On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:49 PM caio santos da silva wrote:

My is Caio and I have a little idea for Debian system. My idea to you is the creation of a system exclusive for Flash USB, external HDD or SSD. Already exist the GNU/Linux Slax, such system able to install directly in a Flash USB, and its performance

is really good, but it is a simple system. Thus my idea is about the creation of Debian for portables devices, which will be really interesting have a portable OS or multiples portables OS for new uses.

That sounds a bit like Debian Live, which are read-only images that
can be written to CD/DVD/USB/etc:

https://www.debian.org/CD/live/
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-live/

If you mean a normal read-write system that just lives on USB, a
normal Debian install can do that and has been able to since at least
2006, I used Debian in that configuration myself around that time.
These days it will be harder to find public/shared computers (Internet
cafes were common back then) and harder to find computers where the owner/sysadmin allows booting from USB, so you will probably need
portable Windows/macOS virtualisation tools installed on a second
partition. Also booting from USB on UEFI systems is likely more
complicated than the BIOS systems I was using so some booting tweaks
might be needed.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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Hi Caio,

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 07:08:08PM +0000, caio santos da silva wrote:

Hi Debian Team

My is Caio and I have a little idea for Debian system. My idea to you is
the creation of a system exclusive for Flash USB, external HDD or SSD.
Already exist the GNU/Linux Slax, such system able to install directly in
a Flash USB, and its performance is really good, but it is a simple
system. Thus my idea is about the creation of Debian for portables
devices, which will be really interesting have a portable OS or multiples
portables OS for new uses.

Sounds like a useful idea!

I hope that idea can be good for all users and new applications.

Sure it is.

As with many things in Debian, however, it won't really happen unless
someone spends time on actually developing the necessary software for
that to be possible.

This could be you! All it needs is for you to look at what would be
needed to make it possible, and work on them one thing at a time until
we have something that could work.

I think that at this point, the closest we have to what you're
suggesting is the Debian Live system; these produce ISOs that, I
believe, can be written to a USB disk from which you can then boot. I'm
not sure if that is what you're suggesting, but if it isn't, then
perhaps you can look at what's missing to make it work better.

Think you're up for it?

--
w@uter.{be,co.za}
wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}

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This message is in MIME format.

HI,
There are many distros that can boot from external devices, including
many Debian derivatives. Search the web for 'Linux live medium'. If
you see 'live CD', normally it means only the type of image that is
installed, not literally a CD.

José Vieira

----- Mensagem de caio santos da silva <[email protected]> ---------

Data: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 05:26:46 +0000

De: caio santos da silva <[email protected]>

Assunto: Re: Debian for flash usb, external hdd or ssd

Para: [email protected]

Cc: [email protected]

Thanks for the answer. I would like be able to create that
technology, but I still have a lot to learn about Unix.

I will try to install Debian into my USB flash driver, and pray to
it works. I did it once, with Linux Mint, trying to install it into
my USB flash, but the OS performance was very slow.

Thanks again ;) good weekend. Bye.

Em 25 de jun de 2021, em 18:36, Wouter Verhelst <[email protected]> escreveu:

Hi Caio,

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 07:08:08PM +0000, caio santos da silva wrote:

Hi Debian Team



My is Caio and I have a little idea for Debian system. My idea to you is >>>
the creation of a system exclusive for Flash USB, external HDD or SSD.

Already exist the GNU/Linux Slax, such system able to install directly in >>>
a Flash USB, and its performance is really good, but it is a simple

system. Thus my idea is about the creation of Debian for portables

devices, which will be really interesting have a portable OS or multiples >>>
portables OS for new uses.

Sounds like a useful idea!

I hope that idea can be good for all users and new applications.

Sure it is.

As with many things in Debian, however, it won't really happen unless

someone spends time on actually developing the necessary software for

that to be possible.

This could be you! All it needs is for you to look at what would be

needed to make it possible, and work on them one thing at a time until

we have something that could work.

I think that at this point, the closest we have to what you're

suggesting is the Debian Live system; these produce ISOs that, I

believe, can be written to a USB disk from which you can then boot. I'm

not sure if that is what you're suggesting, but if it isn't, then

perhaps you can look at what's missing to make it work better.

Think you're up for it?

