• Consultation on license documents

    From =?UTF-8?B?5YiY5rab?=@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 17 14:20:01 2023
    XPost: linux.debian.user

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 17 15:00:01 2023
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 09:05:21PM +0800, 刘涛 wrote:
    1. Must various software packages in the Debian community contain a license file "license.txt"? Without this file, how does the users know about the license usage of the package?

    Each package must contain a file named "copyright" which contains the license(s) which apply to that package.

    On an installed system, these are in the /usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/
    directories:

    unicorn:~$ ls /usr/share/doc/libc6
    changelog.Debian.gz copyright NEWS.gz README.hesiod.gz changelog.gz NEWS.Debian.gz README.Debian.gz

    2. I found that each software package has a "Copyleft" document, and a lot of license information is also listed in this document. Therefore, I would like to ask, when the two documents "license.txt" and "Copyleft" exist in the software package at the
    same time, which one should the user take as the basis, and how to deal with the situation where the declared license information of the two documents is inconsistent, Which shall prevail?

    The term "copyleft" is used by GNU (specifically Richard Stallman, I
    believe) to describe the GNU General Public License (GPL). I've never
    seen that term used in any other context. It's certainly not the name
    of any file present in Debian packages at large.

    3. If the software package only contains "Copyleft" documents, can users refer to the license information declared in this document?

    Again, the license(s) are in the "copyright" files, one per package.

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  • From davidson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 17 17:30:01 2023
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 刘涛 wrote:

    Hello, I have the following questions to consult and look forward to
    your authoritative answers.
    [OP's legal questions elided]

    Legal issues
    https://www.debian.org/legal/

    The mailing list for Debian legal matters is

    [email protected]

    To subscribe, send a message with the word "subscribe" as the
    subject to

    [email protected]

    or use the mailing list subscription web page:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/

    The list is archived at the list archives [available at url above].

    --
    Ce qui est important est rarement urgent
    et ce qui est urgent est rarement important
    -- Dwight David Eisenhower

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  • From Gunnar Wolf@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 17 19:30:01 2023
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    Greg Wooledge dijo [Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 09:36:26AM -0400]:
    2. I found that each software package has a "Copyleft" document,
    and a lot of license information is also listed in this
    document. Therefore, I would like to ask, when the two documents "license.txt" and "Copyleft" exist in the software package at the
    same time, which one should the user take as the basis, and how to
    deal with the situation where the declared license information of
    the two documents is inconsistent, Which shall prevail?

    The term "copyleft" is used by GNU (specifically Richard Stallman, I
    believe) to describe the GNU General Public License (GPL). I've never
    seen that term used in any other context. It's certainly not the name
    of any file present in Debian packages at large.

    The term might have been _coined_ by Richard Stallman, but is quite
    used throughout the Free Software communities. Any license which (as
    the GPL does) requires all further distributions of derivatives of the
    original work under the same terms (particularly for software,
    including full sources and the right to modify them) are termed
    copyleft in general; non-code licenses such as the Creative Commons (share-alike variants) are also copyleft licenses.

    3. If the software package only contains "Copyleft" documents, can
    users refer to the license information declared in this document?

    Again, the license(s) are in the "copyright" files, one per package.

    Right. I would add to your initial explanation that, having a /usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/copyright, having any other files installed as
    part of a binary package with licensing details can be considered a
    bug, and only /usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/copyright should be considered authoritative in a Debian system.

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?5YiY5rab?=@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 18 04:30:01 2023
    XPost: linux.debian.user

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  • From Jonas Smedegaard@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 18 08:50:01 2023
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    Quoting 刘涛 (2023-03-18 03:49:34)
    Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I originally wanted to say that every software package in Debian will have a "copyright" document, but the input method was mistakenly typed as copyleft. Because I found that every package in Debian will have a "copyright"
    document, but not every package has a "license.txt" document. So I want to confirm that we users want to know the license usage of the software package, which document should prevail. In addition, when the license information declared in the two
    documents is inconsistent, how should we deal with it, and which document shall prevail.

    Some projects include a file intended to cover the whole project
    (typically located in the root folder) containing only a general license
    and nothing else (no copyright statements).
    Such a file has no legal effect over other files from simply being
    present in the project. To have effect over other files the project
    need to have its copyright holders *grant* a license.

