XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

Martin Michlmayr wrote:

I think the open use logo itself should be DFSG-free, but it probably
should be accompanied by a trademark license. I'll contact SPI to see
what needs to be done to change the license, and I've asked Matthew
Garrett to discuss the trademark issue with SPI's trademark lawyer and
others on spi-trademark.

What would a good license for the logo be?

There are two options: separate copyright and trademark licenses and a "fused" license.

OPTION 1
Copyright license:
Copyright 1999 Software in the Public Interest
Permission is hereby granted to anyone to copy, modify, display or perform publicly, and/or redistribute this logo, with or without modifications.
(This copyright license is not intended to grant a trademark license; see
below for trademark license.)

Trademark license:
This logo is a trademark/service mark of the Debian Project.
Permission is hereby granted to anyone to use this logo or a modified version to refer to the Debian project. It does not indicate endorsement by the project.
Modified versions which are sufficiently different so that they do not consitute trademark use or infringment -- that is, those which are not likely to cause confusion with Debian's logo in the minds of those seeing them --
may be used for any purpose. (This trademark license is not intended to restrict or alter the grant of copyright license; see above for copyright license.)

OPTION 2
Fused license:
Copyright 1999 Software in the Public Interest
This logo is a trademark/service mark of the Debian Project.
Permission is hereby granted to anyone to copy, modify, display or perform publicly, and/or redistribute this logo, with or without modifications. Permission is hereby granted to anyone to use this logo or a modified version to refer to the Debian project. It does not indicate endorsement by the project. Additionally, permission is hereby granted to anyone to use
modified versions which are sufficiently different so that they do not consitute trademark use or infringment (that is, those which are not likely
to cause confusion with Debian's logo in the minds of those seeing them) for any purpose.

---
It should be possible to polish these a little (particularly the "constitute trademark use or infringement" line), but this is about right.


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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader wrote:

What would a good license for the logo be?

I'd personally suggest a MIT style license like the following:

Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders>

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining
a copy of this Work, to deal in the Work without restriction,
including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge,
publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Work, and
to permit persons to whom the Work is furnished to do so, subject to
the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall accompany
all copies or substantial portions of the Work.

THE WORK IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY
CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT,
TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE WORK
OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE WORK.


[Astute readers will note a s/software/work/; and s/be included
in/accompany/; from the default license to deal with the fact that
this is an image, and the work will typically be so small that it
can't include the copyright directly. Someone may be able to come up
with better verbiage to avoid this bug...]

As far as I know, the above license is compatible with just about
everything, is trivially DFSG free, and should allow us to use the
image easily.


Don Armstrong

--
"Because," Fee-5 explained patiently, "I was born in the fifth row. Any fool would understand that, but against stupidity the very Gods themselves
contend in vain."
-- Alfred Bester _The Computer Connection_ p19

http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu

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From: [email protected]

Package: grub
Version: 0.95+cvs20040624-7
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

Hi,

I noticed recently that Debian Grub now had splash image support...
but no splash images! I wanted a nice Debian splash screen, and so
I've created some. Feel free to include them in a future release.

They can be found here:

http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/grub-images/

I suggest this example configuration:
# Graphical boot
root (hd0,4)
splashimage /boot/grub/debian-boot.xpm.gz
foreground ffffff
background d70751


The best splash screen is debian-boot.xpm.gz. I've included the Gimp
XCF image which was the source (the XPM has had the layers merged, the
colours reduced to 14 using the custom palette also found here, and the
sarge logo was manually edited to remove nasty artifacts. I've also
included the XCF source, a modified version of openlogo.eps (I added a
black background and changed the text to white, which was then rendered
to an RGB image with nice anti-aliasing). The Sarge stripes were taken
from DebianPlanet.

Feel free to adapt the XCF for whatever you like. Everything is in
layers, so you can move it all around, add new stuff, etc. I'm no
artist, so feel free to improve upon it!

