to hear of the exceptional circumstances you've contemplated.

My reasoning is that the DPL's formal position might unduly influence
the outcome of a GR, and I prefer to avoid that potential imbalance. I
aim to treat all Debian Developers equally and therefore choose to
refrain from initiating GRs--not because I believe it's categorically
wrong, but because I think it's the more impartial course of action in
my own case.

You did not say, and have made clear that you did not mean to say
merely, "I don't believe I should initiate a GR with respect to
inaugurating an ITN policy at this time."

Also, I said nothing about categorical "wrongness". The assessment of trustworthy judgment in the exercise of authorized powers is a separate
matter and adequately expressed by Debian's electoral process, IMO.

Your position is a defensible one in terms of it being a conscionable leadership style. And I grant that it may be one that a majority of the electorate will expect from DPLs for the indefinite future.

But I continue to think that we should get our leader candidates on the
record in this respect in all future elections.

My personal opinion is that the DPL should use all of the tools the
Debian Constitution makes available to them to address problems that
have to date resisted resolution.

Thanks again for clarifying.

Regards,
Branden

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