• Are follow-up steps for Lomiri desktop required?

    From Roland Clobus@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 22 17:00:01 2024
    Copy: [email protected]
    Copy: [email protected]

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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Roland Clobus on Wed May 22 17:40:02 2024
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Roland,
    (Cc:ing Guido who also works on Lomiri in Debian with correct now)

    On Mi 22 Mai 2024 16:50:02 CEST, Roland Clobus wrote:

    Hello installer team,

    I've noticed that (currently as draft) preparations [1] are ongoing
    to add Lomiri as task-lomiri-desktop into task-desktop.

    Is it intended to have Lomiri available in the installer and to have
    live images?

    If so, it would need some coordination to have it all set up. (I'm
    thinking of d-i, regular builds, openQA, Jenkins, live-build, ...)

    With kind regards,
    Roland Clobs

    [1] https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/30/

    The plan is indeed to propose Lomiri as possible selection for a
    desktop environment in D-I.

    Unfortunately, I don't know what steps are required to get Lomiri in.
    Neither do I know who has a say in this, where it gets decided what
    gets included as installer option in D-I and what not.

    The Lomiri Operating Environment packaging for Debian is currently
    seeing quite a boot because we have found a sponsor that finance the
    related work. The overall goal is to have Lomiri available in Debian,
    so we can pre-install a Debian based tablet OS for Debian Edu.

    Thanks for picking this up starting the discussion!
    Mike (aka sunweaver at d.o)
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 22 18:00:01 2024
    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2024-05-22):
    The plan is indeed to propose Lomiri as possible selection for a
    desktop environment in D-I.

    Unfortunately, I don't know what steps are required to get Lomiri in.
    Neither do I know who has a say in this, where it gets decided what
    gets included as installer option in D-I and what not.

    In d-i, pkgsel starts tasksel, so if that's available in tasksel…

    The Lomiri Operating Environment packaging for Debian is currently seeing quite a boot because we have found a sponsor that finance the related work.
    ^^^^

    Good one!


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Wed May 22 19:20:01 2024
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    On Mi 22 Mai 2024 17:50:06 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2024-05-22):

    The Lomiri Operating Environment packaging for Debian is currently seeing
    quite a boot because we have found a sponsor that finance the related work.
    ^^^^

    Good one!

    /me grins, s/boot/boost/, of course.

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 03:50:01 2025
    Hi,

    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> (2024-05-22):
    In d-i, pkgsel starts tasksel, so if that's available in tasksel…

    so we're one year later, there was quite some traffic on the MR, but
    nobody seems to have requested merging this as it is, confirming it's
    in a suitable enough state to get published to the masses:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/30

    Similar story on the Phosh thing, which was never even mentioned on this
    list:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/29

    If we were much earlier in the release cycle, we could consider “work
    in progress” quality tasks, but we're near the end, we would add to
    introduce new binary packages (which per freeze policy was already
    forbidden since the previous step), so I'm tempted to call all of this
    too late.

    Unless someone strongly feels differently, and convinces me to rethink
    this, I'll drop both entries from the wishlist for Trixie.


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Sun May 25 09:40:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Cyril

    On So 25 Mai 2025 03:42:10 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Hi,

    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> (2024-05-22):
    In d-i, pkgsel starts tasksel, so if that's available in tasksel…

    so we're one year later, there was quite some traffic on the MR, but
    nobody seems to have requested merging this as it is, confirming it's
    in a suitable enough state to get published to the masses:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/30

    I have sort of asked for Lomiri inclusion in tasksel and installer
    here three weeks ago: https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/30#note_609616 (and
    below).

    The missing bit mentioned there has been fixed by Guido directly after
    my request, so the MR is good to go from the Lomiri packagers'
    perspective.

    In Lomiri & co themselves, we still have various work items on the
    list (improving session stability, usability and Debian branding), but
    this is unrelated to this MR.

    I also plan to ask the release team for a Debian Edu exception
    regarding inclusion of an extra bin:pkg education-desktop-lomiri the
    coming week (unrelated here, just as a side note). The decision
    regarding Lomiri in tasksel sort of depends on the nature of that education-desktop-lomiri bin:pkg (normally we depend on/recommend the
    tasksel package and add edu things on top). If there will be no Lomiri tasksel bin:pkg, we will pull in Lomiri packages directly via the education-desktop-lomiri bin:pkg. (Doable, but less preferred).

    Similar story on the Phosh thing, which was never even mentioned on this list:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/29

    If we were much earlier in the release cycle, we could consider “work
    in progress” quality tasks, but we're near the end, we would add to introduce new binary packages (which per freeze policy was already
    forbidden since the previous step), so I'm tempted to call all of this
    too late.

    Don't know anything about Phosh status, but it would probably be good
    to Cc: @agx on this. (Done for this mail).

    Unless someone strongly feels differently, and convinces me to rethink
    this, I'll drop both entries from the wishlist for Trixie.

    I raise my hand here, because I strongly feel different regarding the
    Lomiri part of this mail. Thanks for sending this mail, so there still
    is some chance to turn the wheel (hopefully!).

    cheers,
    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=@21:1/5 to Mike Gabriel on Sun May 25 11:00:02 2025
    Hi Mike,

    thanks for adding me in the loop.