Regards,
Roger


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
APT prefers unstable
APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.7
Locale: LANG=en_GB, LC_CTYPE=en_GB (ignored: LC_ALL set to en_GB)

Versions of packages grub depends on:
ii libc6 2.3.2.ds1-16 GNU C Library: Shared libraries an ii libncurses5 5.4-4 Shared libraries for terminal hand

-- no debconf information


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From: [email protected]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:37:50PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

Package: grub
Version: 0.95+cvs20040624-7
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

Hi,

I noticed recently that Debian Grub now had splash image support...
but no splash images! I wanted a nice Debian splash screen, and so
I've created some. Feel free to include them in a future release.

Hi Roger,

I appreciate your interest, but we're already working on this area. Luis Rodriguez (CCed) is preparing a package that will include GPLed splash images, which is almost finished.

Assuming your images are free and properly licensed (preferably GPL), could
you coordinate it with him so that your images are integrated in his package?

Thanks.

--
Robert Millan

(Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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From: [email protected]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Robert Millan <[email protected]> writes:

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:37:50PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

Package: grub
Version: 0.95+cvs20040624-7
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

Hi,

I noticed recently that Debian Grub now had splash image support...
but no splash images! I wanted a nice Debian splash screen, and so
I've created some. Feel free to include them in a future release.

Hi Roger,

I appreciate your interest, but we're already working on this area. Luis Rodriguez (CCed) is preparing a package that will include GPLed splash images,
which is almost finished.

Super!

Assuming your images are free and properly licensed (preferably GPL), could you coordinate it with him so that your images are integrated in his package?

Sure.


Luis,

You are free to distribute the images under the GPL. The XCF image is
produced from the Debian "Open Use" logo, also provided here

http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/grub-images/

and I am happy for all my work to be distributed under the GPL. The
only part I'm not sure about is the Sarge "stripes", which came from DebianPlanet. I'm waiting to hear back from them about that. Feel
free to modify the images as you like--I know I'm not much of an artist!

BTW, thanks very much for your "GNU GRUB splashimage howto", which was
what inspired me to create some splash images. It's very well done!


Regards,
Roger

- --
Roger Leigh

Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/
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From: [email protected]

Roger,

On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 11:36:58PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Robert Millan <[email protected]> writes:

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:37:50PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

Package: grub
Version: 0.95+cvs20040624-7
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

Hi,

I noticed recently that Debian Grub now had splash image support...
but no splash images! I wanted a nice Debian splash screen, and so
I've created some. Feel free to include them in a future release.

Hi Roger,

I appreciate your interest, but we're already working on this area. Luis Rodriguez (CCed) is preparing a package that will include GPLed splash images,
which is almost finished.

Super!

Assuming your images are free and properly licensed (preferably GPL), could you coordinate it with him so that your images are integrated in his package?

Sure.

Luis,

You are free to distribute the images under the GPL. The XCF image is produced from the Debian "Open Use" logo, also provided here

http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/grub-images/

Awesome splash image!

and I am happy for all my work to be distributed under the GPL. The
only part I'm not sure about is the Sarge "stripes", which came from DebianPlanet. I'm waiting to hear back from them about that. Feel
free to modify the images as you like--I know I'm not much of an artist!

Heh, its great, thanks. So far what I've been doing for
grub-splashimages package was to request authors to insert into the xpm
file a GPL C Header since xpm files are ASCII-text and accept C99
comments (I explain this now on the HOWTO you've read). Would it be
technically legal for you to do that for your splash image?

BTW, thanks very much for your "GNU GRUB splashimage howto", which was
what inspired me to create some splash images. It's very well done!

Why thank you Roger :), glad it was useful.

Looking forward to seeing some more splashimages from you,

Luis

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From: [email protected]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[email protected] (Luis R. Rodriguez) writes:

Roger,

On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 11:36:58PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

You are free to distribute the images under the GPL. The XCF image is
produced from the Debian "Open Use" logo, also provided here

http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/grub-images/

Awesome splash image!

and I am happy for all my work to be distributed under the GPL. The
only part I'm not sure about is the Sarge "stripes", which came from
DebianPlanet. I'm waiting to hear back from them about that. Feel
free to modify the images as you like--I know I'm not much of an artist!

Heh, its great, thanks. So far what I've been doing for
grub-splashimages package was to request authors to insert into the xpm
file a GPL C Header since xpm files are ASCII-text and accept C99
comments (I explain this now on the HOWTO you've read). Would it be technically legal for you to do that for your splash image?

