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  • Bug#265590: tetex-base should suggest tetex-doc, not recommend

    From Jonas Smedegaard@1:229/2 to All on Fri Aug 13 23:10:08 2004
    XPost: linux.debian.maint.tetex
    From: [email protected]

    Package: tetex-base
    Version: 2.0.2a-2
    Severity: minor

    Package recommendations are for stuff that doesn't actually break the functionality of the package, but really ought to be included
    (and should be pulled in automatically by package management tools if available).

    Package suggestions are "nice enhancements" to the package.


    tetex-doc seems from the description to be in the latter category (as is
    the case with most -doc packages).

    So please either lower the dependency of tetex-base on tetex-doc from recommends to suggests, or enhance the long description of tetex-doc to describe its relation with tetex-base so tight.


    Kind regards,

    - Jonas


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  • From Hilmar Preusse@1:229/2 to [email protected] on Mon Aug 16 10:00:11 2004
    XPost: linux.debian.maint.tetex
    From: [email protected]

    On 13.08.04 Jonas Smedegaard ([email protected]) wrote:

    Hi,

    Package recommendations are for stuff that doesn't actually break
    the functionality of the package, but really ought to be included
    (and should be pulled in automatically by package management tools
    if available).

    Package suggestions are "nice enhancements" to the package.

    Understood.

    tetex-doc seems from the description to be in the latter category
    (as is the case with most -doc packages).

    The texmf-tree is delivered from upstream as one tar ball. It
    includes everything excluding the sources of the texmf tree. So the
    doc is in reality a part of the texmf tree. We put it into an extra
    package cause (e.g.) an autobilder don't need texmf doc.
    There is at least one member of de.comp.text.tex, who got over and
    over questions from Debian users, just cause they didn't read the
    docs. Therefore we decided to make tetex-doc do be Recommend instead
    of Suggest.

    So please either lower the dependency of tetex-base on tetex-doc
    from recommends to suggests, or enhance the long description of
    tetex-doc to describe its relation with tetex-base so tight.

    I guess, we'll do the latter.

    Regards,
    Hilmar
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    sigmentation fault


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  • From =?iso-8859-1?q?Frank_K=FCster?=@1:229/2 to Hilmar Preusse on Mon Aug 16 14:10:10 2004
    XPost: linux.debian.maint.tetex
    From: [email protected]

    Hilmar Preusse <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 13.08.04 Jonas Smedegaard ([email protected]) wrote:

    tetex-doc seems from the description to be in the latter category
    (as is the case with most -doc packages).

    The texmf-tree is delivered from upstream as one tar ball. It
    includes everything excluding the sources of the texmf tree. So the
    doc is in reality a part of the texmf tree. We put it into an extra
    package cause (e.g.) an autobilder don't need texmf doc.
    There is at least one member of de.comp.text.tex, who got over and
    over questions from Debian users, just cause they didn't read the
    docs. Therefore we decided to make tetex-doc do be Recommend instead
    of Suggest.

    To put it in other words: If you only want to process documents that
    others deliver to you, like autobuilders do, you don't need
    tetex-doc. For any other use of TeX, for anyone writing, changing or
    updating documents, tetex-doc is a must.

    TeX does not have a GUI and thus no "help" menu, but it has some nice
    on-line help functions nowadays, delivered by tetex-bin. These will fail
    to work if tetex-doc is not installed. Any program with a "help" button
    will include it's help files in the package, or a depended-on,
    architecture independent *-doc/-common package. We need not really
    depend on it, but only suggests is clearly too low IMO.

    Regards, Frank
    --
    Frank K�ster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
    Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie

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  • From Jonas Smedegaard@1:229/2 to All on Mon Aug 16 15:00:17 2004
    XPost: linux.debian.maint.tetex
    From: [email protected]

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On 16-08-2004 13:45, Frank K�ster wrote:
    | Hilmar Preusse <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    |
    On 13.08.04 Jonas Smedegaard ([email protected]) wrote:


    tetex-doc seems from the description to be in the latter category
    (as is the case with most -doc packages).