    On Sun, May 25, 2025 at 07:30:22AM +0000, Mike Gabriel wrote:
    [..snip..]
    Similar story on the Phosh thing, which was never even mentioned on this list:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/29

    If we were much earlier in the release cycle, we could consider “work
    in progress” quality tasks, but we're near the end, we would add to introduce new binary packages (which per freeze policy was already forbidden since the previous step), so I'm tempted to call all of this
    too late.

    Don't know anything about Phosh status, but it would probably be good to Cc: @agx on this. (Done for this mail).

    As noted in the above merge request I wasn't aware there's a necessity
    to raise it on the list. I would have hoped that opening an issue in
    gitlab is sufficient as the repository looked active.


    Unless someone strongly feels differently, and convinces me to rethink this, I'll drop both entries from the wishlist for Trixie.

    I raise my hand here, because I strongly feel different regarding the Lomiri part of this mail. Thanks for sending this mail, so there still is some chance to turn the wheel (hopefully!).

    Same here. I understand that it's late in the cycle but then the recent feedback in the MR asking for addition to the Trixie TODO list made me
    believe there's nothing else to do for the moment.

    Cheers,
    -- Guido


    cheers,
    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net




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  • From Holger Wansing@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 13:10:01 2025
    Hi all,

    Am 25. Mai 2025 03:42:10 MESZ schrieb Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]>:
    Hi,

    If we were much earlier in the release cycle, we could consider “work
    in progress” quality tasks, but we're near the end, we would add to >introduce new binary packages (which per freeze policy was already
    forbidden since the previous step), so I'm tempted to call all of this
    too late.

    Unless someone strongly feels differently, and convinces me to rethink
    this, I'll drop both entries from the wishlist for Trixie.

    Another point:
    do we want to extend the list of desktop environments in tasksel even more?
    We probably cannot have every desktop listed there, which is in Debian...
    (what about Enlightment, IceWM, ... ?)

    Of course this leads to the problematic question, which one is worth it or not.

    The list of displayed tasks has growed over time more and more; there was a time, where the list was limited to 10 entries, currently we have 12 plus the new entry for installing blends.

    What do people think?


    Holger

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 17:20:01 2025
    Hallo Mike,

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2025-05-25):
    I have sort of asked for Lomiri inclusion in tasksel and installer
    here three weeks ago: https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/30#note_609616
    (and below).

    3 weeks ago was already too late to ask for new binary packages per
    freeze policy.

    The missing bit mentioned there has been fixed by Guido directly after my request, so the MR is good to go from the Lomiri packagers' perspective.

    OK, good to know.

    In Lomiri & co themselves, we still have various work items on the list (improving session stability, usability and Debian branding), but this is unrelated to this MR.

    I understand you consider the task ready for prime-time then, which
    wasn't clear to me from skimming over the merge request.

    I also plan to ask the release team for a Debian Edu exception regarding inclusion of an extra bin:pkg education-desktop-lomiri the coming week (unrelated here, just as a side note). The decision regarding Lomiri in tasksel sort of depends on the nature of that education-desktop-lomiri bin:pkg (normally we depend on/recommend the tasksel package and add edu things on top). If there will be no Lomiri tasksel bin:pkg, we will pull in Lomiri packages directly via the education-desktop-lomiri bin:pkg. (Doable, but less preferred).

    OK.

    I might get in touch with the release team regarding the prospective
    addition of 1 to 2 tasks in tasksel, to get some feedback on their side.

    If they're willing to accept it, we can do that. If they aren't, I'm not
    going to fight the decision.

    Similar story on the Phosh thing, which was never even mentioned on this list:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/29

    If we were much earlier in the release cycle, we could consider “work
    in progress” quality tasks, but we're near the end, we would add to introduce new binary packages (which per freeze policy was already forbidden since the previous step), so I'm tempted to call all of this
    too late.

    Don't know anything about Phosh status, but it would probably be good
    to Cc: @agx on this. (Done for this mail).

    Thanks, sorry I got confused by guido+debian@ in Cc already… :/

    Unless someone strongly feels differently, and convinces me to
    rethink this, I'll drop both entries from the wishlist for Trixie.

    I raise my hand here, because I strongly feel different regarding the
    Lomiri part of this mail. Thanks for sending this mail, so there still
    is some chance to turn the wheel (hopefully!).

    Sure thing, that's why I asked in the first place!


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 18:00:01 2025
    Hi,

    Guido Günther <[email protected]> (2025-05-25):
    thanks for adding me in the loop.

    (Sorry for getting confused by the multiple Guido, would have done on my
    own otherwise.)

    As noted in the above merge request I wasn't aware there's a necessity
    to raise it on the list. I would have hoped that opening an issue in
    gitlab is sufficient as the repository looked active.

    (Understood, see my other reply.)

    Same here. I understand that it's late in the cycle but then the
    recent feedback in the MR asking for addition to the Trixie TODO list
    made me believe there's nothing else to do for the moment.

    Just to confirm, you consider the current state of the MR to be
    production ready, and don't anticipate having to tweaks things up
    afterwards, be it in tasksel or in the set of packages that's getting
    pulled by the prospective task?