The Debian logo and name are from the Open Use logo, copyrighted by
SPI. The derived work is copyrighted by me, and I'm waiting to hear
back about the Sarge stripes (I can redraw them if needed). I can
certainly add a header detailing this--but I need to hear back from DebianPlanet first.


- --
Roger Leigh

Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/
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From: [email protected]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 07:03:13PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

The Debian logo and name are from the Open Use logo, copyrighted by
SPI. The derived work is copyrighted by me, and I'm waiting to hear
back about the Sarge stripes (I can redraw them if needed). I can
certainly add a header detailing this--but I need to hear back from DebianPlanet first.

Is the "Open Use" logo DFSG-free?

--
Robert Millan

(Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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From: [email protected]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Robert Millan <[email protected]> writes:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 07:03:13PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

The Debian logo and name are from the Open Use logo, copyrighted by
SPI. The derived work is copyrighted by me, and I'm waiting to hear
back about the Sarge stripes (I can redraw them if needed). I can
certainly add a header detailing this--but I need to hear back from
DebianPlanet first.

Is the "Open Use" logo DFSG-free?

- From http://www.debian.org/logos/ :

Debian Open Use Logo License

Copyright (c) 1999 Software in the Public Interest
This logo or a modified version may be used by anyone to refer to the
Debian project, but does not indicate endorsement by the project.

Note: we would appreciate that you make the image a link to http://www.debian.org/ if you use it on a web page.


I can't see a problem there (it's much stricter for the "official use"
logo), but there are no restrictions upon use or derived works, so I
think it's OK. (It's certainly used by many other Debian packages!)


Regards,
Roger


- --
Roger Leigh

Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/
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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:18PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

Is the "Open Use" logo DFSG-free?

- From http://www.debian.org/logos/ :

Debian Open Use Logo License

Copyright (c) 1999 Software in the Public Interest
This logo or a modified version may be used by anyone to refer to the
Debian project, but does not indicate endorsement by the project.

Uh :(. It doesn't explicitly allow redistribution, nor distribution of modified works. It doesn't allow to charge a fee for redistribution.. etc. Doesn't sound free to me.

I can't see a problem there (it's much stricter for the "official use"
logo), but there are no restrictions upon use or derived works, so I
think it's OK. (It's certainly used by many other Debian packages!)

IANAL, but AFAIK when a license doesn't explicitly allow something, it means it's not allowed.

I'm adding CC to debian-legal. Can you people send your advice?

Thanks.

--
Robert Millan

(Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 03:23:22PM -0700, David Schleef wrote:

The Debian Open Use Logo License is generally considered to be
non-DFSG free. However, it appears to be a widely held belief
that Debian should have _some_ logo that is DFSG-free, and that
the license of the open logo should be changed to make this so.
I think because of the latter, there has never been a logo purge
of main. Perhaps an attempted logo purge would convince SPI to
act on this matter.

What does "convince SPI" mean here? I thought SPI is governed by the
Debian developers.

It's somewhat amusing that debian-legal routinely convinces people
to change to DFSG-free licenses, but can't seem to affect its own organization.

The real question is why a project that is dedicated to free software did release a non-free logo in the first place...

--
Robert Millan

(Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 12:29:08AM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:

What does "convince SPI" mean here? I thought SPI is governed by the
Debian developers.

Er, "convince the SPI board to pass a measure changing the license".



dave...



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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 09:46:53PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:18PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

I can't see a problem there (it's much stricter for the "official use" logo), but there are no restrictions upon use or derived works, so I
think it's OK. (It's certainly used by many other Debian packages!)

IANAL, but AFAIK when a license doesn't explicitly allow something, it means it's not allowed.

I'm adding CC to debian-legal. Can you people send your advice?

The Debian Open Use Logo License is generally considered to be
non-DFSG free. However, it appears to be a widely held belief
that Debian should have _some_ logo that is DFSG-free, and that
the license of the open logo should be changed to make this so.
I think because of the latter, there has never been a logo purge
of main. Perhaps an attempted logo purge would convince SPI to
act on this matter.

See this thread for additional commentary:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/09/msg00840.html

It's somewhat amusing that debian-legal routinely convinces people
to change to DFSG-free licenses, but can't seem to affect its own
organization.



dave...




