XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

Joey Hess <[email protected]> wrote:

Andrew Pollock wrote:

Can you please elaborate? I've just read the README file, and I'm not a lot >> wiser as to why the tex packages don't fit the policy?

I'd like a task for installing latex related stuff.

I suspect that less than 25% of our users use tex. It could conceivably
fail the requirement that 90% of our users know what the task is from
its short description.

I generally question those criteria, I think I have written about this
in a different mail.

Moreover, "tex" is not really a task.
"typesetting" or "word processing" or the like would be, but these and
the desktop task would have significant overlap, which I prefer to
avoid.

TeX is for sure *not* word processing, because the latter is what people
do with a word processor program, like Openoffice.

I think something like "text processing and typesetting" could be a
useful task, with sgml tools, docbook, makeinfo etc. But that's a
different thing, and I won't work on this.

tex is also not appropriate to be in a task because anyone who wants tex knows they want tex, and does not want to bumble around selecting
ill-defined tasks (like "word processing") and hope that they get tex. Instead, they want to manually select their packages, and I expect them
to do so. Tasks are for people who know what task they want to do, but
are not very picky about the tools the system chooses to do it.

This is not what I learned tasksel to be, as a user years ago. However,
I have no good suggestion regarding TeX. Perhaps a meta-package is more appropriate; however I am not sure what should be in it.

Although I question the usefulness of the criteria you use for tasksel
(or of a tasksel using those criteria), I don't mind very much, and I
will accept this as it is. Maybe sometime a meta package comes about.

For me, I would close this bug - however, since other people took part
in the discussion, I will wait a couple of days.

Regards, Frank

--
Frank K�ster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

Hi,

On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 05:33:41PM +0200, Frank K�ster wrote:

This is not what I learned tasksel to be, as a user years ago. However,
I have no good suggestion regarding TeX. Perhaps a meta-package is more appropriate; however I am not sure what should be in it.

Well, I think we should start with packages in the woody version's
tasksel.

Although I question the usefulness of the criteria you use for tasksel
(or of a tasksel using those criteria), I don't mind very much, and I
will accept this as it is. Maybe sometime a meta package comes about.

For me, I would close this bug - however, since other people took part
in the discussion, I will wait a couple of days.

I think sensible solution is to carefully chack and maintain tetex-bin package's Depends:, Recommends:, Suggests:. If these are done well,
then tex or latex virtual package will invite people to tetex-bin and installing all Depends:, Recommends:, Suggests: chain by aptitude will
give decent tex+latex environment. I did not cross check this one with previous tasksel rersults.

Considering tasksel is more general purpose machine set-up by
popular functionarity, I can live with this new simplified memu.

But I will certainly miss "educational" side of previous tasksel
choices. TeX task had a good educational value. So had the "C
programing" task.

Osamu

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 10:30:48AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:

Frank Kuester wrote:

I could not find those criteria written in any of the bug reports, or
in /usr/share/doc/tasksel. There was also no explanation why
specifically the tex task (and the science task, too) was removed.

I would be happy to cooperate with you and provide a new, better tex
task, but I need to know the criteria first.

tasks/README in the tasksel source package. I can't imagine any changes
to the tex task that would make it fit the new policy.

Can you please elaborate? I've just read the README file, and I'm not a lot wiser as to why the tex packages don't fit the policy?

I'd like a task for installing latex related stuff.

regards

Andrew


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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

Andrew Pollock wrote:

Can you please elaborate? I've just read the README file, and I'm not a lot wiser as to why the tex packages don't fit the policy?

I'd like a task for installing latex related stuff.

I suspect that less than 25% of our users use tex. It could conceivably
fail the requirement that 90% of our users know what the task is from
its short description. Moreover, "tex" is not really a task.
"typesetting" or "word processing" or the like would be, but these and
the desktop task would have significant overlap, which I prefer to
avoid.

tex is also not appropriate to be in a task because anyone who wants tex
knows they want tex, and does not want to bumble around selecting
ill-defined tasks (like "word processing") and hope that they get tex.
Instead, they want to manually select their packages, and I expect them
to do so. Tasks are for people who know what task they want to do, but
are not very picky about the tools the system chooses to do it.

--
see shy jo

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 09:44:21PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:

Andrew Pollock wrote:

Can you please elaborate? I've just read the README file, and I'm not a lot wiser as to why the tex packages don't fit the policy?

I'd like a task for installing latex related stuff.

I suspect that less than 25% of our users use tex. It could conceivably

So, we have only various server stuff that most of our users really don't care about ? Also, getting both KDE and gnome in one task is sure not to be popular for the slow bandwidth modem users.

Friendly,

Sven Luther


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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 07:50:13AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:

On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 04:55:29PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:

On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 09:44:21PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:

Andrew Pollock wrote:

Can you please elaborate? I've just read the README file, and I'm not a lot
wiser as to why the tex packages don't fit the policy?

I'd like a task for installing latex related stuff.

I suspect that less than 25% of our users use tex. It could conceivably

So, we have only various server stuff that most of our users really don't care
about ? Also, getting both KDE and gnome in one task is sure not to be popular
for the slow bandwidth modem users.

Amen. And it's defaulting to KDE to boot, which is starting to piss me off.

I think at least having a GNOME desktop and KDE desktop task is a Good
Thing. Users can always select both, if in doubt.

At the time of the woody release, there was discussion of implementing subtasks, but i guess nobody took the time to do this implementation, so this will be for sarge+1, too late now.

Friendly,

Sven Luther


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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 04:55:29PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:

On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 09:44:21PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:

Andrew Pollock wrote:

Can you please elaborate? I've just read the README file, and I'm not a lot
wiser as to why the tex packages don't fit the policy?

I'd like a task for installing latex related stuff.

I suspect that less than 25% of our users use tex. It could conceivably

So, we have only various server stuff that most of our users really don't care
about ? Also, getting both KDE and gnome in one task is sure not to be popular
for the slow bandwidth modem users.

Amen. And it's defaulting to KDE to boot, which is starting to piss me off.

I think at least having a GNOME desktop and KDE desktop task is a Good
Thing. Users can always select both, if in doubt.


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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot
From: [email protected]

Andrew Pollock wrote:

Amen. And it's defaulting to KDE to boot, which is starting to piss me off.

It's pissed me off ever since I filed the bug on gnome-session over one
month ago, got it fixed, and then watched the package not get into
testing over and over again. But that's offtopic for this bug report.

I think at least having a GNOME desktop and KDE desktop task is a Good
Thing. Users can always select both, if in doubt.

Our reasons for not doing that are well documented in the archives, and
will not be repeated here.

--
see shy jo

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