    Some projects include a file intended to cover the whole project
    (typically located in the root folder) where someone claims to hold
    copyright and state that they as copyright holder *grant* certain
    license over all or some portion of the project. This affects those
    other files that the statement is about. If multiple copyright claims
    and/or multiple license granting statements, then only the licensing
    granted by the copyright holder has effect - i.e. if same copyright
    holder grants multiple licenses then possibly (depending on wording)
    *either* of those licenses apply, free of choice for each user, but
    since only a copyright holder has the right to grant a license, if
    someone claims copyright over a whole project but parts of the project
    in reality was relicensed from someone else then only that someone else
    had the right to license their parts.

    If unclear who owns what and/or who granted what, then beware that legal
    rules are different from math and logic: In the end copyright and
    licensing statements are *intents* and their legal effect is only
    certain when tried in a courtroom (and even then may be tried again with potentially different legal interpretation in another courtroom for same
    or another legal jurisdiction).

    Common rule of thumb is that the most narrow statements have effect.

    So if you have a code project with a bunch of code files, and one file LICENSE.txt containing the GPLv3 licensing text and nothing else, and
    another file COPYING.txt that says the equivalent o "I, Jonas, claim
    to be the owner of creative works within this code project, and I grant
    anyone the rights to use and copy and modify what I control the rights
    over, by the legal principles of the Apache-2.0 general public license"
    then that project is licensed as Apache-2.0 and *not* as GPL-3.

    But if that same project, in addition to those two text files, also
    within each code file contains a statement that I, Jonas, am copyright
    holder and grants the rights of BSD-3, then those files are licensed as
    BSD-3. If nothing else in the project is copyright-protectable, then
    the project is dual-licensed as *either* BSD-3 *or* Apache-2.0 (but
    still as GPL-3 because that license only *exist* but nothing in the
    project has been *granted* those rules that it represents).

    If instead, in addition to my copyright claim and Apache-licensing of
    the project as a whole, the copyright holder of each and every copyright-protecable file within the project was someone else, then my
    claim had no effect over those files, and in reality the project would
    be licensed as BSD-3 (not as Apache-2.0).

    Standard disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so only use my input here as inspiration but seek a lawyer if you want legal certainty.


    - Jonas

    --
    * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
    * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
    * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

    [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private

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  • From Gunnar Wolf@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 18 09:00:01 2023
    [ Dropping the Cc: to [email protected] - Please don't
    cross-post if you can avoid it! That is, please don't send the same
    mail to multiple mailing lists ]

    刘涛 dijo [Sat, Mar 18, 2023 at 10:49:34AM +0800]:
    Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I originally wanted to say that every
    software package in Debian will have a "copyright" document, but the
    input method was mistakenly typed as copyleft. Because I found that
    every package in Debian will have a "copyright" document, but not
    every package has a "license.txt" document. So I want to confirm
    that we users want to know the license usage of the software
    package, which document should prevail. In addition, when the
    license information declared in the two documents is inconsistent,
    how should we deal with it, and which document shall prevail.

    My first answer to this question was "/usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/copyright
    is authoritative and should prevail", but on a second thought, I must
    agree with Theodore Ts'o, who rightfully said:

    I am not a lawyer, and even if I were a lawyer, I am not *your*
    lawyer, so I am not in a position to give legal advice. If you
    want an authoratative opinion, you will need to find a lawyer who
    is willing to give you formal legal advice, and they will very ask
    to be paid in order to give you that opinion.

    So... There is no one-size-fits-all answer here.

    But if you find a /usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/copyright document being
    inconsistent with a license.txt file (or with any licensing header
    included as part of any of the files, or whatever like that), please
    file it as a high-severity bug!

    Greetings,

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Gunnar Wolf on Sat Mar 18 10:10:01 2023
    On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 10:47:46PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:

    [...]

    My first answer to this question was "/usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/copyright
    is authoritative [...]

    agree with Theodore Ts'o, who rightfully said:

    I am not a lawyer, and even if I were a lawyer, I am not *your*
    lawyer [...]

    So... There is no one-size-fits-all answer here.

    Starting with the little dirty detail that copyright legislation and
    the ways it's applied varies wildly across the world.

    Even Ted Ts'o's quote above is something you'll mostly hear in the US
    context, since the kinds of legal hot waters you may find yourself by
    posing as a lawyer, giving legal advise as a non-layer or advising a non-customer will vary in temperature by country. The US seems to be particularly hot in that area :-)

    Cheers
    --
    t

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