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Sun May 25 18:20:02 2025
    Hi Cyril,
    On Sun, May 25, 2025 at 05:55:13PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
    Hi,

    Guido G�nther <[email protected]> (2025-05-25):
    thanks for adding me in the loop.

    (Sorry for getting confused by the multiple Guido, would have done on my
    own otherwise.)

    As noted in the above merge request I wasn't aware there's a necessity
    to raise it on the list. I would have hoped that opening an issue in
    gitlab is sufficient as the repository looked active.

    (Understood, see my other reply.)

    Same here. I understand that it's late in the cycle but then the
    recent feedback in the MR asking for addition to the Trixie TODO list
    made me believe there's nothing else to do for the moment.

    Just to confirm, you consider the current state of the MR to be
    production ready, and don't anticipate having to tweaks things up
    afterwards, be it in tasksel or in the set of packages that's getting
    pulled by the prospective task?

    We've been using that package set since some time so I sure hope it's
    o.k. I just pushed a minor change to use phrog instead phog as we
    dropped the later (sine phrog provides phog this is mostly cosmetic).

    Thanks for considering the MR!
    -- Guido



    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Mon May 26 14:00:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Cyril,

    On So 25 Mai 2025 17:18:20 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Hallo Mike,

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2025-05-25):
    I have sort of asked for Lomiri inclusion in tasksel and installer
    here three weeks ago:
    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/merge_requests/30#note_609616
    (and below).

    3 weeks ago was already too late to ask for new binary packages per
    freeze policy.

    Yes. Aware of that.

    I also plan to ask the release team for a Debian Edu exception regarding
    inclusion of an extra bin:pkg education-desktop-lomiri the coming week
    (unrelated here, just as a side note). The decision regarding Lomiri in
    tasksel sort of depends on the nature of that education-desktop-lomiri
    bin:pkg (normally we depend on/recommend the tasksel package and add edu
    things on top). If there will be no Lomiri tasksel bin:pkg, we will pull in >> Lomiri packages directly via the education-desktop-lomiri bin:pkg. (Doable, >> but less preferred).

    OK.

    I might get in touch with the release team regarding the prospective
    addition of 1 to 2 tasks in tasksel, to get some feedback on their side.

    If they're willing to accept it, we can do that. If they aren't, I'm not going to fight the decision.

    Thanks for doing that! Sounds good to me!

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 23:00:01 2025
    [ cc += Guido Günther ]

    Philip Hands <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    Combining this and the Phosh MR[1] ends up looking like this (1024x768):

    https://openqa.debian.net/tests/399843#step/choose_software/1

    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we
    decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the desktop variant? I can understand how hard targeting this or that bit of hardware can be, but I would really expect a desktop environment to have components to figure that out at runtime, instead of having two different
    sets of packages.

    (Thinking out loud, maybe it'd be feasible to skip one of them from d-i,
    but offer it when tasksel runs interactively — not from pkgsel —, so that users can switch from say task-lomiri-desktop to task-lomiri-tablet by
    running tasksel after the install? But if that's mainly about requiring
    fewer packages, as opposed to different core components, I'd think that reinforces my initial assessment: propose Lomiri for desktop, leaving it
    up to tablet users to either skip desktop entirely, then installing the
    -tablet task afterwards, or to buy the whole desktop and call it a day?)


    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list,
    instead of having them pop up at some (seemingly) random locations in the existing, non-sorted list. I'd think that's only a matter of adjusting
    some priority/score/relevance integer that I vaguely remember, though, so
    that should be on the easy side of things.


    Thoughts on both topics? (The first one might be a hard one, the second
    one should be mostly cosmetics?)


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Philip Hands@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Mon May 26 22:40:01 2025
    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> writes:

    At the moment, even if it's been growing as of late, the list doesn't
    strike me as being “too long” (no, I don't have a precise definition for it). Even with two extra desktop entries, the whole list of choices
    would still appear on a single screen, and would be visible without any scrolling. (This is with the graphical installer, on a laptop that's
    sticking to 800×600.)

    Combining this and the Phosh MR[1] ends up looking like this (1024x768):

    https://openqa.debian.net/tests/399843#step/choose_software/1

    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we
    decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    Cheers, Phil.

    [1] https://salsa.debian.org/philh/tasksel/-/commits/new_DEs
    --
    Philip Hands -- https://hands.com/~phil

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  • From Philip Hands@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Mon May 26 23:50:01 2025
    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> writes:

    [ cc += Guido Günther ]

    Philip Hands <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    Combining this and the Phosh MR[1] ends up looking like this (1024x768):

    https://openqa.debian.net/tests/399843#step/choose_software/1

    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we
    decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the desktop variant?

    Makes sense to me -- How well does using D-I on a tablet actually work
    anyway? (There's not much point having the option if it's the case that
    people generally prefer to create an image to flash, or some such)

    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list,

    That would have the (somewhat trivial) benefit of avoiding the need to
    fiddle with the openQA tests for existing desktops.

    They currently include the menu options as a list, and use that to work
    out how often to press `down` to get to the option we want. Having to
    have multiple versions of that table, and then try to work out which
    ordering we're looking at this time, is going to be a little tiresome.