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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Robert Millan <[email protected]> writes:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:18PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

Is the "Open Use" logo DFSG-free?

- From http://www.debian.org/logos/ :

Debian Open Use Logo License

Copyright (c) 1999 Software in the Public Interest
This logo or a modified version may be used by anyone to refer to the
Debian project, but does not indicate endorsement by the project.

Uh :(. It doesn't explicitly allow redistribution, nor distribution of modified works. It doesn't allow to charge a fee for redistribution.. etc. Doesn't sound free to me.

Ahh....

I naïvely assumed that our own logo would be redistributable and DFSG
free. How wrong :-(

IANAL, but AFAIK when a license doesn't explicitly allow something, it means it's not allowed.

I agree. I just thought that Debian stuff would be DFSG free by
default, as required by the Social Contract...


Regards,
Roger

- --
Roger Leigh

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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 12:54:06AM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

I agree. I just thought that Debian stuff would be DFSG free by
default, as required by the Social Contract...

Yeah, how sad.. Well, then please merge the unaffected images into Luis' package. I hope when we start nuking the non-free logo here and there, this will teach the SPI a lesson.

--
Robert Millan

(Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 02:12:15AM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 12:54:06AM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

I agree. I just thought that Debian stuff would be DFSG free by
default, as required by the Social Contract...

Yeah, how sad.. Well, then please merge the unaffected images into Luis' package. I hope when we start nuking the non-free logo here and there, this will teach the SPI a lesson.

How about we just e-mail SPI and bug them to change the license. Screw
this. This is unacceptable.

Luis

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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

can someone detail where we send this and what we should say?

perhaps spi-general?

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:08PM -0400, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:

How about we just e-mail SPI and bug them to change the license. Screw
this. This is unacceptable.

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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:08PM -0400, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 02:12:15AM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 12:54:06AM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

I agree. I just thought that Debian stuff would be DFSG free by
default, as required by the Social Contract...

Yeah, how sad.. Well, then please merge the unaffected images into Luis' package. I hope when we start nuking the non-free logo here and there, this
will teach the SPI a lesson.

How about we just e-mail SPI and bug them to change the license. Screw
this. This is unacceptable.

I'm not sure if that would fix the problem, but at least it's worth trying.

Sure, you're encouraged to do it.. IIRC, SPI can be reached at www.spi-inc.org. Good luck :)

--
Robert Millan

(Debra and Ian) (Gnu's Not (UNiplexed Information and Computing System))/\ (kernel of *(Berkeley Software Distribution))


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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 02:42:35AM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:08PM -0400, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 02:12:15AM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 12:54:06AM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:

I agree. I just thought that Debian stuff would be DFSG free by default, as required by the Social Contract...

Yeah, how sad.. Well, then please merge the unaffected images into Luis' package. I hope when we start nuking the non-free logo here and there, this
will teach the SPI a lesson.

How about we just e-mail SPI and bug them to change the license. Screw this. This is unacceptable.

I'm not sure if that would fix the problem, but at least it's worth trying.

Sure, you're encouraged to do it.. IIRC, SPI can be reached at www.spi-inc.org. Good luck :)

I am by no means certain of this, but if my memory serves, that
copyright was assigned to SPI by someone in Debian. Perhaps you could
talk to the DPL so SPI could have some sort of formal word from Debian
that it wants the license changed?

Or better yet, e-mail the trademark list --
[email protected].

-- John


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XPost: linux.debian.legal
From: [email protected]

SPI Trademark Team, SPI Legal Counsel, and Debian SPI Project Leader,

I am the mantiner of the new grub-splashimages debian package and was
recently submitted a very nice Debian splashimage [0]. The splashimage makes use of the Debian Open Use Logo [1] but unfortunately due to default licencing and to the very vague copyright notice, and confirmed by debian-legal on
a thread regarding this [2] the logos are not compatible with the DFSG
[3]. This is horrible. Debian should set an example and use the DFSG
for its artwork. We would like to ask for a change of the license to the
Open Use Debian logo so that it is compatible with the DFSG.

Looking forward for a response,

The GRUB Packaging Team

[0] http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/grub-images/
[1] http://debian.org/logos
[2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=265352
[3] http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html#guidelines

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