• Re: Reasoning from first principles --- AKA starting from scratch

    From Mr Flibble@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Aug 9 17:50:23 2025
    On Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:36:38 -0500, olcott wrote:

    On 8/9/2025 11:13 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 16:45, olcott wrote:
    On 8/9/2025 8:10 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 13:56, olcott wrote:
    If you try to think of it as a black box then you are unable to see
    that DD calls HHH(DD) in recursive simulation that cannot reach its
    own "if" statement thus making the "do the opposite" code
    unreachable.

    No, you can have all the recurive calls you like to DD from inside
    HHH, but that's neither here nor there. That's black box stuff.
    Nobody cares about all that shit - except you, of course.


    The only reason that nobody cares is that they only care about
    rebuttal at the expense of truth.

    No, they don't care because it truly doesn't matter.
    Refuting the proof of the most important computer science theorem that
    exists does matter.

    That people are unwilling to use first principles https://fs.blog/first-principles/

    And prefer to only start on the basis of misconceptions is their error.

    What if the definition of the halting problem is found to be
    inconsistent with other key principles of the theory of computation?

    Your fundamental error:

    In x86utm, H simulates D(D), detects the nested recursion as non-halting, aborts, and returns 0 (non-halting). But when D(D) runs for real:

    * It calls H(D,D).
    * H simulates, aborts the simulation (not the real execution), and returns
    0 (non-halting).
    * D, receiving 0 (non-halting), halts.

    Thus, the actual machine D(D) halts, but H reported "does not halt". H is
    wrong about the machine's behavior.

    /Flibble

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Heathfield@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Aug 9 19:23:01 2025
    On 09/08/2025 18:36, olcott wrote:
    On 8/9/2025 11:13 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 16:45, olcott wrote:
    On 8/9/2025 8:10 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 13:56, olcott wrote:
    If you try to think of it as a black box then you
    are unable to see that DD calls HHH(DD) in recursive
    simulation that cannot reach its own "if" statement
    thus making the "do the opposite" code unreachable.

    No, you can have all the recurive calls you like to DD from
    inside HHH, but that's neither here nor there. That's black
    box stuff. Nobody cares about all that shit - except you, of
    course.


    The only reason that nobody cares is that they
    only care about rebuttal at the expense of truth.

    No, they don't care because it truly doesn't matter.
    Refuting the proof of the most important computer
    science theorem that exists does matter.

    Had you done so, yes, absolutely.

    But you haven't.

    What if the definition of the halting problem is
    found to be inconsistent with other key principles
    of the theory of computation?

    One pipe-dream at a time, eh?

    --
    Richard Heathfield
    Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)