----- Fim da mensagem de caio santos da silva <[email protected]> -----

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<p>HI,<br>
There are many distros that can boot from external devices, including many Debian derivatives. Search the web for 'Linux live medium'. If you see 'live CD', normally it means only the type of image that is installed, not literally a CD.<br></p>
<div class="impComposeSignature">
<div>Jos&eacute; Vieira<br></div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<p><br></p>
<div>----- Mensagem de caio santos da silva &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; ---------<br></div>
<div>Data: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 05:26:46 +0000<br></div>
<div>De: caio santos da silva &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br></div>
<div>Assunto: Re: Debian for flash usb, external hdd or ssd<br></div> <div>Para: <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br></div> <div>Cc: <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br></div>
<p><br></p>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none; margin:0px; padding-left:0;margin-inline-start: 0;margin-inline-end: 0;">
<div dir="auto"><br></div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>Thanks for the answer. I would like be able to create that technology, but I still have a lot to learn about Unix.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>I will try to install Debian into my USB flash driver, and pray to it works. I did it once, with Linux Mint, trying to install it into my USB flash, but the OS performance was very slow.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks again ;) good weekend. Bye.<br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Em 25 de jun de 2021, em 18:36, Wouter Verhelst &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; escreveu:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="blue">
</pre>
<div>Hi Caio,<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 07:08:08PM +0000, caio santos da silva wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">
<p><br></p>
<div>Hi Debian Team<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>My is Caio and I have a little idea for Debian system. My idea to you is<br></div>
<div>the creation of a system exclusive for Flash USB, external HDD or SSD.<br></div>
<div>Already exist the GNU/Linux Slax, such system able to install directly in<br></div>
<div>a Flash USB, and its performance is really good, but it is a simple<br></div>
<div>system. Thus my idea is about the creation of Debian for portables<br></div>
<div>devices, which will be really interesting have a portable OS or multiples<br></div>
<div>portables OS for new uses.<br></div>
<p><br></p>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Sounds like a useful idea!<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">
<p>I hope that idea can be good for all users and new applications.<br></p> </blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Sure it is.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>As with many things in Debian, however, it won't really happen unless<br></div>
<div>someone spends time on actually developing the necessary software for<br></div>
<div>that to be possible.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This could be you! All it needs is for you to look at what would be<br></div>
<div>needed to make it possible, and work on them one thing at a time until<br></div>
<div>we have something that could work.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I think that at this point, the closest we have to what you're<br></div> <div>suggesting is the Debian Live system; these produce ISOs that, I<br></div> <div>believe, can be written to a USB disk from which you can then boot. I'm<br></div>
<div>not sure if that is what you're suggesting, but if it isn't, then<br></div>
<div>perhaps you can look at what's missing to make it work better.<br></div> <div><br></div>
<div>Think you're up for it?<br></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>----- Fim da mensagem de caio santos da silva &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; -----<br></div>
<div><br></div>
</body>
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On 25.06.21 21:08, caio santos da silva wrote:

Hi Debian Team

My is Caio and I have a little idea for Debian system. My idea to you is
the creation of a system exclusive for Flash USB, external HDD or SSD. Already exist the GNU/Linux Slax, such system able to install directly
in a Flash USB, and its performance is really good, but it is a simple system. Thus my idea is about the creation of Debian for portables
devices, which will be really interesting have a portable OS or
multiples portables OS for new uses.

I hope that idea can be good for all users and new applications.

Bye.

I run my daily machine from a USB-Stick for years now without any
problems. I simply installed to the USB-Stick and not to the HDD. Of
course, USB3 is highly recommended over USB2. Nevertheless, USB2 does
also work for me and I am also using it daily.
My most important finding on system responsiveness is that minimum 2 MB
CPU cache is required, and at least 3 MB is wanted. This parameter to me
came out to be the most significant one to consider. Besides this, 4
years ago (I did not compare it recently) the usage of the GNOME desktop
slowed down responsiveness strongly and I therefore decided for KDE
Plasma which does not make me any problems on an almost 10 years old 4
GB RAM and Intel Core2Duo CPU hardware.
Good luck!
Marco.

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Marco M�ller:

On 25.06.21 21:08, caio santos da silva wrote:

Hi Debian Team

My is Caio and I have a little idea for Debian system. My idea to you is the >> creation of a system exclusive for Flash USB, external HDD or SSD. Already >> exist the GNU/Linux Slax, such system able to install directly in a Flash USB,
and its performance is really good, but it is a simple system. Thus my idea is
about the creation of Debian for portables devices, which will be really
interesting have a portable OS or multiples portables OS for new uses.

I hope that idea can be good for all users and new applications.

Bye.

I run my daily machine from a USB-Stick for years now without any problems. I simply installed to the USB-Stick and not to the HDD. Of course, USB3 is highly
recommended over USB2. Nevertheless, USB2 does also work for me and I am also using it daily.
My most important finding on system responsiveness is that minimum 2 MB CPU cache is required, and at least 3 MB is wanted. This parameter to me came out to
be the most significant one to consider. Besides this, 4 years ago (I did not compare it recently) the usage of the GNOME desktop slowed down responsiveness
strongly and I therefore decided for KDE Plasma which does not make me any problems on an almost 10 years old 4 GB RAM and Intel Core2Duo CPU hardware. Good luck!
Marco

There's one additional suggestion I have for running Debian on Flash sticks, which is to turn off journaling on the filesystem. Journaling causes many re-writes to small areas on Flash memory, which at least on some Flash sticks can cause the Flash to fail much more rapidly. How rapidly the Flash cells will fail depends on how many rewrites the Flash can tolerate and how the "wear leveling" algorithm in the Flash's memory management operates.

A few Flash devices I had a few years ago (USB sticks, SD cards, CF cards, etc) didn't survive the first load of Debian onto it, after which they were unusable.
One friend of mine had the same thing happen with an older SSD drive, but I haven't experienced that myself so far.

Journaling can be turned off for ext4 filesystem this way, while unmounted:
tune2fs -O ^has_journal <device>

Checking the setting has taken is done with:
tune2fs -l <device>

and look that the "has_journal" option has disappeared.

If the device is a boot drive, to flip the has_journal bit requires booting some
kind of "live" distro to do the task.
And that's it; just use the drive normally afterwards.

I've been using this on all filesystems on Flash media (USB sticks, SD cards, CF
cards, SSD drives, including for boot drives of these types) for many years and have not run into any issues as a result so far. Crashes and power drops have occasionally caused some "normal" filesystem corruption from such an event, but so far it's always been recoverable.

I learned about removing ext4 journaling after reading Ted Ts'o suggest it. I used to use ext2 filesystem for Flash drives before ext4, because AFAIK ext3 didn't have the option of disabling the journal.

Further reading:
---------------- https://thunk.org/tytso/blog/2009/03/01/ssds-journaling-and-noatimerelatime/ https://cubethethird.wordpress.com/2018/02/05/improving-ssd-lifetime-on-linux-what-i-learned-not-to-do/

-- Chris

--
Chris Knadle
[email protected]
Debian Developer

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