    Of course, if there's a good reason to reorder the existing options,
    then that will need to be done, but if not, let's not :-)

    Cheers, Phil.
    --
    Philip Hands -- https://hands.com/~phil

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  • From Holger Wansing@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Mon May 26 23:30:02 2025
    Hi,

    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> wrote (Mon, 26 May 2025 22:52:22 +0200):
    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    - What happens, if both are installed at the same time? Any harm expected?
    - Is Debian an OS common for touch devices (= tablets)? I personally
    would go with the desktop variant only, if installing both is not good.
    - If we do not install both in parallel (with one entry), I would change to
    something like
    - Lomiri for desktop
    - Lomiri for tablet
    to make clear to the user, what they have to expect.

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the desktop variant? I can understand how hard targeting this or that bit of hardware can be, but I would really expect a desktop environment to have components to figure that out at runtime, instead of having two different sets of packages.

    (Thinking out loud, maybe it'd be feasible to skip one of them from d-i,
    but offer it when tasksel runs interactively — not from pkgsel —, so that users can switch from say task-lomiri-desktop to task-lomiri-tablet by running tasksel after the install? But if that's mainly about requiring
    fewer packages, as opposed to different core components, I'd think that reinforces my initial assessment: propose Lomiri for desktop, leaving it
    up to tablet users to either skip desktop entirely, then installing the -tablet task afterwards, or to buy the whole desktop and call it a day?)


    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list, instead of having them pop up at some (seemingly) random locations in the existing, non-sorted list. I'd think that's only a matter of adjusting
    some priority/score/relevance integer that I vaguely remember, though, so that should be on the easy side of things.

    I think placing such new entries between "LXQt" and "web server"
    (at the bottom of the DE list) would be good and easy to realize.


    Holger

    --
    Holger Wansing <[email protected]>
    PGP-Fingerprint: 496A C6E8 1442 4B34 8508 3529 59F1 87CA 156E B076

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 27 01:50:01 2025
    Holger Wansing <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    - What happens, if both are installed at the same time? Any harm expected?
    - Is Debian an OS common for touch devices (= tablets)? I personally
    would go with the desktop variant only, if installing both is not good.

    All good questions.

    Seeing how adding Phosh would close #593105, it seems we would already
    be gaining support for smartphone/tablet-like hardware, in a different
    way…

    - If we do not install both in parallel (with one entry), I would change to
    something like
    - Lomiri for desktop
    - Lomiri for tablet
    to make clear to the user, what they have to expect.

    (Clear descriptions might make sense in any case?)

    … and depending on your goals on the Lomiri side, maybe we could do the opposite of what I was suggesting earlier: propose something small from
    the installer, and let desktop users “upgrade” their systems by pulling task-lomiri-desktop afterwards if they so chose?

    I think placing such new entries between "LXQt" and "web server"
    (at the bottom of the DE list) would be good and easy to realize.

    Right, that's what I had in mind, thanks for expressing it in a much
    clearer way.

    Having now looked, desktops are defined with:

    Parent: desktop

    then sorted by the Relevance field, possibly then alphabetically. For
    example, both LXDE and LXQt have:

    Relevance: 9

    and are sorted in this order, at the bottom of the desktop list.

    So I'd expect the following to be sufficient to sort things as desired
    (by at least Holger, Philip, and me):

    - For Lomiri (for the single task we would pick):

    -Relevance: 2
    +Relevance: 10

    - For Phosh:

    -Relevance: 8
    +Relevance: 11

    … except I wasn't sure about allowed values and README has:

    If a task is important enough that it should go near the top,
    give it a relevance of 1. If a task is not likely to be
    used, give it a relevance of 9. Default is 5. Relevance can only be a
    single digit.

    so if that's indeed a hard limitation (and we don't want to touch it),
    we might need to renumber things a little.

    - GNOME: 1
    - Xfce: 2
    - GNOME Flashback: 7
    - KDE Plasma: 7
    - Cinnamon: 8
    - MATE: 8
    - LXDE: 9
    - LXQt: 9

    A very quick search suggests supporting 10+ values has been left as a
    todo item:

    # XXX TODO: support correct sorting when
    # Relevance is 10 or more (e.g. package
    # education-tasks).

    so in case that's confirmed to be problematic, moving everyone up (by
    how many units is left as an exercise to the reader) from 7-9 to make
    room at position 9 for both Lomiri and Phosh should work.


    We still need to hear back from the RT in any case.


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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    *
  • From Holger Wansing@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 27 06:20:01 2025
    Hi,

    Am 27. Mai 2025 01:47:15 MESZ schrieb Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]>: >Holger Wansing <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    - What happens, if both are installed at the same time? Any harm expected? >> - Is Debian an OS common for touch devices (= tablets)? I personally
    would go with the desktop variant only, if installing both is not good.

    All good questions.

    However I expect answers not only by you but by lomiri people...

    Seeing how adding Phosh would close #593105, it seems we would already
    be gaining support for smartphone/tablet-like hardware, in a different
    way…

    - If we do not install both in parallel (with one entry), I would change to >> something like
    - Lomiri for desktop
    - Lomiri for tablet
    to make clear to the user, what they have to expect.

