• Bug#212168: acknowledged by developer (Re: inetutils-syslogd: docs shou

    From Marc Haber@1:229/2 to Debian Bug Tracking System on Fri Aug 13 21:20:09 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:48:12AM -0700, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:
    What gnu syslogd does is reading from where _PATH_KLOG points to, which is the
    portable way of obtaining kernel logs.

    That should be documented in the manpage.

    Greetings
    Marc

    -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29


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  • From Robert Millan@1:229/2 to Marc Haber on Sat Aug 14 18:00:10 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 08:58:37PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:48:12AM -0700, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:
    What gnu syslogd does is reading from where _PATH_KLOG points to, which is the
    portable way of obtaining kernel logs.

    That should be documented in the manpage.

    It is:

    "Syslogd reads messages from [...], and from the special device /dev/klogd
    (to read kernel messages)"

    --
    Robert Millan

    (Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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  • From Marc Haber@1:229/2 to Robert Millan on Sat Aug 14 18:30:11 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 05:38:45PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 08:58:37PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:48:12AM -0700, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:
    What gnu syslogd does is reading from where _PATH_KLOG points to, which is the
    portable way of obtaining kernel logs.

    That should be documented in the manpage.

    It is:

    "Syslogd reads messages from [...], and from the special device /dev/klogd (to read kernel messages)"

    [...] expands to "the UNIX domain socket /dev/log, from an Internet
    domain socket specified in /etc/services".

    Since this neither includes /proc/kmsg, nor any reference to
    _PATH_KLOG, you're obviously making fun of me, or are not really
    interested in making the package any easier to use. Thanks a lot for
    wasting my time.

    Greetings
    Marc

    -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29


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  • From Robert Millan@1:229/2 to Marc Haber on Sat Aug 14 19:00:12 2004
    From: [email protected]

    reopen 212168
    thanks

    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 06:05:20PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 05:38:45PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 08:58:37PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:48:12AM -0700, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:
    What gnu syslogd does is reading from where _PATH_KLOG points to, which is the
    portable way of obtaining kernel logs.

    That should be documented in the manpage.

    It is:

    "Syslogd reads messages from [...], and from the special device /dev/klogd (to read kernel messages)"

    Since this neither includes /proc/kmsg, nor any reference to
    _PATH_KLOG, you're obviously making fun of me, or are not really
    interested in making the package any easier to use. Thanks a lot for
    wasting my time.

    I made a mistake and asssumed _PATH_KLOG would point to /dev/klog on
    linux-gnu, which is not correct. This is the most obvious explanation to
    my wrong response. What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Apparently, you think that harrassing maintainers like this will help you solve the actual problem, but in practice, it doesn't. Now, send me a patch to dynamicaly generate the manpage with the value contained in _PATH_KLOG.

    --
    Robert Millan

    (Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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  • From Marc Haber@1:229/2 to Robert Millan on Sat Aug 14 19:40:11 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 06:34:02PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 06:05:20PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 05:38:45PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 08:58:37PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 09:48:12AM -0700, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:
    What gnu syslogd does is reading from where _PATH_KLOG points to, which is the
    portable way of obtaining kernel logs.

    That should be documented in the manpage.

    It is:

    "Syslogd reads messages from [...], and from the special device /dev/klogd
    (to read kernel messages)"

    Since this neither includes /proc/kmsg, nor any reference to
    _PATH_KLOG, you're obviously making fun of me, or are not really
    interested in making the package any easier to use. Thanks a lot for wasting my time.

    I made a mistake and asssumed _PATH_KLOG would point to /dev/klog on linux-gnu, which is not correct. This is the most obvious explanation to
    my wrong response. What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Well, I asked to document A, and you pointed me towards documentation
    that looks like documenting A, conveniently leaving out the part that
    cleanly shows that the documentation I asked for is actually not there.

    Apparently, you think that harrassing maintainers like this will help
    you solve the actual problem, but in practice, it doesn't.

    If you think that being annoyed from being pointed to non-fitting docs
    and reacting appropriately is harrassment, I cannot find the right
    words to comment.

    Now, send me a patch to dynamicaly generate the manpage with the
    value contained in _PATH_KLOG.

