From: [email protected]

Package: xfce4
Version: 4.0.5-1
Severity: normal
Tags: sid

When a new version of xfce4 is released, it is expected that apt-get xfce4 shall
upgrade the entire desktop enviroment.

However, since the dependencies on this package are non-versioned, the dummy/meta
package is updated, while leaving the rest of xfce4 out-of-date


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux tuxbox 2.6.7-ck4 #1 Fri Jul 2 09:39:54 IDT 2004 i686
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8

Versions of packages xfce4 depends on:
ii gtk2-engines-xfce 2.1.8-1.1 A GTK+-2.0 theme engine for Xfce ii xfce4-mcs-plugins 4.0.0.final-1 Special modules for the xfce4-mcs- ii xfce4-panel 4.0.3-3 The Xfce4 desktop environment pane ii xfce4-session 0.1.3+20031213-2 XFce4 Session Manager
ii xfce4-themes 4.0.0.final-1 Theme files for Xfce4
ii xfce4-utils 4.0.5-2 Various tools for XFce
ii xfdesktop4 4.0.0.final-1 Provides desktop background and ro ii xffm4 4.0.0.final-1 File manager for the Xfce4 desktop ii xffm4-icons 4.0.0.final-1 Icons for xffm4, the FM of XFce4 ii xfwm4 4.0.0.final-1 window manager of the XFce project ii xfwm4-themes 4.0.0.final-1 Theme files for xfwm4

-- no debconf information



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From: [email protected]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:50:44PM +0300, Idan Sofer wrote:

When a new version of xfce4 is released, it is expected that apt-get
xfce4 shall upgrade the entire desktop enviroment.

However, since the dependencies on this package are non-versioned, the dummy/meta package is updated, while leaving the rest of xfce4
out-of-date

Well normally you would do a proper full upgrade and this would not be
an issue.

ii gtk2-engines-xfce 2.1.8-1.1 A GTK+-2.0 theme engine for Xfce ii xfce4-mcs-plugins 4.0.0.final-1 Special modules for the xfce4-mcs-
ii xfce4-panel 4.0.3-3 The Xfce4 desktop environment pane
ii xfce4-session 0.1.3+20031213-2 XFce4 Session Manager
ii xfce4-themes 4.0.0.final-1 Theme files for Xfce4
ii xfce4-utils 4.0.5-2 Various tools for XFce
ii xfdesktop4 4.0.0.final-1 Provides desktop background and ro
ii xffm4 4.0.0.final-1 File manager for the Xfce4 desktop
ii xffm4-icons 4.0.0.final-1 Icons for xffm4, the FM of XFce4 ii xfwm4 4.0.0.final-1 window manager of the XFce project
ii xfwm4-themes 4.0.0.final-1 Theme files for xfwm4

You have a real mismash of packages here. How did you manage that?

I'd really recommend upgrading all your packages or you'll end up with a
really mixed and unpredictable system.


Simon.

--
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From: [email protected]

Simon Huggins wrote:

ii gtk2-engines-xfce 2.1.8-1.1 A GTK+-2.0 theme engine for Xfce >>ii xfce4-mcs-plugins 4.0.0.final-1 Special modules for the xfce4-mcs-
ii xfce4-panel 4.0.3-3 The Xfce4 desktop environment pane
ii xfce4-session 0.1.3+20031213-2 XFce4 Session Manager
ii xfce4-themes 4.0.0.final-1 Theme files for Xfce4
ii xfce4-utils 4.0.5-2 Various tools for XFce
ii xfdesktop4 4.0.0.final-1 Provides desktop background and ro
ii xffm4 4.0.0.final-1 File manager for the Xfce4 desktop
ii xffm4-icons 4.0.0.final-1 Icons for xffm4, the FM of XFce4 >>ii xfwm4 4.0.0.final-1 window manager of the XFce project
ii xfwm4-themes 4.0.0.final-1 Theme files for xfwm4

You have a real mismash of packages here. How did you manage that?

Like I said, there is no way you can upgrade all of the xfce4 packages
at once, aside from doing a full blown apt-get upgrade, or manually
upgrading each of xfce4 dependencies.

That is unlike other packages such as kdebase - it's entire set of
dependencies is versioned, so when one upgrades kdebase, it upgrades the
entire set - I believe such behaviour is more desirable.

I'd really recommend upgrading all your packages or you'll end up with a >really mixed and unpredictable system.

I agree, which I did after reporting the bug:-)

--
Idan

My weblog at: http://idanso.dyndns.org/blog/



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From: [email protected]

On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 08:03:04AM +0300, Idan Sofer wrote:

Simon Huggins wrote:

You have a real mismash of packages here. How did you manage that?

Like I said, there is no way you can upgrade all of the xfce4 packages
at once, aside from doing a full blown apt-get upgrade, or manually
upgrading each of xfce4 dependencies.

Right but I don't think this is a bug in xfce4 meta package. I'd rather
not introduce versions on the dependencies.

That is unlike other packages such as kdebase - it's entire set of dependencies is versioned, so when one upgrades kdebase, it upgrades
the entire set - I believe such behaviour is more desirable.

Hmm, I can see your point but to be honest I would have thought that
most people would do a full upgrade and not pick and mix different
versions of the packages unless the knew what they were doing.

IM why did you for instance install xfce4 without having done a full
upgrade?

Perhaps if you can explain the rationale I'll be better able to
understand why having versioned dependencies could be a good thing.


Simon

--
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From: [email protected]

Simon Huggins wrote:

Hmm, I can see your point but to be honest I would have thought that
most people would do a full upgrade and not pick and mix different
versions of the packages unless the knew what they were doing.

IM why did you for instance install xfce4 without having done a full
upgrade?

Full upgrade at sid is not always desireable, it's labeled "unstable"
for a reason after all, most of the time upgrades will be smooth, but I
tend to avoid situations where's apache is not working properly, just
because I wished to upgrade mozilla.

So I usually tend to upgrade packages only when i need or have
to(security, bugfixes or features).

--
Idan

My weblog at: http://idanso.dyndns.org/blog/



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From: [email protected]

On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 02:32:35PM +0300, Idan Sofer wrote:

Simon Huggins wrote:

Hmm, I can see your point but to be honest I would have thought that
most people would do a full upgrade and not pick and mix different
versions of the packages unless the knew what they were doing.

IM why did you for instance install xfce4 without having done a full >upgrade?

Full upgrade at sid is not always desireable, it's labeled "unstable"
for a reason after all, most of the time upgrades will be smooth, but I
tend to avoid situations where's apache is not working properly, just
because I wished to upgrade mozilla.

So I usually tend to upgrade packages only when i need or have
to(security, bugfixes or features).

That's fine but I think this classes you as a special case and given you
have to pick and choose which packages you upgrade anyway, I'm not sure
why I should add versioned dependencies to the meta-package.

Currently the meta-package's version doesn't reflect the version of
xfce4 in Debian in any case given it's at 4.0.5-1 whilst all of xfce4
4.0.6 is in sid.

I don't think your upgrade strategy is sustainable as you may get
yourself into all sorts of interesting situations. Actual dependencies
will be tracked properly (and if they are not feel free to file more
bugs) but I'm not convinced more work need to be done than that.

Feel free to try to persuade me otherwise but I don't think I'm going to
upload a new xfce4 before sarge unless there is very convincing
reasoning.

Simon.

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