    (Clear descriptions might make sense in any case?)

    Since Phosh is a "special case desktop", maybe say " Phosh (for smartphones) ?


    Holger

    --
    Sent from /e/ OS on Fairphone3

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Tue May 27 09:10:01 2025
    Hi,
    On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 10:52:22PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
    [ cc += Guido Günther ]

    Philip Hands <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    Combining this and the Phosh MR[1] ends up looking like this (1024x768):

    https://openqa.debian.net/tests/399843#step/choose_software/1

    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the desktop variant? I can understand how hard targeting this or that bit of hardware can be, but I would really expect a desktop environment to have components to figure that out at runtime, instead of having two different sets of packages.

    (Thinking out loud, maybe it'd be feasible to skip one of them from d-i,
    but offer it when tasksel runs interactively — not from pkgsel —, so that users can switch from say task-lomiri-desktop to task-lomiri-tablet by running tasksel after the install? But if that's mainly about requiring
    fewer packages, as opposed to different core components, I'd think that reinforces my initial assessment: propose Lomiri for desktop, leaving it
    up to tablet users to either skip desktop entirely, then installing the -tablet task afterwards, or to buy the whole desktop and call it a day?)


    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list, instead of having them pop up at some (seemingly) random locations in the existing, non-sorted list. I'd think that's only a matter of adjusting
    some priority/score/relevance integer that I vaguely remember, though, so that should be on the easy side of things.

    Moving it to the bottom works for me. Having it listed at all would be a
    good step forward for people installing on small form factors, tablets,
    etc. as currently they install another DE and switch which often
    confuses new users.

    Although we have a tablet and phone meta package I opted to go
    for the "full" one and just use one entry as that's what most people
    likely want when using d-i.

    Cheers,
    -- Guido



    Thoughts on both topics? (The first one might be a hard one, the second
    one should be mostly cosmetics?)


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Guido =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?=@21:1/5 to Holger Wansing on Tue May 27 09:10:01 2025
    Hi,
    On Tue, May 27, 2025 at 06:14:34AM +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:
    Hi,

    Am 27. Mai 2025 01:47:15 MESZ schrieb Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]>: >Holger Wansing <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    - What happens, if both are installed at the same time? Any harm expected? >> - Is Debian an OS common for touch devices (= tablets)? I personally
    would go with the desktop variant only, if installing both is not good.

    All good questions.

    However I expect answers not only by you but by lomiri people...

    Seeing how adding Phosh would close #593105, it seems we would already
    be gaining support for smartphone/tablet-like hardware, in a different >way…

    - If we do not install both in parallel (with one entry), I would change to
    something like
    - Lomiri for desktop
    - Lomiri for tablet
    to make clear to the user, what they have to expect.

    (Clear descriptions might make sense in any case?)

    Since Phosh is a "special case desktop", maybe say " Phosh (for
    smartphones) ?

    It's not for smart phones only. The package set we're using via tasksel
    is suitable for desktop (e.g. on small form factor use).

    Cheers,
    - Guido



    Holger

    --
    Sent from /e/ OS on Fairphone3


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Philip Hands on Tue May 27 11:10:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi,

    On Mo 26 Mai 2025 23:45:05 CEST, Philip Hands wrote:

    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> writes:

    [ cc += Guido Günther ]

    Philip Hands <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    Combining this and the Phosh MR[1] ends up looking like this (1024x768): >>>
    https://openqa.debian.net/tests/399843#step/choose_software/1

    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we
    decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the
    desktop variant?

    Makes sense to me -- How well does using D-I on a tablet actually work anyway? (There's not much point having the option if it's the case that people generally prefer to create an image to flash, or some such)

    FYI: I install x86 tablet hardware via a docking station with Lomiri.
    Once installed, I plug-off the device and am ready to go.

    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list,

    That would have the (somewhat trivial) benefit of avoiding the need to
    fiddle with the openQA tests for existing desktops.

    ;-)

    They currently include the menu options as a list, and use that to work
    out how often to press `down` to get to the option we want. Having to
    have multiple versions of that table, and then try to work out which
    ordering we're looking at this time, is going to be a little tiresome.

    Of course, if there's a good reason to reorder the existing options,
    then that will need to be done, but if not, let's not :-)

    IMHO, appending as proposed in other mails of this thread is fine. No
    need to fiddle with the openQA tests more than needed.

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Tue May 27 11:00:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Phil, hi Cyril,

    On Mo 26 Mai 2025 22:52:22 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    [ cc += Guido Günther ]

    Philip Hands <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    Combining this and the Phosh MR[1] ends up looking like this (1024x768):

    https://openqa.debian.net/tests/399843#step/choose_software/1

    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    I'd say, we should have 1 Lomiri entry, targetting desktop
    installations for now.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we
    decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the desktop variant?

    Yes, see above.

    I can understand how hard targeting this or that bit of
    hardware can be, but I would really expect a desktop environment to have components to figure that out at runtime, instead of having two different sets of packages.

    Ok.