    Just refering to _PATH_KLOG in the man page would be enough. People
    can be expecte to pull that path from the sources. If they know what
    to search for (which they currently don't, and which they would if
    _PATH_KLOG were referenced in the man page).

    btw, klogd(8) from the sysklogd package nicely explains how things are
    for Linux:

    In Linux there are two potential sources of kernel log information: the
    /proc file system and the syscall (sys_syslog) interface, although
    ultimately they are one and the same. Klogd is designed to choose
    whichever source of information is the most appropriate. It does this
    by first checking for the presence of a mounted /proc file system. If
    this is found the /proc/kmsg file is used as the source of kernel log
    information. If the proc file system is not mounted klogd uses a sys-
    tem call to obtain kernel messages. The command line switch (-s) can
    be used to force klogd to use the system call interface as its messag-
    ing source.

    Greetings
    Marc

    -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29


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  • From Robert Millan@1:229/2 to Marc Haber on Sat Aug 14 21:00:10 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 06:51:52PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    I made a mistake and asssumed _PATH_KLOG would point to /dev/klog on linux-gnu, which is not correct. This is the most obvious explanation to my wrong response. What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Well, I asked to document A, and you pointed me towards documentation
    that looks like documenting A, conveniently leaving out the part that
    cleanly shows that the documentation I asked for is actually not there.

    Yes, that's called "mistake". What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Now, send me a patch to dynamicaly generate the manpage with the
    value contained in _PATH_KLOG.

    Just refering to _PATH_KLOG in the man page would be enough. People
    can be expecte to pull that path from the sources. If they know what
    to search for (which they currently don't, and which they would if
    _PATH_KLOG were referenced in the man page).

    I disagree. _PATH_KLOG is an implementation-dependant macro and not
    something users need to know about (and the definition of this macro is
    in libc-dev package, which is not necessarily installed).

    --
    Robert Millan

    (Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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  • From Marc Haber@1:229/2 to Robert Millan on Sat Aug 14 21:30:13 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 08:33:32PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 06:51:52PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
    I made a mistake and asssumed _PATH_KLOG would point to /dev/klog on linux-gnu, which is not correct. This is the most obvious explanation to my wrong response. What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Well, I asked to document A, and you pointed me towards documentation
    that looks like documenting A, conveniently leaving out the part that cleanly shows that the documentation I asked for is actually not there.

    Yes, that's called "mistake". What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Probably a wrong kind of reasoning.

    Now, send me a patch to dynamicaly generate the manpage with the
    value contained in _PATH_KLOG.

    Just refering to _PATH_KLOG in the man page would be enough. People
    can be expecte to pull that path from the sources. If they know what
    to search for (which they currently don't, and which they would if _PATH_KLOG were referenced in the man page).

    I disagree. _PATH_KLOG is an implementation-dependant macro and not something users need to know about (and the definition of this macro is
    in libc-dev package, which is not necessarily installed).

    Well, I happen to be a user, and if I had that information in the man
    page, it would have saved me from half an hour of debugging because I
    knew immediately that the reason for klogd not picking up kernel
    messages was that /proc wasn't mounted in the chroot that I was using
    at that time. The fact that a list of sources _is_ listed in the
    manpage led me to investigate all listed sources (of course with no
    effect), before I resorted to stracing the program to find out that in
    fact the docs were (and still are) leading towards the wrong data
    source.

    Unfortunately, I do neither have the qualification nor the time to
    produce a patch to generate the manpage on a dynamic basis.

    Greetings
    Marc

    -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29


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  • From Robert Millan@1:229/2 to Marc Haber on Sun Aug 15 02:00:22 2004
    From: [email protected]

    On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 09:01:30PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    Yes, that's called "mistake". What kind of reasoning did you follow to reach
    the conclussion that I'm making fun of you?

    Probably a wrong kind of reasoning.

    Ok, no worries. Just think of it next time. I always try to be nice and
    avoid laughing at people. I also try to maintain my packages the best I can (which of course is far from perfect).

    I disagree. _PATH_KLOG is an implementation-dependant macro and not something users need to know about (and the definition of this macro is
    in libc-dev package, which is not necessarily installed).

    Well, I happen to be a user, and if I had that information in the man
    page, it would have saved me from half an hour of debugging because I
    knew immediately that the reason for klogd not picking up kernel
    messages was that /proc wasn't mounted in the chroot that I was using
    at that time. The fact that a list of sources _is_ listed in the
    manpage led me to investigate all listed sources (of course with no
    effect), before I resorted to stracing the program to find out that in
    fact the docs were (and still are) leading towards the wrong data
    source.

    I understand.. still want to do it right and replace _PATH_KLOG with its
    real value, though.

    Unfortunately, I do neither have the qualification nor the time to
    produce a patch to generate the manpage on a dynamic basis.

    Ok, I'll try to fix this one.

    --
    Robert Millan

    (Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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