    The texmf-tree is delivered from upstream as one tar ball. It
    includes everything excluding the sources of the texmf tree. So the
    doc is in reality a part of the texmf tree. We put it into an extra
    package cause (e.g.) an autobilder don't need texmf doc.
    There is at least one member of de.comp.text.tex, who got over and
    over questions from Debian users, just cause they didn't read the
    docs. Therefore we decided to make tetex-doc do be Recommend instead
    of Suggest.
    |
    |
    | To put it in other words: If you only want to process documents that
    | others deliver to you, like autobuilders do, you don't need
    | tetex-doc. For any other use of TeX, for anyone writing, changing or
    | updating documents, tetex-doc is a must.
    |
    | TeX does not have a GUI and thus no "help" menu, but it has some nice
    | on-line help functions nowadays, delivered by tetex-bin. These will fail
    | to work if tetex-doc is not installed. Any program with a "help" button
    | will include it's help files in the package, or a depended-on,
    | architecture independent *-doc/-common package. We need not really
    | depend on it, but only suggests is clearly too low IMO.

    Thanks for the detailed response, Hilmar - and the clarification, Frank.

    I understand now that I was wrong in my comparison with other -doc packages.

    Too bad, though: I never use tetex directly. It is pulled in by GUI
    packages using tetex scripts as backends (I assume). I imagine lots of
    people use tetex that way, so it would be nice to not be forced to have
    the documentation installed (nicely integrated with the tools or not). Suggestion: Add a meta package simply called tetex, which depends on
    tetex tools and doxcumentaion. You can then ask people to install tetex
    for a complete tetex environment (including socumentation), and people
    only interested in tetex as backend can avoid the bloat without messing
    with equivs.


    I will leave this bug open and (at a minimum) suggest that the
    clarification (the past block by Frank is fine IMHO) is added to the
    long description of both tetex-base and tetex-doc.


    Kind regards,

    ~ - Jonas

    - --
    * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
    * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

    ~ - Enden er n�r: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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  • From =?iso-8859-1?q?Frank_K=FCster?=@1:229/2 to Jonas Smedegaard on Mon Aug 16 16:40:12 2004
    XPost: linux.debian.maint.tetex
    From: [email protected]

    severity 265590 wishlist
    merge 265590 51869
    stop

    Jonas Smedegaard <[email protected]> wrote:

    I understand now that I was wrong in my comparison with other -doc packages.

    Too bad, though: I never use tetex directly. It is pulled in by GUI
    packages using tetex scripts as backends (I assume). I imagine lots of
    people use tetex that way, so it would be nice to not be forced to have
    the documentation installed (nicely integrated with the tools or not). Suggestion: Add a meta package simply called tetex, which depends on
    tetex tools and doxcumentaion.

    One more good idea for the big "now we're gonna make it really right"
    package splitting party, thank you. Don't bother that the severity is
    only wishlist - it is high on our list, because the current scheme
    causes many problems, and bugs to be reported. May each of them be
    wishlist only, the whole issue is important to us.

    Regards, Frank
    --
    Frank K�ster, Biozentrum der Univ. Basel
    Abt. Biophysikalische Chemie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
  • From Jonas Smedegaard@1:229/2 to All on Mon Aug 16 16:40:13 2004
    XPost: linux.debian.maint.tetex
    From: [email protected]

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On 16-08-2004 16:20, Frank K�ster wrote:
    | severity 265590 wishlist
    | merge 265590 51869
    | stop
    |
    | Jonas Smedegaard <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    |
    I understand now that I was wrong in my comparison with other -doc
    packages.

    Too bad, though: I never use tetex directly. It is pulled in by GUI |>packages using tetex scripts as backends (I assume). I imagine lots of |>people use tetex that way, so it would be nice to not be forced to have
    the documentation installed (nicely integrated with the tools or not). |>Suggestion: Add a meta package simply called tetex, which depends on
    tetex tools and doxcumentaion.
    |
    |
    | One more good idea for the big "now we're gonna make it really right"
    | package splitting party, thank you. Don't bother that the severity is
    | only wishlist - it is high on our list, because the current scheme
    | causes many problems, and bugs to be reported. May each of them be
    | wishlist only, the whole issue is important to us.

    Sounds promising :-)


    Happy hacking!

    ~ - Jonas

    - --
    * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
    * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

    ~ - Enden er n�r: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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