    (Thinking out loud, maybe it'd be feasible to skip one of them from d-i,
    but offer it when tasksel runs interactively — not from pkgsel —, so that users can switch from say task-lomiri-desktop to task-lomiri-tablet by running tasksel after the install? But if that's mainly about requiring
    fewer packages, as opposed to different core components, I'd think that reinforces my initial assessment: propose Lomiri for desktop, leaving it
    up to tablet users to either skip desktop entirely, then installing the -tablet task afterwards, or to buy the whole desktop and call it a day?)

    Thanks for the loud thinking. How can D-I be tweaked to only show the
    lomiri desktop task, but not the tablet task. (I don't know the
    internal wiring between tasksel and D-I).

    It would be nice to leave the lomiri tablet task in the tasksel
    package while omitting it from D-I. Is that possible?

    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list, instead of having them pop up at some (seemingly) random locations in the existing, non-sorted list. I'd think that's only a matter of adjusting
    some priority/score/relevance integer that I vaguely remember, though, so that should be on the easy side of things.

    Hoping for D-I adepts to have a solution for this. I agree with this
    idea of appending the new kids on the block to the already-used-to-desktop-env-list.

    Thoughts on both topics? (The first one might be a hard one, the second
    one should be mostly cosmetics?)

    Thanks for chiming in on this like you currently do, Cyril!!!

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Holger Wansing on Tue May 27 11:10:02 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Holger, hi all,

    On Mo 26 Mai 2025 23:20:14 CEST, Holger Wansing wrote:

    Hi,

    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> wrote (Mon, 26 May 2025 22:52:22 +0200):
    Lomiri currently appears twice, so that is 3 new entries with Phosh.

    BTW The descriptions for the 2 Lomiri tasks need to be fixed, in order
    to distinguish between the `desktop` and `tablet` variants, unless we
    decided to only offer one of those via tasksel.

    - What happens, if both are installed at the same time? Any harm expected?
    - Is Debian an OS common for touch devices (= tablets)? I personally
    would go with the desktop variant only, if installing both is not good.
    - If we do not install both in parallel (with one entry), I would change to
    something like
    - Lomiri for desktop
    - Lomiri for tablet
    to make clear to the user, what they have to expect.

    The tablet / desktop installation variants of Lomiri are only
    different regarding the set of applications that get pulled in.

    The tablet variant only pulls in Lomiri Apps (like in Ubuntu Touch)
    and other apps if must be. It keeps the set of installed non-Lomiri
    apps as minimal as possible.

    The desktop variant installs much more software (like gimp, an editor, etc.).

    So, the tablet/desktop installation variants are not about hardware recognition etc. Lomiri is supposed to work on desktop (mouse +
    keyboard attached) and tablet (touch, OSK) alike and auto-recognizes
    its hardware profile at runtime (via Lomiri's various convergence
    features).

    Thanks. I think I'd like to have a single entry to start with, maybe the
    desktop variant? I can understand how hard targeting this or that bit of
    hardware can be, but I would really expect a desktop environment to have
    components to figure that out at runtime, instead of having two different
    sets of packages.

    (Thinking out loud, maybe it'd be feasible to skip one of them from d-i,
    but offer it when tasksel runs interactively — not from pkgsel —, so that
    users can switch from say task-lomiri-desktop to task-lomiri-tablet by
    running tasksel after the install? But if that's mainly about requiring
    fewer packages, as opposed to different core components, I'd think that
    reinforces my initial assessment: propose Lomiri for desktop, leaving it
    up to tablet users to either skip desktop entirely, then installing the
    -tablet task afterwards, or to buy the whole desktop and call it a day?)


    I haven't looked at either MRs at the moment, but I think I'd like to
    have the newest additions at the bottom of the desktop (kinda-sub)list,
    instead of having them pop up at some (seemingly) random locations in the
    existing, non-sorted list. I'd think that's only a matter of adjusting
    some priority/score/relevance integer that I vaguely remember, though, so
    that should be on the easy side of things.

    I think placing such new entries between "LXQt" and "web server"
    (at the bottom of the DE list) would be good and easy to realize.

    /me nods on this...

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Tue May 27 11:10:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    On Di 27 Mai 2025 01:47:15 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Holger Wansing <[email protected]> (2025-05-26):
    - What happens, if both are installed at the same time? Any harm expected? >> - Is Debian an OS common for touch devices (= tablets)? I personally
    would go with the desktop variant only, if installing both is not good.

    All good questions.

    Seeing how adding Phosh would close #593105, it seems we would already
    be gaining support for smartphone/tablet-like hardware, in a different
    way…

    - If we do not install both in parallel (with one entry), I would change to >> something like
    - Lomiri for desktop
    - Lomiri for tablet
    to make clear to the user, what they have to expect.

    (Clear descriptions might make sense in any case?)

    I take that as a todo for the !30 tasksel MR...

    … and depending on your goals on the Lomiri side, maybe we could do the opposite of what I was suggesting earlier: propose something small from
    the installer, and let desktop users “upgrade” their systems by pulling task-lomiri-desktop afterwards if they so chose?

    I am good with both approaches. Lomiri itself looks slightly nicer if
    not to overburdened with unnecessary applications in the app launcher.

    So, I tend to prefering the task-lomiri-tablet as a starting point,
    indeed. (Now that I think of it).

    I think placing such new entries between "LXQt" and "web server"
    (at the bottom of the DE list) would be good and easy to realize.

    Right, that's what I had in mind, thanks for expressing it in a much
    clearer way.

    Having now looked, desktops are defined with:

    Parent: desktop

    then sorted by the Relevance field, possibly then alphabetically. For example, both LXDE and LXQt have:

    Relevance: 9

    and are sorted in this order, at the bottom of the desktop list.

    So I'd expect the following to be sufficient to sort things as desired
    (by at least Holger, Philip, and me):

    - For Lomiri (for the single task we would pick):

    -Relevance: 2
    +Relevance: 10

    - For Phosh:

    -Relevance: 8
    +Relevance: 11

    … except I wasn't sure about allowed values and README has:

    If a task is important enough that it should go near the top,
    give it a relevance of 1. If a task is not likely to be
    used, give it a relevance of 9. Default is 5. Relevance can only be a
    single digit.

    so if that's indeed a hard limitation (and we don't want to touch it),
    we might need to renumber things a little.

    - GNOME: 1
    - Xfce: 2
    - GNOME Flashback: 7
    - KDE Plasma: 7
    - Cinnamon: 8
    - MATE: 8
    - LXDE: 9
    - LXQt: 9

    A very quick search suggests supporting 10+ values has been left as a
    todo item:

    # XXX TODO: support correct sorting when
    # Relevance is 10 or more (e.g. package
    # education-tasks).

    so in case that's confirmed to be problematic, moving everyone up (by
    how many units is left as an exercise to the reader) from 7-9 to make
    room at position 9 for both Lomiri and Phosh should work.

    Sounds good to me.

    We still need to hear back from the RT in any case.

    Yep, curious what they (RT) will say? Is there a public communication regarding this?

    Thanks!
    Mike

    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Tue May 27 15:00:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Cyril,

    On Di 27 Mai 2025 03:35:52 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Cyril Brulebois <[email protected]> (2025-05-27):
    … and depending on your goals on the Lomiri side, maybe we could do the
    opposite of what I was suggesting earlier: propose something small from
    the installer, and let desktop users “upgrade” their systems by pulling >> task-lomiri-desktop afterwards if they so chose?

    For now, I've decided to go with Lomiri = the real desktop.

    ok! Fair enough.

    so if that's indeed a hard limitation (and we don't want to touch it),
    we might need to renumber things a little.

    - GNOME: 1
    - Xfce: 2
    - GNOME Flashback: 7
    - KDE Plasma: 7
    - Cinnamon: 8
    - MATE: 8
    - LXDE: 9
    - LXQt: 9

    A very quick search suggests supporting 10+ values has been left as a
    todo item:

    # XXX TODO: support correct sorting when
    # Relevance is 10 or more (e.g. package
    # education-tasks).

    so in case that's confirmed to be problematic, moving everyone up (by
    how many units is left as an exercise to the reader) from 7-9 to make
    room at position 9 for both Lomiri and Phosh should work.

    I've prepared a desktop-integration branch:
    - adjusting the description for the tablet one only:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/commit/c45ed5a55553da4b8eaeade606ff6182844854cb

    LGTM.

    - introducing a test stub to hide the tablet from within the
    installer (only): https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/commit/4f2f6c350701f9630e646afdae60a946645f7c74

    ACK (not sure if I understand this one, but please don't bother explaining)

    - making sure existing desktops stay in the same order while making
    room for new ones: https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/commit/eaa7aa4f174d5cda48f6ef951efff432d5b8841d

    ACK

    - ensuring Lomiri and Phosh are at the bottom: https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/commit/a966e23d3e140bec3b607f8588a4fd385408599c

    ACK

    - documenting what I did:

    https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/tasksel/-/commit/e0a0bc36375281061956fce59c7d9a35764894f9

    This seems to behave as I intended it, see attached screenshots during (grayscaled) and after installation. (Note that I unmarked all tasks
    that had been initially marked for installation, so the empty
    selection in the second screenshot is entirely normal.)

    This looks awesome! In your screenshot (text mode) you still have
    Lomiri + Lomiri on tablet. I think we should just have Lomiri (on
    desktop), as proposed above for now. Having Lomiri more than once
    feels over-spacetaking...

    Would that make sense for Lomiri people? Or would you prefer another
    approach regarding the full vs. tablet Lomiri tasks?

    No, this looks really good. Go ahead + BIG THANKS!!!!

    We still need to hear back from the RT in any case.

    Still true.

    Hope they agree on having this. It would be a pain with all the work
    that went into your (and Guido Berhörster's work). Thanks once more,
    this is much appreciated!!!

    Mike


    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 27 15:50:02 2025
    Hi,

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2025-05-27):
    This looks awesome! In your screenshot (text mode) you still have Lomiri + Lomiri on tablet. I think we should just have Lomiri (on desktop), as proposed above for now. Having Lomiri more than once feels over-spacetaking...

    Sorry if that wasn't clear: that's not the installer in text mode (which
    would present the same choices as the graphical one), that's tasksel run manually after logging into the installed system. Basically covering the
    second part of one of your first replies:

    Thanks for the loud thinking. How can D-I be tweaked to only show
    the lomiri desktop task, but not the tablet task. (I don't know the
    internal wiring between tasksel and D-I).

    → new-tasksel-during.png (tasksel started by pkgsel, in d-i)

    It would be nice to leave the lomiri tablet task in the tasksel
    package while omitting it from D-I. Is that possible?

    → new-tasksel-after.png (tasksel started manually, outside d-i)

    If you prefer omitting it from tasksel entirely, requiring prospective
    users to `apt-get install` the task, that's entirely possible… that's
    just not what I was proposing, and not was I understood you were asking
    for. :)

    Would that make sense for Lomiri people? Or would you prefer another approach regarding the full vs. tablet Lomiri tasks?

    No, this looks really good. Go ahead + BIG THANKS!!!!

    Thanks to both teams for confirming!

    We still need to hear back from the RT in any case.

    Still true.

    Hope they agree on having this. It would be a pain with all the work
    that went into your (and Guido Berhörster's work). Thanks once more,
    this is much appreciated!!!

    The work will still be there for sid and forky in any case, so nothing
    would be lost. :)


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Tue May 27 16:30:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Cyril,

    On Di 27 Mai 2025 15:43:32 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Hi,

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2025-05-27):
    This looks awesome! In your screenshot (text mode) you still have Lomiri + >> Lomiri on tablet. I think we should just have Lomiri (on desktop), as
    proposed above for now. Having Lomiri more than once feels
    over-spacetaking...

    Sorry if that wasn't clear: that's not the installer in text mode (which would present the same choices as the graphical one), that's tasksel run manually after logging into the installed system. Basically covering the second part of one of your first replies:

    Thanks for the loud thinking. How can D-I be tweaked to only show
    the lomiri desktop task, but not the tablet task. (I don't know the
    internal wiring between tasksel and D-I).

    → new-tasksel-during.png (tasksel started by pkgsel, in d-i)

    It would be nice to leave the lomiri tablet task in the tasksel
    package while omitting it from D-I. Is that possible?

    → new-tasksel-after.png (tasksel started manually, outside d-i)

    If you prefer omitting it from tasksel entirely, requiring prospective
    users to `apt-get install` the task, that's entirely possible… that's
    just not what I was proposing, and not was I understood you were asking
    for. :)

    Very cool! I like it! Thanks for explaining!

    We still need to hear back from the RT in any case.

    Still true.

    Hope they agree on having this. It would be a pain with all the work
    that went into your (and Guido Berhörster's work). Thanks once more,
    this is much appreciated!!!

    The work will still be there for sid and forky in any case, so nothing
    would be lost. :)

    Would be nice to see this land in trixie, though. Keeping fingers crossed!

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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  • From Cyril Brulebois@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 28 23:30:01 2025
    Hi,

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2025-05-27):
    On Di 27 Mai 2025 15:43:32 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
    The work will still be there for sid and forky in any case, so
    nothing would be lost. :)

    Would be nice to see this land in trixie, though. Keeping fingers crossed!

    Unfortunately, that wasn't sufficient.

    Besides the timing, and assuming I got the picture right, considering
    those additions would require:

    (1) extending the set of key packages, which the release team is
    (quite rightfully I think) reluctant to consider at this late
    stage of the release cycle.

    or:

    (2) adjusting the logic that computes that set automatically, to
    special case the new packages, which wouldn't feel much better…


    You can find more details in the small thread on the debian-release@
    list (6 mails total as of right now):
    https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2025/05/msg01153.html


    Cheers,
    --
    Cyril Brulebois ([email protected]) <https://debamax.com/>
    D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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  • From Mike Gabriel@21:1/5 to Cyril Brulebois on Thu May 29 08:30:01 2025
    This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed.

    Hi Cyril,

    On Mi 28 Mai 2025 23:27:27 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

    Hi,

    Mike Gabriel <[email protected]> (2025-05-27):
    On Di 27 Mai 2025 15:43:32 CEST, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
    The work will still be there for sid and forky in any case, so
    nothing would be lost. :)

    Would be nice to see this land in trixie, though. Keeping fingers crossed!

    Unfortunately, that wasn't sufficient.

    Besides the timing, and assuming I got the picture right, considering
    those additions would require:

    (1) extending the set of key packages, which the release team is
    (quite rightfully I think) reluctant to consider at this late
    stage of the release cycle.

    or:

    (2) adjusting the logic that computes that set automatically, to
    special case the new packages, which wouldn't feel much better…


    You can find more details in the small thread on the debian-release@
    list (6 mails total as of right now):
    https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2025/05/msg01153.html

    Thanks for giving it a try. I fully understand Paul's reasoning on
    this and the timing was in deed last-minute. Looking forward to seeing
    lomiri in Debian Installer for Debian 14.

    Mike
    --

    mike gabriel aka sunweaver (Debian Developer)
    mobile: +49 (1520) 1976 148
    landline: +49 (4351) 486 14 27

    GnuPG Fingerprint: 9BFB AEE8 6C0A A5FF BF22 0782 9AF4 6B30 2577 1B31
    mail: [email protected], http://sunweavers.net


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